Are we too helpful?
- Thread starter M00ka
- Start date
It should be the moderators who chime in with advice and help for newbies.
If it's not from a moderator, then it's bad advice and most likely not helpful.
That's why they are here, right?
To those just arriving, take a trip to Hutton Orbital and get your free Anaconda and Cobra IV (for those who still want one)
Or
Post a helpful video of what happened to you.
If it's not from a moderator, then it's bad advice and most likely not helpful.
That's why they are here, right?
To those just arriving, take a trip to Hutton Orbital and get your free Anaconda and Cobra IV (for those who still want one)
Or
Post a helpful video of what happened to you.
Get the whip out Bottom!I vote for the first option - tell the basics, not the workarounds. And I won't abuse you, unless you really want me to?!
Interesting point.
It's what's usually called "received wisdom".
It's why you used to get tribes who wouldn't go into a forest and why maps used to have "here be dragons" printed on them.
As a rule, when I offer advice I try to answer the person's question and provide a more efficient alternative (if I know of one).
There's nothing wrong with "teaching a man to fish" but if there's a fish factory nearby it'd be a bit mean to not tell him about that too.... metaphorically speaking.
I recall, a couple of years ago, many toys were thrown out of prams when INARA and EDDB "went on strike" for a few days.
I guess that suggests we all rely on taking shortcuts to some extent or another.
When it comes to offering in-game assistance, I'd like to think I'm teaching a person stuff when I do it.
Also, it's kind of a selfish thing, for me, cos I genuinely enjoy pottering about doing co-op stuff.
Also, if you're going to wing up with somebody to teach them how to do a thing, that's what they learn to do and it seems like that should be a good thing, if they're learning that the way to get things done is to cooperate.
I think that the views of the OP seem a little blinkered towards help asked resulting in 'get it easy & quick' responders.
From what I've seen in the forum's, whenever a question is asked then there has nearly always been a mixed response in answers given by cmdrs.
Yes, there are response's given that give the 'easiest', 'quickest', 'most profitable' way to a solution, but there is always more detailed responses at time's explaining exactly what's happening & various ways to achieve what the poster is asking.
Also bear in mind that this is actually the Dangerous Discussion section of the forum. There is & always has been a Newcomers section - one which I used a lot in the early stages of the game, six years ago, before moving on to the 'big boys' DD forum, once I got used to playing ED.
Although I speak for myself here, as I've not been on the Newcomer Section for year's, I would think that a new inexperienced cmdr should probably be using the Newcomer Section, rather than this (more advanced?) Discussion section, for questions around the basics of playing.
From what I've seen in the forum's, whenever a question is asked then there has nearly always been a mixed response in answers given by cmdrs.
Yes, there are response's given that give the 'easiest', 'quickest', 'most profitable' way to a solution, but there is always more detailed responses at time's explaining exactly what's happening & various ways to achieve what the poster is asking.
Also bear in mind that this is actually the Dangerous Discussion section of the forum. There is & always has been a Newcomers section - one which I used a lot in the early stages of the game, six years ago, before moving on to the 'big boys' DD forum, once I got used to playing ED.
Although I speak for myself here, as I've not been on the Newcomer Section for year's, I would think that a new inexperienced cmdr should probably be using the Newcomer Section, rather than this (more advanced?) Discussion section, for questions around the basics of playing.
Is there too much "hand-holding" and "spoon feeding"?
Maybe.
Do you want to learn on your own, ask for help at every turn or somewhere in-between. IMHO, learning by doing your own research and use that to trial and error your game development is a better learning process and sharpens your play. If you're truly stumped, there's no shame in asking for help.
There are mean-spirited responses to game help requests, that's never going to stop, it's ingrained in some people.
A warning message should pop up when anyone joins the forum,
"RIDICULE AND INSULTING CONTENT MAY BE PRESENT IN RESPONSES TO YOUR POSTS!"
And of course, truly bad behavior is unacceptable and reports should follow.
How do want to play? Your choice.
Maybe.
Do you want to learn on your own, ask for help at every turn or somewhere in-between. IMHO, learning by doing your own research and use that to trial and error your game development is a better learning process and sharpens your play. If you're truly stumped, there's no shame in asking for help.
There are mean-spirited responses to game help requests, that's never going to stop, it's ingrained in some people.
A warning message should pop up when anyone joins the forum,
"RIDICULE AND INSULTING CONTENT MAY BE PRESENT IN RESPONSES TO YOUR POSTS!"
And of course, truly bad behavior is unacceptable and reports should follow.
How do want to play? Your choice.
Umm I haven't seen anyone NOT be helpful, in fact the point of this thread is people being TOO helpful.
Many players look for assistance on the Forum. Many who have found shortcuts often reply. Those looking for shortcuts are happy. Easier than some player writing two pages over and over again how to play the game normally with every other new player asking the same questions.
Then there is this guy (and others) with lots of videos to do exactly that. ED is a sandbox designed with a lot of MAJOR 3rd party support. Finding that support takes a lot more browsing than just a question on the Forum. What I like about CMDR Exigeous (this guy) is that he will show you what you need to prepare for any ED play style. But then you still have to play it!
