Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Yeah it has to be said UE always have been far ahead the Crytek Engine in terms of code quality (to be fair the bar set by CE was really low), performance, and even tooling. Whatever we may think of Epic Games and their insufferable CEO, they are a really strong developer team. What the latest UE can do is mind boggling, and yeah I will just mention The Mandalorian...
Some lone indie dev will build a proof of concept vertical slice for a SC clone, in their spare time, in UnrealEngine, long before CIG figures out how to do it.
 
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1200 players is already confirmed with Planetside 2. 30k player avatars are confirmed with Dual Universe. 7k player-battle with Eve Online. There is always "however", however. None of those offers the physical simulation on the level CIG are promising, modular ships divided into components, additional thousands of NPCs with AI etc.
  • Planetside 2 has relatively simple physics, issues with lag compensation and failing collision detection. It does not detract from the fun, though.
  • The Dual Universe demo has no interaction between avatars whatsoever, which reduces the complexity immensely. The only state to share is position of each avatar and no interactions means that lag does not matter.
  • Eve Online is an action queue MMO like every early MMO. No physics to speak of, added time dilation etc., so it is not even a linear-time game. And of course it lags like crazy - performance tanks to "frames per minute".
Let's see..
Planetside 2 has an older netcode indeed, still the effort is amazing for its time (that was released in 2012.. yes back then SC was just barely started - if CRoberts had done his homework he'd had taken a long, detailed look at that game and how it was made as the general design is really close to SC) and yeah it lacks lag compensation / prediction, but still it's a reference milestone IMHO for what it achieved vs the competition (and even still today it's not so shabby.. not too many competitors). Oh and it uses a custom made engine.

Dual Universe is entirely designed around its netcode. So yeah the game design itself takes care of not creating bottlenecks in network traffic anywhere by avoiding data-heavy interactions. Another way to do that would be using a much slower kind of gameplay, e.g. World of Warships or Mechwarrior kind of speed, which really simplifies handing network lag and traffic. I mention that because that was a real possibility for Star Citizen if they used a more realistic flight model (= closer to realism modded KSP for instance). Bespoke engine too.

EvE netcode and architecture date back to 2004, it's vastly outdated here, and yeah that time dilation is a crutch. Everything runs synchronous with their backing SQL database, and if you do not know what that means, these databases have comparatively slow write operations (due to locks happening on data you are writing). Needless to say their database servers are absolute beasts, but yeah that's not cutting it if you have a thousand players spamming real time actions in the same place (that's where each player will need to get a hold of an exclusive lock on the database to write their action/command, then release it for the next player etc... hence the action queue and minutes per frame). So yeah EvE has never been a reference there, it's one for its space trading game design and economy BGS, best in class, still today I think (unless I've missed a newcomer). If one was to design the backing persistence today they'd use a fast-write, eventual consistency, high concurrency system (there are a few choices on the market - with things like Redis that can handle the real time front-end for the players). Not blaming CCP though as when they designed and released the game, nothing like this really existed. Custom engine again, starting to see a trend :)
 

Ahem... i think some of us might disagree with this.


Oh no! Anyway....


They clearly don't understand SC's development. All the items they list will be in Star Citizen. All you need to do is dream and it will all come true. CR has promised it all.


Hmmm.... i don't think this will garner many positive reactions.


Oh dear..... bringing up ED. Not a good move on Spectrum.
 

Ahem... i think some of us might disagree with this.


Oh no! Anyway....


They clearly don't understand SC's development. All the items they list will be in Star Citizen. All you need to do is dream and it will all come true. CR has promised it all.


Hmmm.... i don't think this will garner many positive reactions.


Oh dear..... bringing up ED. Not a good move on Spectrum.

One month Alpha vs Decade alpha. Who... Will... Win!
 
This is the thing, you need to understand what you are dealing with, be humble and know where to compromise. Nobody can win with physics.
Or at least, if you have high goals and ambitions, to do a real prototype that addresses the potentially painful details of your design, benchmark that, and then adjust that design around that information. That's a rule that's general to computer software by the way. When I do proof of concepts for my customers these are always about the real difficult part of the project, never about the colors and graphics.
 
Or at least, if you have high goals and ambitions, to do a real prototype that addresses the potentially painful details of your design, benchmark that, and then adjust that design around that information. That's a rule that's general to computer software by the way. When I do proof of concepts for my customers these are always about the real difficult part of the project, never about the colors and graphics.

I don't think Chris Roberts got the memo about that though.
 
EPIC DEVELOPMENT BATTLES OF HISTORY!!!!!

Now i want to see an epic rap battle between David Braben and Chris Roberts.

Towards the end they can bring in Sean Murray to diss them both :D

Roberts certainly has a place he could show off on MTV Cribs.

I bet they all do but the others earned their money.
 
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