General / Off-Topic The safest place

[lysan]

I'm pretty sure I linked these in this thread almost a year ago:

Particle sizes of infectious aerosols: implications for infection control

The global pandemic of COVID-19 has been associated with infections and deaths among health-care workers. This Viewpoint of infectious aerosols is intended to inform appropriate infection control measures to protect health-care workers. Studies of cough aerosols and of exhaled breath from...

www.thelancet.com

Human coronavirus data from four clinical trials of masks and respirators

COVID-19 is caused by SARS-CoV-2, a beta-coronavirus which is genetically similar to SARS-CoV. Seasonal alpha- (NL63, 229E) and beta- (OC43, HKU1) coronaviruses cause common colds, croup, and bronchiolitis. The transmission modes of human coronaviruses are similar, thought to be by droplet...

www.ijidonline.com

Also, you might want to check any of the countless other studies and analyses have that have been cited in this thread.



Look at the limitations section of that study and you'll see how hard it is to design a meaningful real-world experiment. However, I'd argue that this is no excuse to ignore the obvious implications of the results obtained from more controlled experiments.

Sure, it's perfectly possible to find studies that show limited effectiveness of mask wearing in non-clinical settings, but your assertion that the factors that make masks effective in a clinical setting are somehow wholly inapplicable to other settings borders on magical thinking. There may be some ambiguity as to the degree of overall impact of mask use where it's impossible to apply sufficient controls (either in methodology or observation), but to claim that masks don't work because of that ambiguity requires that you ignore all the facts behind what masks are actually doing.



Not a rational metaphor.



And not descriptive of any currently approved (even for emergency use) SARS-CoV-2 vaccine.

You might get away with claiming there is an uncertain correlation between mask use and rates of infection, but you cannot claim anything remotely similar of vaccine use, or cite any evidence that these vaccines are a meaningful health risk themselves.

Your unreasoning faith in your personal plot armor would be quaint, if it didn't make you a potential threat to others.

Oh back to we care for other people, what a load of [redacted] I still live in a free state and we got a great governor and we can walk around without masks. If we all go the way of the dodo I guess you will be happy, however we get flooded by people fleeing other states.

 

[Cotic]

That’s fine I could say the same, I really don’t care what you do, Im happy I still live in a free country. So please block me and you will be in you happy space again.

You what? I didn't moan about personal attacks so you can't say the same at all

You clearly do care because you're trying to tell everyone that wearing masks is unnecessary and therefore they shouldn't bother.

You don't live in a free country, you have to do a whole number of things to conform to governmental and societal rules. No one lives in a free country, there are just different levels of freedom.

So you want to protect yourself by asking me to block you while pretending it is me that needs protection lol.

 

[Cotic]

Oh back to we care for other people, what a load of [redacted] I still live in a free state and we got a great governor and we can walk around without masks. If we all go the way of the dodo I guess you will be happy, however we get flooded by people fleeing other states.

What state would that be? I'm guessing one of the [R] deep south states.

 

[lysan]

You what? I didn't moan about personal attacks so you can't say the same at all

You clearly do care because you're trying to tell everyone that wearing masks is unnecessary and therefore they shouldn't bother.

You don't live in a free country, you have to do a whole number of things to conform to governmental and societal rules. No one lives in a free country, there are just different levels of freedom.

So you want to protect yourself by asking me to block you while pretending it is me that needs protection lol.

It was my OPINION just like you told us your opinion!

 

[lysan]

What state would that be? I'm guessing one of the [R] deep south states.

LoL not going to tell you, I let that one be up to your imagination.

ok kids I’m off enjoy your mask and your confined life in the lockdown. I will now go out and enjoy life outside.

 

[Stigbob]

Lol really, so show me a clinical trial showing that mask work to stop the COVID which is also a virus like the influenza virus.

Here's a few all from just the one article.

