Would it kill them to bring the mission objective into existence as soon as you do your initial scan in-system? I genuinely don't believe so.
Little things that break immersion and world integrity.
- Thread starter rootsrat
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Would it kill them to bring the mission objective into existence as soon as you do your initial scan in-system? I genuinely don't believe so.
I would imagine the base (or whatever it is) needs to be on a relatively level area of planet surface and I suspect the part of the Stellar Forge client code which runs to generate the contours and terrain is only run on demand (i.e. it's not about to generate the terrain for every square inch of every planet in the system when you first do the scan ... that would takes many minutes ... it's the same reason why those geo/bio scans take quite a long time to produce their definitive results).
Yes, and I hate that bit too, as you can catch it out.
I have also stopped doing planetary missions since the search change re. needing to hover around the drop point until the target moves. It's just irritating, and that combined with the obvious RNG nature ruined my enjoyment of those missions. I do one every now and again, and then realise why I stopped!
It really shouldn't be difficult to spawn the location as soon as the commander enters the system, and have actual search mechanics to narrow it down (geological/biological signals need to be calculated - no reason similar logic couldn't apply to search sites). I hope FD do revisit this.
Well lets hope that, with the overhaul of the Cobra Engine needed for Odyssey, they have managed to overcome these limitations.....because these mission types require a massive shot in the arm.
Not a programmer but I'm beginning to think the engine overhaul is not quite as far reaching as people imagine:
No caves or overhangs on planets
Still no comets
NPCs cant get into vehicles (are there even NPC controlled SRVs?)
HUD colours still colour locked
From what I've seen so far it feels like more bolted on mechanics than an actual refresh. Like, if you're rebuilding wouldn't you make sure that things like locked colours and terrain heightmaps would be first in line for an overhaul. Plus, NPCs being an actual new thing in the game you'd ensure they could do as much as possible (like being able to get in an SRV and drive it around) like GTA3 did back in 2001.
I’m coming to the same conclusion. Sad, isn’t it?
rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
Considering the planet surfaces will get even more complex and sophisticated... well. But let's hope they've thought of that aspect when they were coding it in
Without remotely meaning to white knight or have a go I do just have to say that I think people sometimes take for granted the fact that Elite's Stellar Forge software (which is running on our local PC - it's not some software service running on a monster central server) is generating an entire galaxy, from the stellar systems we see in the system map right down to every inch of the surface of every planet we land on (including the placement of individual rocks), pretty much in real time (with a few well hidden loading screens), every time we play (the data is not stored anywhere, it's being regenerated from a pseudo random seed every time). That's an absolutely stunning achievement. Personally, I'd be cautious about referring to any short cuts they've had to employ to make this possible as "limitations". If Odyssey doesn't improve this basic stuff one jot I will try to remind myself of all this and remain impressed.
I thought offline mode had been cancelled before release because it was running on a central server?
rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
It was due to some transactions happening server-side. But this is quite an off topic for this thread, so please can we can back on it?
Thanks.
![[VR] Marrs](https://d2aefvhu2f0gi9.cloudfront.net/data/avatars/m/79/79007.jpg?1634042868){kind=avatar}
It always breaks my immersion when a passenger you've been carrying for hundreds or even thousands of light years to marvel at some spectacular stellar phenomenon looks out of the window for a few seconds and then says 'Right, I've seen enough. Let's go back'.
Also, why would a pirate bother to text you before attacking you? Makes no sense.
Also, why would a pirate bother to text you before attacking you? Makes no sense.
I heard it is or at least was FPS locked too, getting the geo sites and whatnot on the FSS zoom scan, so that if for example you use v-sync it can take longer generating them. I haven't tested this out for myself, though I do use v-sync to keep a reasonible workload for my aging SLIed GPUs.
Don't you wish that when you arrive at a post office, and the queue is like 26 people long, and each of them is an elderly person paying for parcel deliveries using loose change, and you're looking at the clock thinking, oh holy balls got to be back at work in 15 mins... (don't have anything against the elderly btw)... That you wonder what it'd be like if the post office was like ED? You walk out, walk back in to another instance, and there's suddenly no one in the queue.. you quickly dispatch your parcel, have enough time to pop in to Pret and stop off Taylor Street for a coffee on the way back! I think that would be a huge QOL improvement! But in ED, it's a little immersion dulling.
Hmm... I guess the servers could do a recent instancing tag check to try and get you reconnected to the same ones, but generally people seem to like to re-instance intentionally. Persistent instances with no one in them might add a bit too much overhead though. Yes, it is a bit meta, but then the game seems somewhat built around being a bit meta too.
I remember some people defending the game on this count, saying that higher tier NPCs are already in the game in the form of faction contacts, Engineers and Powerplay leaders. I can see how you might shoehorn them into those categories given a broad enough definition and sufficient mental gymnastics, but interactive fixed POIs with avatars sure as hell aren't in the spirit of what was talked about in the DDF.
When I can randomly bump into a previous contact in the Space Lounge and have them recognise me, that's when I'll believe there are persistent NPCs.
