Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[Mole HD]

I see a lot of [CMDR] prefixes in peoples names in the in game general chat so i figured there are ED players who also play SC, perhaps they just wouldn't post in here.

You're a rare breed. Many backers when asked this question would say "Its ALPHA" as a reason it can't be reviewed like a released game. This is usually not long after they have been telling people that SC is already better than any AAA game out there.

The alpha shield is something the faithful have been hiding behind for years to deflect any criticism of the game. But one those evil FUDsters are gone, they go back to talking about the game like its the best thing in the world.

Intrepid makes some good comments and points though...seems like an overall sensible chap from what I'm reading... definitely not to be confused with poor Ant methinks. Like me, he's not averse to giving Ci¬G a little credit when they get something right

 

[Agony_Aunt]

let one of the senior devs take over, Brian Chambers maybe?

CR would never allow it. Its his dream and his ego and narcissism wouldn't allow anyone else to take the lead.

Also, while BC is perhaps one of the more grounded of the upper management, he's still been huffing what CR is smoking for a long time.

The best hope for a quality released product is for CIG to hit serious financial trouble, for Chris to have to sell more of the company to the point where he no longer has controlling interest, at which point he can be replaced and they bring in a finisher to get a release out of the door.

Basically Freelancer all over again.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

It is a fun one.

There is no game.

Hmmm, i played it everyday last week.

But Asp didn't say that.

He said "It is of consequence to every backer of SC to receive the games that they bought and paid for."

CIG to date have not delivered on the games people bought and paid for. The gap between what exists now and what people paid for is well.... currently, a close to 500 million dollar gap.

 

[Cotic]

RSI states it's a playable alpha, but does that constitute an actual game, or something akin to what Shroud of the Avatar was until Garriott called it a day and bailed on his project?

What stands out to me is that it is everything, and nothing. All dependent on the image they are trying to portray at that moment.

Chris has said it is an early access game, then he has said it is a pre-alpha, then he has said it is a live service game, or that it is no different from a released game which receives patches etc.

The shape of the shield changes depending on the attack levied against it.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Intrepid makes some good comments and points though...seems like an overall sensible chap from what I'm reading... definitely not to be confused with poor Ant methinks. Like me, he's not averse to giving Ci¬G a little credit when they get something right

Its early days of thread development though

Intrepid has made some fair points, but he's also been off on some points as well and offered up some comments direct from the book of the faithful.

We've seen this before, someone comes in trying to appear impartial and wanting to hear alternate views, but within a few pages the tone changes and more and more the excuses come out for CIG until they are revealed as a true believer.

I'm not saying it will happen with Intrepid, but we've seen the pattern on several occasions.

So, i'll see how these alpha posts develop and what the release version of Intrepid looks like

Maybe he will remain a thread regular, chewing the fat over SC's development, talking about his experiences, being critical as appropriate while also talking about what he likes as well. Like a certain Mole or a few others here.

Or maybe he will go full Novak.

 

[n4p0l3on]

That may suggest that a significant number of people are getting what they want from it. people clearly like this game enough, or whatever it is, to me its a game, one that has problems, i know people who play SC, a lot, also own this game and don't like it, i do.

no they don't, they imagine they do or will do, but they don't. if you bought a ferrari, but they give you the car just with a toyota prius engine instead, would you say you get the car that they sold to you? because most if not all of the stuffs you bought from CIG still missing the advertised features that made you bought them in the first place. back to the ferrari analogy, would it be okay to you if ferrari says that the engine is still coming soon after 8th years since purchase of said car? I mean they gave you the car, you can keep it at your home, you can drive that "ferrari" around on the street, you can admire the beauty of the car's body, heck other people also can admire your car and they wouldn't know it as long as they don't notice the actual engine missing. you can totally say you had fun with that car.

but is that an acceptable business conduct by ferrari to you? I bet people would sue ferrari to bankruptcy if they did such practice.

 

[Mole HD]

Its early days of thread development though

Intrepid has made some fair points, but he's also been off on some points as well and offered up some comments direct from the book of the faithful.

We've seen this before, someone comes in trying to appear impartial and wanting to hear alternate views, but within a few pages the tone changes and more and more the excuses come out for CIG until they are revealed as a true believer.