The evidence overwhelmingly suggests that wearing a mask reduced transmissions of COVID-19. Here are the studies that prove it. According to a number of laboratory tests and multiple studies, the main value from wearing face masks is that they block up to 80% of these droplets from escaping into the air. They may also prevent about 50% of droplets from being inhaled too.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02786826.2020.1862409

Science | AAAS

advances.sciencemag.org

Case-Control Study of Use of Personal Protective Measures and Risk for SARS-CoV 2 Infection, Thailand - PubMed

We evaluated effectiveness of personal protective measures against severe acute respiratory disease coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection. Our case-control study included 211 cases of coronavirus disease (COVID-19) and 839 controls in Thailand. Cases were defined as asymptomatic contacts of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Cotic]

LoL not going to tell you, I let that one be up to your imagination.

ok kids I’m off enjoy your mask and your confined life in the lockdown. I will now go out and enjoy life outside.

I knew it. Bound to be one of those backwater places where they are happy for their constituents to die all in the name of owning the dems or libs...

I have to laugh at you guys. You need to strap on 3 or 4 guns just to leave the house because you're constantly told to be afraid but when another threat turns up putting a simple piece of fabric over your mouth and nose is just a step too far.

 

[Morbad]

Oh back to we care for other people, what a load of [redacted] I still live in a free state and we got a great governor and we can walk around without masks. If we all go the way of the dodo I guess you will be happy, however we get flooded from people fleeing other states.

I'm not sure what you're on about here.

My overriding concern is that you are going to be crapping all over my freedoms by perpetuating a pandemic that has a variety of direct and indirect negative effects for me and mine.

People like you (meaning anyone willfully ignorant of reality who insists upon behaving contrary to reason when it comes to transmissible disease) are why there is a pandemic. People like you are why it's taking so long to get under control. People like you are why we are having trouble keeping up with variants. People like you are why this disease threatens to become endemic. People like you are why we have mask mandates and other inconvenient restrictions.

It's you who are going to send us the way of the dodo. You want the freedom to do this. I want to be free from the plague you refuse to take measure to control.

 

[Stigbob]

I knew it. Bound to be one of those backwater places where they are happy for their constituents to die all in the name of owning the dems or libs...

I have to laugh at you guys. You need to strap on 3 or 4 guns just to leave the house because you're constantly told to be afraid but when another threat turns up putting a simple piece of fabric over your mouth and nose is just a step too far.

You can lead a horse to water .

"During the White House COVID-19 response team briefing on Thursday, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, said preliminary data from several states indicates that 99.5 percent of recent deaths from coronavirus are of individuals who were unvaccinated and could have been prevented with a vaccine. Walensky also said the rise in the number of cases due to the Delta variant is “troubling.”

CDC: 99.5% of COVID-19 deaths are from unvaccinated individuals

During the White House COVID-19 response team briefing on Thursday, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, said preliminary data from several states indicates that 99.5 percent of recent deaths from coronavirus are of individuals who were...

news.yahoo.com

 

[Cotic]

I'm not sure what you're on about here.

My overriding concern is that you are going to be crapping all over my freedoms by perpetuating a pandemic that has a variety of direct and indirect negative effects for me and mine.

People like you (meaning anyone willfully ignorant of reality who insists upon behaving contrary to reason when it comes to transmissible disease) are why there is a pandemic. People like you are why it's taking so long to get under control. People like you are why we are having trouble keeping up with variants. People like you are why this disease threatens to become endemic. People like you are why we have mask mandates and other inconvenient restrictions.

It's you who are going to send us the way of the dodo. You want the freedom to do this. I want to be free from the plague you refuse to take measure to control.

I don't think they care.

These people believe they are strong and only the strong survive. They hate progression and how it means men are not real men anymore so anyone who conforms is automatically weak. This nonsensical code gives them the right to trample all over their freedoms.

It's pretty ironic tbh. The old cowboys were viewed as hard men living difficult, dangerous lives but they wore bandanas to protect themselves from dust...

 

[Stigbob]

I don't think they care.

These people believe they are strong and only the strong survive. They hate progression and how it means men are not real men anymore so anyone who conforms is automatically weak. This nonsensical code gives them the right to trample all over their freedoms.

It's pretty ironic tbh. The old cowboys were viewed as hard men living difficult, dangerous lives but they wore bandanas to protect themselves from dust...

A viewpoint already debunked in the 1860's when they were outraged at the thought of vaccination against smallpox.