I always figured it was a bug rather than a design change, especially given that the reticle sometimes gets "stuck" in its "broken" configuration. If it's a deliberate change then I can't imagine what FD were thinking, although nothing would surprise me to be fair. Sometimes they do seem to be playing by a unique rulebook when it comes to design.
I still enjoy those planetary scan missions but the constant headcanoning can be exhausting.
Some more 'immersion problems' since thinking on my first post...
SRV
Passengers
Stations
Language
Supercruise and Hyperspace
Ranks and Reputation
Fleet Carriers and Ship Transport
World Building
Long, long list. Some of it less relevant than others, but I tried to stick to 'immersion' related stuff rather just spout off the laundry list of balance. Hard to separate the two, sometimes, but there really is a lot in Elite that doesn't make much sense and has very little to do with game balance.
Granted, there's even more in Elite that is game balance related, but there's a whole forum for that, right?
SRV
- Why do rocks compromise the chassis when I have a shield? I can belly-flop a many-ton starship and not get a scratch, but a rock half-the-size of my first wheel can shave off 20% hull while my shields can eat multiple plasma blasts from a pursuing Python.
- I have two lamp settings and night vision, but my turret doesn't have a lamp to see what it's aiming at. More importantly, when in the black and exploring (and thus not shooting much), having that lamp would be very helpful just for seeing things above or below me, particularly in canyons, without the use of night vision.
Passengers
- Why do tourists (Tour-the-Galaxy) almost exclusively fly in economy? Given the payouts and the nature of the mission, I would think they expect at least business class.
- Why do bulk pasengers ask for goods on obviously 'catch-a-ride' missions...but tourists, who realistically like to make extra stops and shop, don't?
- Why did Saud Kruger invent a unique, high-end cabin for a non-existent passenger class?
- Why do refugees aboard burning stations care what class cabin you're putting them in? They're literally dying to get off that station.
- Why do slavers offer so little for your passengers when they are worth so much on the market?
- A 747 Airliner can hold over 400 passengers, but the Beluga Liner (some six times or more larger in volume and length) can only hold a maximum of 184. Why do passenger counts in Elite make so little sense?
- Since we can get to Beagle Point and back in a matter of days, and anywhere in the bubble in a matter of minutes, why do cabins all have beds anyways? Why aren't there two kinds of cabins, one for deep-space / multi-day trips, and what we would expect of passenger transports (rows of seats and some luggage storage)?
Stations
- Why do I get the traffic warning when flying a Beluga Liner, Federal Corvette, or other large ship, and a small NPC buzzs me?
- Why don't NPCs acknowledge me coming and going, but they acknowledge each other?
- Why doesn't station security scan me every time I come and go? The mail slot only fits, like, three ships. It can't be that hard to do their job.
- Why doesn't station security find it odd I'm running cold / silent running and rescind my docking privileges on the grounds of safety?
- Why do black markets exist at law-abiding stations, rather than at outposts or other locations that would - sensibly - hide from the law better?
- Why do pirate factions have an office in the same station as the factions they regularly pillage, murder, and attack?
Language
- Does the Elite Universe have a unified language, or like a universal translator software? It makes sense for flight operations (such as landing), but I've wondered why I don't encounter stations - or NPCs, friend or foe - speaking in a language I don't understand. Would make for interesting immersion, so more suggestion than a problem.
- Given the value of a credit - and how it takes so few to buy a starship - why do pirates complain of children going hungry when 1 ton of the cheapest commodity in the universe can probably pay for a year's worth of food for a family?
- Why do wedding barges never announce actual vows?
- Why are cruise liners the only commercial broadcasts on the local channel? Does nobody sell other services, like to see a sporting event, or get a free FSD flush with purchase of a new Class C Distributor or better, or some such?
- Why do tourist beacons in the black have tens or more ships at them, but you never encounter tourist liners - or other explorers in general - ever?
[*]Why doesn't anybody ever talk about the Powerplay factions? Do we even know what they are fighting for/over? Why are these titans of the universe never mentioned, even at their HQ stations, just occasionally shown on a billboard for marketing? - Why do I get gravity warnings for my SRV, but not my ship when entering atmosphere of very high or very low gravity worlds? The ship is a far more valuable asset, no?
Supercruise and Hyperspace
- Why does it take so long to travel at Supercruise compared to Hyperspace? They're the same drive system, right? I can see this either way: Hyperspace should take a lot longer, or Supercruise should be a lot shorter, or some better balance between those two. Is this why passenger cabins with beds exist?
- Why doesn't my ship has no thrusters in Supercruise? How does it maneuver? Why do I have cool engine colors, but can't see them when I have time to marvel at my ship?
- Why do signatures have the same sort of gravitational field as a planet, requiring a careful approach even though the signature is just a ship, quite possibly weighing even less than mine?
- How come when an enemy escapes me at very low hull, when I find them in supercruise, they're fully repaired already? Also, after interdicting them - again - if they had a wing I destroyed in our first match, why is it suddenly alive?
- Why do distress calls come up as unknown signals? Wouldn't my ship recognize a distress call without requiring calibration?
- Why does Witch Space look the same no matter what region of the galaxy I'm in? Why do I fly by thousands of stars on a 5ly jump?
