General / Off-Topic The Covid vaccine must be mandatory ?

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Patrick_68000

Patrick_68000
sewerratuk said:
Lots of countries have following the same protocol, just at different speeds.
It’s not that they think less vulnerable don’t need the vaccine, it’s just that they haven’t got round to offering it to them yet, it’s just a matter of priorities.
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When the majority of elderly people with commorbidities and overweight / obese people are vaccinated, severe forms of Covid will be much less numerous.

New variants should primarily attack young people and healthy people, which is not currently the case in severe and fatal forms.

Which shouldn't happen if god wants it.

And the Covid will become a simple seasonal flu.

😷
 

Robin of Spiritwood

Robin of Spiritwood
Synkreto said:
One thing seems to be sure : you either get immune by vaccination, or natural infection . Your choice .
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Either we ride the boat to the other side, or take these 2 ways off.
cd5bIXS.jpg
 

Patrick_68000

Patrick_68000
Synkreto said:
Yeah, I understood that . What I do not understand is : advise/mandatory vaccinations are "already" pretty normal . Esp. for people living in EU - many of these travel, for various reasons . But suddenly, in the case of a really dangerous pandemic virus, the same concept is an assault on democracy ?
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The pandemic is of medium importance which can be managed by various options.

Vaccination, PCR and negative antigen tests, and antibodies

This helps protect people's freedom to dispose of their bodies, and prevent the revolutions, while strongly weakening the virus.

3 million deaths worldwide is not a figure that endangers the survival of the humanity.

More worrying and much more serious are the 8 million deaths each year due to pollution.

The climatic problems and the destruction of the environment, the fauna and the flora, if people do not change their behavior, will cause the covid to appear like a little cat pee.

😷
 

Patrick_68000

Patrick_68000
Robin of Spiritwood said:
While the range of symptoms for the two viruses is similar, the fraction with severe disease appears to be different. For COVID-19, data to date suggest that 80% of infections are mild or asymptomatic, 15% are severe infection, requiring oxygen and 5% are critical infections, requiring ventilation. These fractions of severe and critical infection would be higher than what is observed for influenza infection.

Those most at risk for severe influenza infection are children, pregnant women, elderly, those with underlying chronic medical conditions and those who are immunosuppressed. For COVID-19, our current understanding is that older age and underlying conditions increase the risk for severe infection.

Mortality for COVID-19 appears higher than for influenza, especially seasonal influenza. While the true mortality of COVID-19 will take some time to fully understand, the data we have so far indicate that the crude mortality ratio (the number of reported deaths divided by the reported cases) is between 3-4%, the infection mortality rate (the number of reported deaths divided by the number of infections) will be lower. For seasonal influenza, mortality is usually well below 0.1%. However, mortality is to a large extent determined by access to and quality of health care.

- W.H.O. figures.

Coronavirus disease (COVID-19): Similarities and differences between COVID-19 and Influenza

COVID-19 and seasonal influenza (flu) are respiratory infections caused by two different viruses. While some of the signs, symptoms and population groups at risk of severe complications are similar, there are some important differences. This questions and answers page will help you know the...
www.who.int www.who.int

The difference between 0.1 and 3% is a factor of 30 TIMES BIGGER. As if anybody who watches the news is convinced otherwise. IDK how anybody could get this wrong.
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Of course the Covid is more serious than the flu, today.

For certain categories of the population which must be protected by the vaccination.

😷
 

Synkreto

Synkreto
Since we are discussing compulsory vaccination : everyone here is aware why Measles are such a Problem, right ? And that we ( humans) were able to study measles for decades by now, which is how we know what kind of problem they are ?

For starters :

www.encephalitis.info

Measles Infection and Encephalitis | Encephalitis International

Learn about measles, how it can be prevented, and how it can lead to encephalitis either during or after an infection.
www.encephalitis.info www.encephalitis.info

en.wikipedia.org

Measles - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

We do not know enough about SARS-CoV-2 yet to take any Risk . Because

www.nature.com

Tail risk of contagious diseases - Nature Physics

This Perspective argues that an approach called extreme value theory is appropriate for understanding the so-called tail risk of epidemic outbreaks, in particular by demonstrating that the distribution of fatalities due to epidemic outbreaks over the past 2500 years is fat-tailed and dominated...
www.nature.com www.nature.com

Simply put: we can not reliably predict the risks and outcomes . We simply have little clue yet .
 
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Patrick_68000

Patrick_68000

Patrick_68000

Patrick_68000
Synkreto said:
Here is a caveat : there is a lot of hopefull messaging going around . Which is all well and good . Being able to vaccinate teenagers -> good . Pfizer announcing they are working on actual medication -> good . Loads of other things going on -> good . Possibility to boost up existing vaccination against known variants -> good .

All the while, India is still imploding . What news do we really get out of Brazil these days ? What about that "Sputnik V featruing live Adenovirus?" thing ?

Noone can reliably tell what will happen within the next few months . Noone . By that I mean to say: the prospect of getting this thing somwhat under "control" in certain areas by vaccination and regular booster shots does not mean the pandemic is over already . There still is the real possibility that SARS-CoV-2 will go on surprising us .

One thing seems to be sure : you either get immune by vaccination, or natural infection . Your choice .
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My choice ?