Regards
Then there is this guy (and others) with lots of videos to do exactly that. ED is a sandbox designed with a lot of MAJOR 3rd party support. Finding that support takes a lot more browsing than just a question on the Forum. What I like about CMDR Exigeous (this guy) is that he will show you what you need to prepare for any ED play style. But then you still have to play it!
Regards
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This game has two types of players:
Those who find out for themselves and view mistakes and learning as fun.
Those who seek the reward but not the mistakes that go with it.
I will help anyone the first group, but but not the second. The problem a lot of the time is people are too willing to help the second group who get 'the thing', lose it stupidly and cry, never actually learning or grow.
Those who find out for themselves and view mistakes and learning as fun.
Those who seek the reward but not the mistakes that go with it.
I will help anyone the first group, but but not the second. The problem a lot of the time is people are too willing to help the second group who get 'the thing', lose it stupidly and cry, never actually learning or grow.
No?
It's not moderators job to give game advice, but keep discussion in check, whatever the topic.
Maybe dont act like you know whats good for all newbies. there is not just 2 types. There is a LOT more different kinds...
All advice can be valuable, it depends on what you take out from it as a person, but you cant know what person is gonna take what out so you can only share your own experience, be it helpfull or not.
I can only repeat that this forum is a minority, specially newbies.. Its good for google searches, tho
All advice can be valuable, it depends on what you take out from it as a person, but you cant know what person is gonna take what out so you can only share your own experience, be it helpfull or not.
I can only repeat that this forum is a minority, specially newbies.. Its good for google searches, tho
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Personally, I try to be as unhelpful as possible. If more people do that, maybe it'll balance out.
Help someone or don't, being too helpful is just a nonsense.
I agree there is something lost with feeding the newbies the late-game stuff right at the start, which is why myself I pretty avoided anything even remotely walkthrough-esque early on.
But I think everything about engineering is balls so I don't think any newbs will miss it.
But I think everything about engineering is balls so I don't think any newbs will miss it.
You missed one big factor out of your equation - not your fault as you could never fully know the answer - that is the mindset of the person asking the question! Being helpful should never be looked on negatively. If someone is genuinely stuck with something (even if having a brain-fart moment), then to help them is a good thing to do.
The big factor is the person asking for help, have they tried to find things themselves first? Have they got the wrong idea of the journey they are supposed to take, as part of the game? Are they the type of player that wants everything now?
All questions you asked in your OP - but is still down to the person asking the question - not the one offering the help.
There's a lot of info out there and as has already been said, not all of it good. I scan the websites, hell I have a whole page of short cuts to pages full of info (in a sick sort of way, just seeing how much there is to learn makes me think what a great adventure I'm part of).
But sometimes nothing will beat going to a forum and asking the grizzly old Cmdrs their advice (in as up to date - real time as possible). I never expect, but do hope for help - the forums have been a great experience for me and I hope that other new players (and those further into the game) will find them just as helpful.
Building a great community is what helps a game remain great! <O
The big factor is the person asking for help, have they tried to find things themselves first? Have they got the wrong idea of the journey they are supposed to take, as part of the game? Are they the type of player that wants everything now?
All questions you asked in your OP - but is still down to the person asking the question - not the one offering the help.
There's a lot of info out there and as has already been said, not all of it good. I scan the websites, hell I have a whole page of short cuts to pages full of info (in a sick sort of way, just seeing how much there is to learn makes me think what a great adventure I'm part of).
But sometimes nothing will beat going to a forum and asking the grizzly old Cmdrs their advice (in as up to date - real time as possible).
I never expect, but do hope for help - the forums have been a great experience for me and I hope that other new players (and those further into the game) will find them just as helpful.Building a great community is what helps a game remain great! <O
Deleted member 182079
D
Well said.
I learned my lesson 'befriending' a noob near the starter systems, answered a number of questions and eventually sent a friend request to meet up with them to give them a few tons of Platinum to help them upgrade their Sidewinder (I don't believe in showering new players with too many gifts).
Since then, they kept bombarding me with queries, with an at times noticeable tone of frustration. At some point, they proclaimed "is this it with the game? It's a bit boring, lol" - after I spent a good bit of 30 minutes trying to help them, something of a luxury I didn't have when I started the game and made all sorts of stupid mistakes, that I learned from every time.
Swiftly unfriended that player and I will leave noobs to their own devices now (exceptions depending on the situation aside of course) - certainly not going to be too quick adding them to my FL so that I may be mistaken as some sort of 24/7 helpline at their service.
Well you will never be accused of being too help here in the forums
Not at all. Moderators are here to keep the Forum clean and positive. Maybe in their personal play styles they can help and in others not so much. They are players like you and me. I suspect that they cannot be the best ED PvP players in the game because they are too busy moderating the Forum with so much salt.
But loving ED many volunteered to help us only players. Moderators should have our respect in a world that seems to be going nuts at the moment.
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