I'm not saying it will happen with Intrepid, but we've seen the pattern on several occasions.

So, i'll see how these alpha posts develop and what the release version of Intrepid looks like

Maybe he will remain a thread regular, chewing the fat over SC's development, talking about his experiences, being critical as appropriate while also talking about what he likes as well. Like a certain Mole or a few others here.

Or maybe he will go full Novak.

I hope he does hang around, I relish the opinion of someone else who actually plays the game regularly enough to add some more realistic input from that perspective. We've got Sovapid, Surefoot and me...3 out of many who actually play the game. We're all critical of it...or rather... critical of the development and management of the project to a greater or lesser degree but we have some insight and views about playing the game outside of arguing about CiG's business practises which are more often discussed here than anything else.

I don't see any issue with Intrepid actually liking the 'game' of Star Citizen, after all...both Sovapid and I do as well

 

[Dementropy]

I was always a fan of the pizza analogy from a few years back.

 

[Mole HD]

I was always a fan of the pizza analogy from a few years back.

Love it...Wordsmithery at it's finest.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I don't see any issue with Intrepid actually liking the 'game' of Star Citizen, after all...both Sovapid and I do as well

You don't offer up excuses for CIG's failings though and have your own criticisms of the game. You don't offer up "its alpha" or "they had to build a company first" or other cards from the book of the faithful.

You enjoy aspects of what exists while bemoaning other aspects of the game while acknowledging that even though you enjoy it, its still a long way off from what was sold.

In short, a fairly balanced perspective.

That's what I'd like to see from Intrepid as well.

But, as you know, there are good reasons why most of us here don't play SC, whether its because of a refusal to give CR any cash at all or a refusal to give CR cash until he produces the game he said he would make.

Sure, people can enjoy what is there right now, but it doesn't mean that it should be proffered up as an excuse for the state of the game.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I was always a fan of the pizza analogy from a few years back.

Wow, back when I was still spreading FUD on /r/sc!

I got 54 upvotes as well for my comment!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Hah, knew i'd find some gold if i went digging in that reddit thread.

I'd like to know when we can get more people working on SC so that progresses faster. So when s42 is done I assume those people will work on sc.

 

[Skizomeuh]

I find quite strange that LittleAnt or Mr Nowak or any other SCDF incarnation around didn't jump in the hype train our intrepid newcomer set on track.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Crowd funding always has been and continues to be a calculated risk in my opinion. It can be the spark that enables great things to happen but at the same time it can be just another example of throwing money into a pit.

I d like to believe that actual backers (talking about the people who backed throughout the 2012 kickstarter) knew the risks involved but thats them. Everybody who got into Star Citizen afterwards is at best a customer expecting a real return value on his purchase or at worst a sucker who doesnt understand the difference between backer and customer and claims to be something he isnt. Technically there is no difference between the two. Backers have no special or extra rights that suckers do. The only thing that differentiates them IMO is their acknowledgement that their initial investment is lost for no return value at all. It was a calculated risk and if its a duck they are/should be okay with it.


I cannot believe that whoever comes after them, spends thousands of dollars on SC only to have SC tank or not deliver whats expected is okay with all that and doesnt care. They might "say" it but I wouldnt believe it. Often enough the demonstrated behavior points out something more serious than blasé indifference to the whole topic.

That being said crowdfunding is a critical and important tool to enable projects that would otherwise be ignored and overlooked by the people who hold all the power but at the same time whoever participates should be aware of the dangers of crowdfunding. The thing that seperates a crowdfunding risk from a scam is the result. If theres a game or product at the end of the development its at best a failure and at worst a scam and both things are basically the same. Your invested money is gone, you are not getting what you wanted. End of story.
...

My thoughts about crowdfunding, the original crowdfunding way was for somebody to establish company around some project or idea, and offer shares. But well off course that way is nowadays somewhat disliked. Because after all that means you share CONTROLL and possible PROFITS with people who bought those shares. And because nowadays there are all kinds of irritating rules that make running for example straight scam that way quite more difficult. Plus those investors may not be as gullible as more common marks...Crowdfunding schemes avoid most of that, you do not give away controll, or profits, and backers are not treated as investors. Ok there are and were honest projects that have been crowdfunded. Some of them even succesfull ones. Thats true. But there has been and is projects that fail, or those that are more or less straight scams. Likewise in history when major crowdfunding way was public share selling there has been both failures and scams, and still are, but running those nowadays is way harder, and that is for good reasons. Sad fact is, that those scamsters will cause eventually this new crowdfunding type becoming more controlled by various rules and controlls, making again harder for legitimate projects to get their funding.

