You know I do wonder where Tencent sit when it comes to supporting Elite?
Stop askin ship interiors!!!
- Thread starter Lulzwhat
- Start date
That is not really true. What VR players (myself included here, the Index is great ... which makes the lack of VR in Odyssey even worse) can do is move around the camera. The body itself remains seated in the pilot's seat. What I highly suspect is that FD didn't solve the issue of multiple coordinate systems.
What does this mean?
Well, Imagine you have a coordinate system (CS from now on) and you want to move an entity in there. You do this in traditional engines like UE or Unity with vectores. Your vector determines orientation, speed/velocity and position in the CS. As your CS is static and does not change, this is a fairly easy task any pupil that just graduated from school should be able to do on paper.
Now, what happens if we throw in a CS in a CS?
Then things get messy. First, a CS can be an entity. Say you have a void of space ... any star system instance and you have nothing but a main star whic hresembles our origin in say CS1. Now you have a ship. Before Odyssey, that was about it. A CS and an entity happily moving around. With ship interiors, said entity now is a CS(2) which on top is not even static, as it is (potentionally) moving in CS1. If you now want to walk around a ship interior you will have another entity, the player, moving in CS2 while that CS2 is moving in CS1. So in order to get correct dispalcement vectors you will need to first get the relative vectors in CS2 and map that to CS1, which is basically nothing more than adding these two together.
However, the messy part is that thing with synchronisation and precision. Have you ever tried to see a ship in supercruise? Well I can tell you it's possible. Ships get rendered in SC if you are within render range of ariound 6-8km. And what happens when you get this close while moving at 30km/s in an open instance? Well you rubberband, a frickin' lot. So much that in one frame you are like 2km away and the next it is 20km.
While it doesn't matter per se for SC travel as collision is not only extremely unlikely but simply gets ignored, having now the ability to walk around a ship that is rubberbanding at the slowest permitted velocity will cause chaos if it is not synchronised with the respective CS it is moving in. The result would be an unimagineable amount of clipping and more often than not you would find yourself clipped out of your ship, suffocating in deep space.
And now imagine what happens if you transit an entitiy from CS2 into CS1 while it is moving? From a physical point of you, the idea of inertia would simply say that you would keep the relative vector and while transiting to CS1 you would not change your orientation and velocity but mathmatically your vector is now completely different as you are no longer in CS2 but CS1 which does not respect the relative vector of CS2 for your own entitiy's vector. This might be problematic when calculating positional information and could cause further clipping.
Ofcourse, this is only an assumption as I 1. am not part of the dev team responsible for EDO and 2. don't have access to the cobra engine that is running Elite as a whole (which is doing the CS and vector work).
I have had the pleasure of working with a two dimensional problem of the described one above myself and I can tell you it's an absolute pain if you do not know what you are doing.
The math module my friend has been writing for our problem was fortunately well throught through but transforming CSs the whole time will cause chaos. Especially when they are out of synch. Why are they out of synch? Because we have multiple cores and can't wait for each action to complete so we can transform all existing CS into one another at the end as that would be a huge bottleneck ... at least that was our issue in said two dimensional problem that has this analogy to it.
Now with that in mind, what am I trying to say here?
First, the placeholder-y system is most likely not as simple as it appears as lots of technical and mathmatical works would have been needed to be done where you could do lots of things wrong (just imagine two entities being in the very same location fighting for their rightful position in a CS [violent sounds of vibrations through clipping appear in your head after shortly catapulting one entity far into the sky]) and secondly that FDev simply doesn't have the know-how in their team or didn't want to invest the necessary resources to further develop the cobra engine to allow for such systems to work properly.
And hence the critique.
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Something that could - may I say SHOULD - be abstracted, instead of the double barreled shotgun shot in the foot that's CIG's approach. Warframe did something clever apparently. I assume FDEV is doing this too as when in stations concourse we're probably not rotating with the station, itself orbiting a moon, itself rotating on itself and orbiting its planet... And so on.
