PvP Flag in Open Play for NOPVP players.

Starshot_Jigawatts

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Fake Newts said:
I agree that C&P could use a loooot of work, for sure, and I'm hugely in favour of solving the 'ganking problem' via actual game mechanics and diegetic rules.

However, I do wonder if your point about "being part of the community" is based on, possibly, some wishful thinking. Seems like you're imagining P2P is more forgiving and broader than it is, that instances aren't incredibly restrictive... and that we're constantly meeting people in space in open, or that when you do meet people there's tons of potential for nuanced interaction. This really isn't the case most of the time - player sightings are fleeting and mostly silent. That's partly why I'm not thrilled by the prospect of the community activities I care about being diluted by people who don't understand/want them - it's already rare enough to get a populated instance at all.

In places where players actually congregate like CGs it's easy to either a) use system chat to find people to play with and hop in an instance with them or b) hop in open and block gankers you don't like. I feel like you think there's a big ole' party happening without you that doesn't involve shooting... and there sort of isn't?

Trying to look at this issue from another angle; let's imagine a flag system was added - the first thing I would do would be to block all the invulnerable players I saw in the hopes that eventually I would be back in a position where instancing was favourable to my preferences. Given there aren't actually very many truly antisocial "d-bag gankers" it seems easier for you guys to block them than for Open fans to block all of you, but again we don't have the statistics on it.

EDIT: Also by the way I appreciate your contributions to the thread, thanks.
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So aside from trolling me, you're now gaslighting. You're making condescending comments to this guy that his experience in the game, isn't really real and he "feels" or experiences things wrong.

But I guess now you finally gave us the truth. You just don't want to be stuck in an instance with people you can't shoot at. I mean after pages and pages and all kinds of dishonest debate tactics, you could have just boiled it down to that. Of course you wouldn't have come off nearly as well if you just said it that way, so instead you obfuscate.

The plainly obvious answer to this would be for FDEV to dedicate all resources to removing the instance limit. Which, duh, are being spent on solo and PG groups currently. I mean we just got an announcement the company is worth over a billion dollars. I think they can afford a few more server blades, don't you?? If that's your biggest concern with this....then just whatever. So silly.

Then you bring up the block feature. Well, PVP players hate the block feature anyway they tell me. There would be no need for the block feature to work as it currently does, if we could flag ourselves and stop griefing. Did you consider that?
 

Starshot_Jigawatts

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Rat Catcher said:
I'll just make the point that, I too, am entirely against a 'flag' system - seperate the opposite interests, not introduce an 'invulnerable' player into a PvP permitted system.
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HI Rat, I liked your idea too. I would take either, or. I would also take special zones where PVP can't happen etc etc. I've compromised on all this, while being accused of being intractable.

Just want to play in open sometimes without being griefed or even the threat of. Not too much to ask, again, every other game handles this just so.
 

Fake Newts

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Starshot_Jigawatts said:
The plainly obvious answer to this would be for FDEV to dedicate all resources to removing the instance limit. Which, duh, are being spent on solo and PG groups currently.
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My friend, you really don't understand what P2P is, do you. As I've said previously itt, there are no separate servers, there is only instancing. No extra money is being spent on each individual mode. I suggest looking into what a peer to peer system entails.

Starshot_Jigawatts said:
You just don't want to be stuck in an instance with people you can't shoot at
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I've pretty much said since the beginning that I don't want to be stuck in an instance with people who follow different rules to me, yes. And that extends to having a preference for sharing instances with like-minded players, as I've said over and over. You wouldn't benefit from being in an instance with me, because as has become abundantly clear we engage with the game in fundamentally different ways. I wouldn't benefit from being in an instance with you either.

Starshot_Jigawatts said:
You're making condescending comments to this guy that his experience in the game, isn't really real and he "feels" or experiences things wrong.
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It's true I was a bit condescending, but you've shaken my faith that players understand what P2P entails.

