Bounty idea for gankers

[alexzk]

What I'm saying is - there are people who arrange PvP duels. How do you implement your ideas without affecting their game negatively?

I already said that couple posts ago - implement pvp system like lineage 2 had (google la2/pvp/pk). It best fits elite, as we have half of it here already - anybody can attack anybody.
It is 3 states system. When you start be aggressive - you get flagged, so now you can be killed by anybody. Anybody who attacks you gets flagged too as he do aggression as well. - so keep dueling.
If you kill NOT flagged for any reason - you get "red state" = PK. Since now anybody can kill you and will NOT get flagged. Also until you're in PK state you may drop your stuff (no rebuy). Any kill you do being in PK state just adds strength to it.
In LA2 you may cleanse PK by dying or killing mobs. If you did 10 kills in row, then you will have to kill top mobs for 30 mins.
Also LA2 has only growing PK counter (special quest does -1 - 5 random to it), which is multiplier to PK-state effect, i.e. if u have counter 1000, u will have to spend a month to clean up state or so.

Flagged state in LA2 remains 2 mins since last aggressive action.
Also since 2007 LA2 has duels. Kill is not allowed by system and everything is restored at the end instead death.

 

[Sucette]

So basically you want to force people who want to do pvp to do pve.
Talk about "people who force their play style on mine"
Not even reacting to the "ganking is very bad and a problem so let's gank the gankers" (something I don't have a problem with, but be honest and admit "because ganking is in fact fun and not a problem")

 

[Deleted member 182079]

So it's basically like a karma system then?

 

[alexzk]

So basically you want to force people who want to do pvp to do pve.
Talk about "people who force their play style on mine"
Not even reacting to the "ganking is very bad and a problem so let's gank the gankers" (something I don't have a problem with, but be honest and admit "because ganking is in fact fun and not a problem")

Yes, they may do pvp with other people who want pvp or face consequences.
Because now system works in reverse u say, pvp killers want everybody to be a victims. They don't really seek fair fight, they just want kills.
I just want balanced. If you force somebody to be a victim - face consequences that you may lose all at once too.

 

[alexzk]

So it's basically like a karma system then?

Yes, it's even called Karma until it is not-zero u're in PK state.

 

[Sucette]

I just want balanced. If you force somebody to be a victim - face consequences that you may lose all at once too.

You don't want balance. The "victim" lose nothing beside rebuy

 

[alexzk]

You don't want balance. The "victim*" lose nothing beside rebut"

Not really, he might had exploration data of 5 months of own life. Or anything like. Not your problem though, until "victim" passes away. If you want that be your problem and "dangerous" play - face consequences.
Because now gankers all say about "dnagerous" while their self risk none.

 

[Sucette]

Not really, he might had exploration data of 5 months of own life.

That's called using your head. Just don't sell explo data in shinrarta/deciat. Easy.

 

[alexzk]

That's called using your head. Just don't sell explo data in shinrarta/deciat. Easy.

Just dont kill people for nothing and keep your ship -easy. Just wait another man will respond attack or fly away.

 

[alexzk]

...also as bonus we could use too, lineage 2 had guild wars, when 2 guilds mutual declare wars each other players can kill NOT flagged and don't get PK state, however itself they become flagged, so anybody else can join the fight.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

But again, would it not make more sense to be more prepared? Punishment of the ganker will do nothing but temporarily massage one's ego, those 5 months of exploration data would still be gone. All of the above ideas would require significant code changes, and honestly does any of us really believe that's going to happen? Best to make use of the tools that are already at our disposal.

Why not switch to solo when handing the data in?
Or better, why not keep an eye on the radar watching out for hollow squares/triangles?
Or build a ship that can escape?
Or switch to a combat ship you parked at the edge of the bubble and hand in your data in that?

A ganker won't be able to interdict you unless you let them get behind you. Just don't let them and you'll be safe. They will give up eventually, I've done it numerous times with them; just stop and keep facing them until they get bored.

Stations are a different story, and it used to be a challenge to dock at Jameson's for example - but since FC's hit last year I haven't come across a station blockade, even during a CG. You could always just wake in, stop, and check out the radar for unusual/hostile ships. Then either switch modes or wake out and back again if you want.

(apart from why one would choose a known player hotspot to hand in months worth of exploration data in a paper ship)

 

[CaptainPugwash]

I would love to see a better insurance model in the game - both in terms of ships and cargo - the more rebuys the higher the rebuy % goes up, though I guess this would hurt concensual PvP... maybe if both parties have crimes off it wouldn't apply or something like that, like how you can settle accidents outside of court/without insurance involvement.

Still wouldn't deter a ganker who's swimming in credits (if you play for a bit we all do, let's face it, ganker or not) and as I said, I have a 112m bounty on my T10 (NPC sourced before anyone moans at me) - I have little desire to pay that off because I want to keep it in the "high score" list where it currently is, and unless I make a ridiculous mistake I never will, because a player would have to chew through shields/hull first, and only if I don't wake out first which is ridiculously easy to do; either you tank it out, or you speed it out, at least that's how my fleet is designed - the usual gank boats are a mix of both of those so very hard to kill, thus increasing player bounties are kind of moot because it'll be very hard to collect them.