- Why doesn't my ship cooldown during the hyperspace jump, but it does during Supercruise?
Ranks and Reputation
- Why does nobody care what my rank is, anywhere? I'm a Rear Admiral in the Federal Navy...but no federal station, new or previously visited, ever acknowledges my extensive service record, or the fact I'm flying one of their naval craft.
- Why do missions givers give me Elite-ranked missions when I'm not Elite...or even near the rank of Elite? Applies to all three career types.
- Why is my combat rank the only rank displayed on the station UI? I was an Elite Trader and Elite Explorer for over a year before I got beyond Competent in combat.
- Why don't any stations, NPCs, or mission givers acknowledge my publicly known rank? What is the point of my rank if nobody in the galaxy cares about it?
- Why does my SLF pilot rank up faster than me? They're just flying an overpowered and easily remanufactured sidewinder?
- Why do two of the careers care about credits earned (granted, in tiny quantities) but Combat doesn't care how many credits have been earned as a (checks notes) freelance mercenary pilot? Why do only kills matter?
- Why does delivering space-mail reward more reputation for a faction than taking on an elite assassin, hauling hundreds of tons, or infiltrating a planetary installation without tripping the alarm?
- Why do stations acknowledge me as being 'welcome' if I have high reputation with the owning faction, but couldn't care less if I arrive with a high rank in their owning Superpower?
Fleet Carriers and Ship Transport
- Why are there so many I filter them off my nav panel just to see what I'm actually looking for? Do system authorities not restrict the quanitity of capital class ships in their space? Seems like a pretty big liability...
- Why are Fleet Carriers touted as an excellent platform of commerce for the veteran commander...but lack any means to broadcast what, if anything, they are selling?
- If the demand for ship transport is so high, why aren't there more NPC capital ships offering ferry services like those to the Guardian sites? Seems like a missed opportunity.
- Why does it cost more than the ship's actual value to pay a taxi service to move it? Why not just the rebuy cost and a minor fee in case they do, somehow, get it blown up?
- Why doesn't a fleet carrier acknowledge me as a friend of the owner? For that matter...why doesn't it acknowledge the owner?
World Building
- Why aren't there any shipyards for the major manufacturers?
- Why can't I visit the showroom for my preferred manufacturer and see their latest and greatest models?
- Who makes the universal modules for these ships, and why do we never hear about them?
- Why do the HQ systems of Powerplay have nothing in them to indicate that they are, well, the HQ systems? (Aside from a tourist beacon?)
- Why do the engineer bases all look unique, but use the same automated flight system for docking and landing?
Long, long list. Some of it less relevant than others, but I tried to stick to 'immersion' related stuff rather just spout off the laundry list of balance. Hard to separate the two, sometimes, but there really is a lot in Elite that doesn't make much sense and has very little to do with game balance.
Granted, there's even more in Elite that is game balance related, but there's a whole forum for that, right?
You may be underestimating the sheer size of a star system by a bit, if you believe a few dozen fleet carriers would create some kind of congestion in space... Anyway, great post!
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Why do many of the ships look like they were designed without knowledge that a holographic HUD was going to be installed?
And why are there useless blinky lights and other misc dashboard features?
And why are there useless blinky lights and other misc dashboard features?
Additional Fuel Tanks. Why can't we enable/disable them?
Why can't I fly my ship with an extra full or empty tank, for use at a later time?
Fuel tanks that you can switch between is a pretty normal thing IRL.
It is odd that when my ship blows up I keep all my engineering materials and stored blueprints and lose my cartographic data.
Why can't I fly my ship with an extra full or empty tank, for use at a later time?
Fuel tanks that you can switch between is a pretty normal thing IRL.
It is odd that when my ship blows up I keep all my engineering materials and stored blueprints and lose my cartographic data.
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This thread has been running for nearly three years now and while its a great thread to list ideas and frustrations, ultimately it seems like none of these issues will ever be addressed by the ED devs. I think we all love playing ED but these little things just gnaw away at you each session you play and make you wonder why they don't at least address some of the low hanging fruit that would require minimal dev work and could be fixed relatively quickly. I wondering if the reason lies in the fact that the developers and the ED team more generally probably just don't get to play or enjoy the game the way we do. We get to just log in and enjoy the end product. Kind of like cooking dinner for a group of people or being cooked for! We know overall its great and appreciate the effort, but fixing the little things would make it exceptional. I'm wondering if what we really need is a user ideas voting type forum, something like UseResponse, Fider, UserVoice etc. We could list out and focus on only those ideas that we think would require the least amount of development time. The community could then vote on these ideas and the dev team would be able to see clearly what small changes users want. Admittedly it would be hard for us non-devs to determine what would require minimal coding but surely something like stopping the search zones from moving around or popping into existence when you get there would classify as a small thing. Id even be happy to pay for a cloud hosting tool if it meant we could finally get some of these small things fixed that have been breaking immersion for years on end. Sure, the big things like space legs, landing on atmospheric worlds etc are great, but its the little things that are experienced every session that endear players to the game and make them advocates for it. In many respects these small things are more important than the big features.