Starshot_Jigawatts said:
Well, PVP players hate the block feature
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Apparently they don't because I'm one and it's fine by me. There's some evidence that it destabilises networking which is not ideal, but that's a technical issue for Fdev to address and I have no problem in principle with players like you and I using tools to avoid one another given we have diametrically opposed preferences.

I would like the competitive and strategic layers of Elite to be incentivised and signposted better, but that's a separate topic.
 

Starshot_Jigawatts

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Fake Newts said:
It's true I was a bit condescending, but you've shaken my faith that players understand what P2P entails.
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Everyone knows what P2P is, it's just irrelevant. Like every single word you've said on this topic. You only care for preserving the status quo and you care nothing for those who want a consistent experience in Elite.

400 billion star systems, and you think so small your concern is P2P instancing when that's simply an artificial choice that FDEV that can be expanded, fixed, or otherwise made seamless. My goodness....what silliness.

Projection at it's finest here. Every single thing you've accused me of, you've done to me and others the entire time.
 

Rat Catcher

Rat Catcher
Starshot_Jigawatts said:
I'm quite sure people have been asking for his idea since day 1. And we don't have it yet, mostly because of people like you I imagine.
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Fake Newts said:
Yes, people like me who have been repeating over and over that they are fine with players of different preferences being separated have consistently shot down requests for players of different preferences to be separated.
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Starshot, read what was written again...

Fake isn't arguing against seperation - Only against visible 'invulnerable' players.

Sorry, to force the point a bit - I know who here might be 'biased' against keeping the 'easy prey' seperate, and Fake ain't one of them! :eek:
 

Starshot_Jigawatts

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Fake Newts said:
The game wouldn't need P2P if frontier paid large amounts of money for dedicated servers and charged players a monthly fee to play on them. Like wot MMOs do. So by a sort of weird twist of fate you're sort of right.
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I would pay a subscription right now hands down for this game to be brought up to industry-standard. In a heartbeat. $15-20 a month? That's nothing compared to the enjoyment I get out of it.
 

payperheirplain

payperheirplain
WoW uses a similar system on their PvE realms. You can flag yourself anywhere for PvP. If you enter into the enemy faction area you are automatically flagged for PvP. If you enter certain areas you are auto flagged. If you are in a neutral zone and attack someone you are auto flagged.The flag can't be swapped back for 10 minutes/some time.

How could this work in Elite?

1. Have a flag that when you turn it off you can't turn it back on for another 10 minutes/1 hour/ some sort of time (but within a few hours at max).
a. If you are notorious you can't flip it back until that timer is up, even if it is from killing an NPC, but this only has an impact if you had the flag off when you killed the NPC. If you kill a clean player it will auto flag you anyway.

2. If you attack another player your flag is automatically flipped to PvP. This can have a delay on it until you cause X amount of damage, X percent of damage, or X number of shots. Perhaps you have to have them targeted for it to count? There needs to be some work on this because it can be exploited.

3. If you enter a zone that would be "contested" you auto flag to PvP. For example, Combat Zones or scenario zones. If you select a side you automatically get flagged. If you stay within them for X amount of time (1 minute after it begins?)

4. If you enter a zone where you are an enemy to the home faction you get auto flagged. This would apply to Power Play and would need to be considered, but honestly, if you're pledged to a power play faction and in open you're playing the game and getting hit by players who are enemy factions should be allowed to get their merits from killing you.

There are other things that might be worth looking at as well, but this could be a basic premise to get started.
 

Starshot_Jigawatts

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Rat Catcher said:
Starshot, read what was written again...

Fake isn't arguing against seperation - Only against visible 'invulnerable' players.

Sorry, to force the point a bit - I know who here might be 'biased' against keeping the 'easy prey' seperate, and Fake ain't one of them! :eek:
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Rat if you got your butt in the game and worked on this CG with me, none of this would have happened here :p :ROFLMAO:
 

Robert Maynard

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Robert Maynard
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