I think the main deterrent for a ganker would be constant hassle from cops in SC. Most ganking happens in SC, and nobody can gank if they are being continually interdicted themselves. I would scale it based on notoriety, so no swapping to a clean ship.

 

[CardioTherapy]

Yes, they may do pvp with other people who want pvp or face consequences.
Because now system works in reverse u say, pvp killers want everybody to be a victims. They don't really seek fair fight, they just want kills.
I just want balanced. If you force somebody to be a victim - face consequences that you may lose all at once too.

Comme on man, you want to take all the fun out of this game. It is called Elite DANGEORUS. I have been ganked many times and I learned to make ganker resistant ships and I specialized in escaping. Yes, you wouldn’t be able to carry max cargo in shieldless T9 and that is the fun – you adapt.

 

[alexzk]

Or better, why not keep an eye on the radar watching out for hollow squares/triangles?

I just got to system full of cargo with 50 planets. Took about 5 mins to scan while I couldn't see radar. Sure I did that in PG. However we talk here about making open more lucrative.
And that what will happen if they will lose ship - I will make pvp ship and will go to Deciat, without data or anything just to kill some gankers, or most likely make a hunt, don't allow them to kill noobs. I can do the same now too, however no point. With higher risks to lose ships gankers will change their behaviour. And finally will lose it. I don't think they will rebuild ship 5th time, most likely just quit it.

 

[alexzk]

It is called Elite DANGEORUS

Exactly. However it is Elite SAFE for ganker I just ask to make it dangerous for him as well.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I think the main deterrent for a ganker would be constant hassle from cops in SC. Most ganking happens in SC, and nobody can gank if they are being continually interdicted themselves. I would scale it based on notoriety, so no swapping to a clean ship.

Yeah, when I was in Colonia and flew around in a wanted ship (with 10 notoriety) it was a pain getting interdicted all the time, be it system security or bounty hunters. But because NPC interdictions are so easy to win, it was just a nuisance, not a deterrent.

What did make me avoid a place though was being hostile with the controlling faction - that can really hurt including on my own carrier's instance if parked there - but that only works if you want to dock somewhere. Gankers don't need to as their carriers are likely parked in the neighbouring system worst case.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I just got to system full of cargo with 50 planets. Took about 5 mins to scan while I couldn't see radar. Sure I did that in PG. However we talk here about making open more lucrative.
And that what will happen if they will lose ship - I will make pvp ship and will go to Deciat, without data or anything just to kill some gankers, or most likely make a hunt, don't allow them to kill noobs. I can do the same now too, however no point. With higher risks to lose ships gankers will change their behaviour. And finally will lose it. I don't think they will rebuild ship 5th time, most likely just quit it.

I agree, the requirement to come to a full stop in SC to use the FSS (without being able to see the radar) is very poor design - they should've at least allowed us to fly at say 1% throttle so you don't autosubmit. But since I have an answer here too I would say that's a risk one has to weigh off against the benefit of scanning a system while doing something else (like delivering cargo). If you're in an exploration ship in the bubble you're unlikely to have lots of exploration data onboard probably. But I agree it did catch me out before thankfully just an NPC which was easy to escape from (boost, boost, low or high wake, works in any ship unless you fly a shieldless Eagle with E rated thrusters and weak distro perhaps).

 

[Sucette]

I think the main deterrent for a ganker would be constant hassle from cops in SC

It's more or less already the case

However it is Elite SAFE for ganker

If it's elite safe for gankers, it's elite safe for everybody. Everybody is playing with the same rules. Just make gank resistant ships and you're safe.

Some food for toughts. When you're wanted, you're already know that if you die you'll have to stop playing for 30 minutes because jail and ship transfer. So if you shot at one ship and get wanted, now you will want to play safe to don't die. Aka ganking more, and not doing consensual pvp. The more you' ll make the life hard for a wanted person, the more you will push him toward more ganking.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

It's more or less already the case

If it's elite safe for gankers, it's elite safe for everybody. Everybody is playing with the same rules. Just make gank resistant ships and you're safe.

Some food for toughts. When you're wanted, you're already know that if you die you'll have to stop playing for 30 minutes because jail and ship transfer. So if you shot at one ship and get wanted, now you will want to play safe to don't die. Aka ganking more, and not doing consensual pvp. The more you' ll make the life hard for a wanted person, the more you will push him toward more ganking.

I can attest to the last bit - when I went on a killing spree butchering system security ships until ATR showed up, I had 10 notoriety which means I can't pay off bounties or fines anywhere, not only on the wanted ship but on any other ship. You then have a few choices - change your playstyle to do law-abiding stuff in the game (running missions but that will exclude surface scan jobs etc.), go mining or exploring, or wait it out for 20 hours by leaving your PC/console on overnight/during work.

Or instead, you just keep doing what you do already, it becomes more acceptable when you're that far into the dark side. And since that can be fun, it's a remarkably easy choice as well.

 

[Vetinari]

Or instead, you just keep doing what you do already, it becomes more acceptable when you're that far into the dark side. And since that can be fun, it's a remarkably easy choice as well.

It will be if the punishment is capped at N10 or 20 hours. Theres no extra loss to the game of the player at N10 so they might as well do more. Consequences stop following actions.

If there were more 'risk' or 'danger' for gankers that kept going it can only add to their gameplay surely? So what should those consequences be when credits mean nothing and getting to N10 has proven that?