Total respect for barrier gestures, a reasonable life in a rural environment, sport, a balanced diet, limited social interactions, no unnecessary overconsumption.

And also above all to wait to have sufficient hindsight on the medium-term effects of current vaccines.

And wait and see for the next generations of vaccines, if it is still necessary at that time.

😷
 

Robin of Spiritwood

Robin of Spiritwood
Patrick_68000 said:
There is useful trade which requires the means of transport. (y)

And there is the unnecessary trade, and mass tourism which is harmful to the planet and the people themselves. 🤮

😷
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We can agree here. :coffee: 🥪

The existing vaccines in Europe have reasonably good efficacy vs the Indian variants, I read. So hopefully it will be OK.
In the meantime with the lockdown we are going to have, there will be very nice clean air.
 

Synkreto

Synkreto
Patrick_68000 said:
My choice ?

Total respect for barrier gestures, a reasonable life in a rural environment, sport, a balanced diet, limited social interactions, no unnecessary overconsumption.

And also above all to wait to have sufficient hindsight on the medium-term effects of current vaccines.

And wait and see for the next generations of vaccines, if it is still necessary at that time.

😷
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You really took the bait .

Actually, it isn't your choice . It is likely to the exreme that the Virus will get you, one way or the other, one day or another . Developing population immunity around you - by people taking vaccine(s), or getting immunized by natural infection - may protect you . For a while . No one can tell you when that will start happening . We also do not know yet how long that will last .The really, really mean thing is : the more people immunized, the higher the risk to get infected for all the others while the Virus is still on Tour . At least for a while .

Once the Virus has gotten you : as of now, noone can tell you what that will mean for you . You will find out. Your own little real life SARS-CoV-2 case study .
 
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Wotthe Dickens

Wotthe Dickens
Under the right conditions, this vid works > 80% :) I usually try to make it competitive, it works better. Have a play!


test video

ed:
yes, ok if you've watched this, it may not have worked, but as mentioned, given the correct conditions, it has an astonishing high rate of deception.
TDLR We're really very easily mis-led and deceived. Even when the facts are in front of you.
 
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Arioch

Arioch
I wish I could book a vaccine - I’ve been trying every day since over-45s have been invited (UK) but keep getting met with a “Computer Says No” response 😅

After much phoning around, it turns out my GP took me off their books as I’d not been to them since 2014 and because I’ve just re-registered it could be up to 3 months before the NHS system updates with my details. Perhaps I should just lie about being a Health Worker, like some people (in their 30’s) have done that I know about...
 

Patrick_68000

Patrick_68000
Synkreto said:
You really took the bait .

Actually, it isn't your choice . It is likely to the exreme that the Virus will get you, one way or the other, one day or another . Developing population immunity around you - by people taking vaccine(s), or getting immunized by natural infection - may protect you . For a while . No one can tell you when that will start happening . We also do not know yet how long that will last .The really, really mean thing is : the more people immunized, the higher the risk to get infected for all the others while the Virus is still on Tour . At least for a while .

Once the Virus has gotten you : as of now, noone can tell you what that will mean for you . You will find out. Your own little real life SARS-CoV-2 case study .
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It's completely my choice since it was my life before the virus

If I catch the covid it will probably not be a severe form because I am not in the risk categories which leads to going into intensive care and possibly death.

During the devastating flu of 2018-2019, I had very serious pneumonia and the radiologists told me that my immune system defended itself very well because I kept 100% of my lung capacity and no after-effects.

I too thought that I was dying, drowned in my secretions, great difficulty in breathing, 39° fever, coughing 14 hours a day and night without stopping until my lungs burst and my rib cage very very painful, with no strength in my legs to rise, and all this during long days and nights.

Maybe that's why I have enough good confidence. because I'm not on new waters, and my immune system has already been seriously confronted with these damn coronavirus family.

Believe that in my life, my lifestyle and my environment, I have a better chance of not catching the virus.

This does not mean that one day I will not take the vaccine but for the moment it is not necessary because it is an epidemic of very medium importance which is localized mainly in certain countries and in high population densities and for very distinct categories of people.

😷
 

Patrick_68000

Patrick_68000
Synkreto said:
You really took the bait .

Actually, it isn't your choice . It is likely to the exreme that the Virus will get you, one way or the other, one day or another . Developing population immunity around you - by people taking vaccine(s), or getting immunized by natural infection - may protect you . For a while . No one can tell you when that will start happening . We also do not know yet how long that will last .The really, really mean thing is : the more people immunized, the higher the risk to get infected for all the others while the Virus is still on Tour . At least for a while .

Once the Virus has gotten you : as of now, noone can tell you what that will mean for you . You will find out. Your own little real life SARS-CoV-2 case study .
Click to expand...
In France, the vaccination extended to all adults "fragile" from Saturday, in addition to obese people declares the Minister of Health.

"The vaccination will be extended from Saturday May 1 to all the adults with a fragility factor, four million people."

"There are a number of French people who suffer from chronic disease, including obesity, which is the first risk factor outside of age which exposes people to severe forms."

"We are obviously also opening up vaccination to people with comorbidities such as hypertension, kidney failure, diabetes or cancer", said the Minister of Health.

I can't find my place here. 🙂

😷
 
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