Then you can impose restrictions like being landed, or supercruising at minimum speed with no velocity changes (like with the FSS).
Im not saying it's easy. And I'm fully aware that's probably why it wasn't (and still isn't) in FDEV's plans. Hence why I'm pretty happy with what Odyssey brings to the game and never will blame FDEV because of "where's my interiors !!!"
I agree the reaction and focus on no ship interiors blew to insane levels but that is the symptom of a bigger problem.What I don't understand is why ship interiors have become such a big thing now.
Ship interiors were not announced as part of the base game. Frontier didn't deliver them. Almost no one complained.
Ship interiors were not announced as part of Horizons. Frontier didn't deliver them. Almost no one complained.
Ship interiors were not announced as part of Beyond. Frontier didn't deliver them. Almost no one complained.
Ship interiors were not announced as part of Odyssey. Frontier didn't deliver them. Seemingly every single player and their dog/cat/pet Thargoid are now complaining!
In my opinion a good part of the playerbase expected a lot more from Odyssey since the game didn't see any major update in many years after Horizons. Meanwhile competitors were implementing in their games more and more features that elite players wanted, adding contents at a pace Frontier never quite matched. The communication problems Frontier had and and still has with frustrated players did add to the plate too.
Many of us will stop asking for ship interiors when we get ship interiors...
In a word, no. I'm not for or against ship interiors. I am against companies who lie to their customers.
Listen to the interviews in this review. Or, ignore it. Either way, Fdev lied before, or after the fact.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsovOlGl70I
Listen to the interviews in this review. Or, ignore it. Either way, Fdev lied before, or after the fact.
Even if you are right, Braben is on record saying the game was built from the ground up with interiors in mind...
They did...with the Conda. They also gave it a damage model. Then they realised how long it would take for all ships and dropped it.
so, yeah.
Ship interiors pls.
or at least let us walk around the ones already built! i.e. every cockpit in this game ...
Ship interiors pls.
or at least let us walk around the ones already built! i.e. every cockpit in this game ...
Actually, Sidewinders as fighters launched from Anacondas were also part of the original E: D vision.
I cannot find the exact quote, but the EDSM entry for the Anaconda still mentions it can carry a Sidewinder.
I cannot find the Sidewinder inside the Anaconda, but yea - that quote floated around for some time, hence me mentioning the fact in the post you quoted.
But it confirms the doctrine of not having players inside players.
The description of the Conda was changed a while ago.
ehm... some couples do play together... just saying.. .
I really think this hounding of the OP is getting to be over the top. He/she is offering really good advice, you know!
Don't know about you guys, but I've had nothing but poor experiences asking ship interiors about anything. I even asked my trusty coffee maker about where I'd put the grounds once, and all it ever did was stare back at me. I assume it was staring. It sure wasn't telling me nothing.
So, once again: Stop asking ship interiors!
P.S.: Imagine if they answered? Now wouldn't that be freaky? (Yes, I know, but I quit Onionhead years ago).
Don't know about you guys, but I've had nothing but poor experiences asking ship interiors about anything. I even asked my trusty coffee maker about where I'd put the grounds once, and all it ever did was stare back at me. I assume it was staring. It sure wasn't telling me nothing.
So, once again: Stop asking ship interiors!
P.S.: Imagine if they answered? Now wouldn't that be freaky? (Yes, I know, but I quit Onionhead years ago).
People can ask for ship interiors all they want. Just as long as they understand there is no way we are getting them for years, if ever.
Sorry to disagree but of course it can be done, as can be walking in stations that are located in space. After all your ship is an instanced interior part of the game. many other games have the player moving from one instanced area to another. In fact Ed has already proved it can be done with moving around in Odyssey planet side stations with shops and so on. They may not have done it well but they have done it.
Should they come out and say it is about lack of cash then perhaps they can reduce the amount available to those shareholders who contribute very little other than an initial investment , then proceed to suck the life out of anything they dabble their mucky hands in.
That is also true, I remember that line.