 

[cigwatch]

I have thousands of hours in it, people do play it so i guess yes.

People have thousands of hours in Garry's Mod as well. Some probably spent the same amount of time in Minecraft when it was still that wonky Java app. It was super fun, though.

The issue is not whether one can have fun in Star Citizen. It is obvious one can. I know one can. Especially when screwing around with friends, which always makes a game better. The issue is the state of Star Citizen in 2021, broken promises, bloated budget, exploitative marketing practices, gaslighting, outright lies etc etc.

DAT HOUSE IN PALM BEACH BTW.

Anyway. Broken physics. A single, incomplete star system. Tier 0 gameplay loops. Lack of clear vision for the product (a vision is not "yeah yeah yeah, let's put it in", a vision means clear understanding of what goes and what does not go into a product). Server meshing? So far even the most basic server mashing is not done. Quanta and dynamic missions? Still in Tony Z.'s imagination. All of that after ten years of development and half a B of dead presidents.

And where the hell is my Squadron 42, Episode 1? I really wanted that modern take on Wing Commander.

Nonetheless, the screenshots can be phenomenal.

 

[Ronzer]

I recently upgraded to a Ryzen 5800X.
The rest of the system is:
32GB System RAM
RTX 2070 Super
Installed on an NVMe Drive.

I run the game highest settings at 1440P, mostly its about 50 to 90 FPS tho in some places that can get as low as 40, during very heavy battles like the recent Xeno Threat event it can go as low as 30 in the heat of it at the battle, tho that was a big event.

95% of the time the game runs very well for me, its those few outliers that can be problematic but i don't think an level of hardware will cure that, this is a code / optimisation problem

Its not comparable with ED, at 1440P with everything set to the highest level i'm rock solid up against a 150 FPS limiter. absolutely stellar performance.

Ok, good to know...I do plan to upgrade a bit more later this year.

Thats a lot of words to basically say "I hate Star Citizen". Still....upvote because I admire effort ^^

It's not that I hate the game itself, but the broken promises, the possiblity of what it could be but their inability to execute, the still boasting about taking money, as if proud, as they continue to bilk folks out of money....yeah, I f&^$%&@@%%^ing hate that.

 

[Vetinari]

net is already full of criticism of those two, none of it is new to me, i was hoping to get your perspectives on the game

Before I begin just take note that this is version 12 of the thread / topic. Used to be limited to 10,000 posts per thread. So 130,000 posts now in total at least. A lot of the earlier threads were full of promise and potential and what it could be. Youre right that SC is not a competitor for ED, neither is NMS or MSFS or Eve or Space Engineers - they all offer something different and some people will play one or two, some people will play them all. Most people have their favourite but saying an apple is better than an orange is meaningless in that regard. As long as both are edible.

Theres a variety of people on this thread, we have people posting here who are:

Players / Testers of the Alpha - who say when a patch is good but also when a patch is terrible. Miners & Griefers can get most gameplay atm and both are on here.
Refunders - of both types. There are people here who used to be Concierge then refunded. Some have rebought into the game but at much lower levels. Some have lost all confidence and feel they were scammed out of their original investment and almost got taken for a ride, they are rightly downright angry.
Dreamers - not many left tbh but these are full of what it could be, like the first 11 versions of this thread and Spectrum used to be. All the excuses have been said and debunked but they keep hoping and dreaming and repeating the excuses with a 'coming soon' attitude.
Doubters & skeptics - All types. Some believe it will never get released at all, some believe something will get released and then slated, some that something will be released and then hopefully built on into the game they were promised many times.
Outright 'this is a con' - Some people see that you cant separate CR and CIG & SC. They are one and the same and a lot relies on what CR says and does and evidence so far is take lots of money and produce very little.
Believers - next miracle tech coming soon will fix everything wrong and then it will just fall into place
Non players - here for various reasons. Some are insulted that SC has been used for years to denigrate their favourite game 'SC will kill Elite when it releases' has been used on other threads for years and people came here worried it was true or to see what the fuss was. Some are just here for the soap opera or to have a laugh. Some are fascinated / horrified by the whole process and all the shell companies and Trusts set up that have nothing to do with actually producing a game.
Screenshotters & Fidelity - see the pretty and thats fine for them. Enjoy long walks in corridors as long as they look good. Sunsets and landscapes.
Ex CIG devs - yes we have those too. People who say it how it was when they were there or have 'insider' knowledge and can see history repeating.
Ex Dreamers - people who used to live the dream but now just want a game, any game that is reliable and has gameplay loops and are sick of the talk and no action, dont want more featurecreep or dreams talk or what it will be.

Most of the people you might think of as FUDsters have turned that way because of how CR & CIG has treated them and then called them FUDsters for speaking up.

Most people here dont want the game to fail, they may not want CR in charge either though, most 'watchers' wouldnt mind if people got a game to play with gameplay loops and enjoyed it. Some might even look at it when it is released and buy it then, but not now, not in a perma-Alpha tester state with more tech debt than features. Screenshotters love the game (I have taken more screenshots in ED than any game ever and I am by no means fidelity focussed so I can see the attraction, but I want to sit down and play a game and chat with my friends and do things by myself or with others not look at a pretty slideshow. I really dislike long cinematics in games (Witcher and Assassins Creed for example and they actually spoil my game enjoyment)

People who like the Alpha as is, usually a lot of their enjoyment comes from interaction with other people in the Alpha as there is little gameplay apart from that and very few gameplay loops that actually work apart from mining and that gets screwed every now and again as well. So they are social and enjoy the social aspect, or they are gankers or PVPers or griefers and enjoy the fights and even if the game was 100% complete that may still be their primary focus.

So its not a game, not a game as stated by CIG even today on its fundraising pages, its a playable Alpha. Clearly stated for legal reasons as they could get sued if they call it a game, they made guarantees and took money for the game. Only people who call it a game are the Dreamers and the reason given for it being defined as a game is 'I have fun'. If CIG called it a game they could get prosecuted under False Advertising or Fraud laws or many others, or Wire Fraud which is the catch-all when nothing else can be proven and they know it, so its a playable Alpha.

To me everything that gets added from here on is a bonus to me

Which is fine but the original KS made legally binding guarantees that most people signed up for. Its not a bonus to them its MVP as agreed and signed for and paid for 9 years ago. If I employ a builder to build me a house and they dig a hole I dont say 'Well any bricks added now are a bonus' I didnt pay you to dig a hole, I paid you to build a house. I didnt pay you to employ architects to show me what the bedroom will look like, I want a structure I can live in and Ive been homeless for 9 years so Where is my house as we agreed!? Doesnt matter if some neighbours asked you to do something else, we had a legally binding contract and you have broken it without my explicit permission as needed by law. Wire Fraud easily proven again if taken money under false pretences.

can go as low as 30

I play on XB and 30 FPS is what I been getting for years, next gen is a whopping 60 FPS. However 30 FPS on my system is smooth and playable, 30 FPS in SC is a stuttering nightmare. I still dont understand why that is the case and why it isnt smooth. But then I dont understand game development, but I shouldnt have to, I have paid my money to people who say they do and produce games I can play. I dont need to understand medicine to listen to the Doctor or the internal combustion engine to drive a car, I just need to know who the decent mechanic is and who will rip me off and not actually fix the engine or keep coming back for more money holding my car in the garage as un-driveable.

Edit: Maths tch

 

[Agony_Aunt]

But then I dont understand game development, but I shouldnt have to, I have paid my money to people who say they do and produce games I can play.

This is the thing. When the CEO of the company is on record saying things like "By the end of the year backers will have everything they pledged for and more" you don't need to understand software development to hold him to his word.

 

[Vetinari]

Sunday morning cartoon time:

 

[Xink]

Bruh, did you hear SC has space ships? In space? Bruh... Seriously bruh just look at the black background, it's so black! And the ships, so pretty. No but seriously bruh you can buy in and play right now. You know you want to.

For only 1000 tokens, err I mean dollars, the devs will personally talk to you on the VIP forum and make you feel important. Just think of the possibilities bruh.