"The history of the anti-vaxxer narrative

The report by the Center for Countering Digital Hate (CCDH), The Anti-Vaxx Playbook, identifies three main aspects to the 2021 Covid anti-vaxxers’ narrative:

Covid is not dangerous
Covid vaccines are dangerous
Vaccine advocates cannot be trusted

Each of these has roots in the 1860s anti-vaxx movement."

“…There was no necessity for the small pox to be so bad as it frequently was… it could be stopped…”

Northampton Mercury, 14 November 1868

“….. Dr Dupré said… Vaccination was a piece of quackery and delusion… the rarity of smallpox at the present time was not due to vaccination, but to improved sanitary laws… he was convinced vaccination produced smallpox…”

Manchester Times, 10 July 1869

“…’I am convinced that it transmits serious diseases, such as scrofula, syphillis, and consumption… I prefer that my children should endure the complaints with which God… afflicts them…’”

Bucks Herald, 21 July 1869.

Anti-vaxxers past and present

Anti-vaxxers are not a new phenomenon, but a long-standing tradition almost as old as vaccines themselves. Pen Hemingway tells their history.

yorkshirebylines.co.uk

 

[Gortron]

I’m getting more and more concerned about “freedom day” on the 19th here in the U.K. I not totally against all of it but it doesn’t half feel like a gigantic science experiment given the huge rate of infection.

My employer sent an email out today saying they have a duty of care and as far as they are concerned nothing has changed. They are keeping all the restrictions in place. Work from home where possible, masks, distancing etc. I’m glad about that.

I hope operation herd immunity works and doesn’t just create COVID-21 the vaccine resistant variant and lockdowns by Christmas.

 

[Kaocraft]

"Masks don't work" is a blanket statement that is demonstrably false.

There are plenty of studies that show their effectiveness is dependent on the type and how they are worn and used. You even quoted some yourself.


No that doesn't invaildate them - it just means that more recent studies will take into account coronavirus.

Your most recent example compared the effectiveness of two different masks not masks versus no masks.

I aks again - what point are you trying to make with that? It literally shows that in that study both have an effect but it didn't detect much difference.

How does that support "masks don't work" in your opinion?

Yeah it's really two questions: "Do MASKS work?" in a material physical sense, vs "Does the practice of maskING work?" And the answer to the first question is pretty much "yes," whereas the answer to the second question is much more open, because it's dependent on training and tracking of peoples' behaviors, which is hard to do. And a lot of the early "masks don't work" rhetoric was really "masking as a practice doesn't work for the general public, because people don't do it right." But y'know people interpreted this in a really silly way, and then the interpretation was repeated as the fact itself. Like if you strap a handful of random people into some scuba gear and then throw them off a boat, they'll probably drown and the gear will drag them down faster than if they were naked, so if you wanted to be a jerk about it you could say that "scuba gear doesn't work, and may in fact be counterproductive"

 

[Ralph Vargr]

It’s not a bad policy in life in general. Being here and now in today is one way to actually get some enjoyment out of it.
It seems to be a general human trait to always consider that things ‘will be better in 5 years time’ and therefore skip enjoying the moment.
I try to plan for the future to some degree - but I’ve noticed that the camper van pot never gets any fuller, there’s always some unexpected needier cause ;-)

I did get out today- and discovered I need to fill the gas tank...

 

[Ralph Vargr]

I want my Tech Level 15 vacc suit.

 

[Gortron]

That’s fine I could say the same, I really don’t care what you do, Im happy I still live in a free country. So please block me and you will be in you happy space again.

You are already getting a lot of stick here and I don’t really want to add to that hostility because although I don’t agree with you on this, I understand where you are coming from.

The thing is you don’t live in a free country and nobody does. If you are truly free then take off all your clothes and run around naked in your nearest shopping Mail and see how long it takes for you to get arrested. Face-masks are the new underpants

Face masks are a temporary measure to stop us accidentally killing each other. They obviously do work (Asia has been doing it for decades) and even if they don’t how big a deal is it to wear pants (shorts) on your face for a year or so to try and stop people dying?

 

[Gortron]

Oh my god what are you talking about! I'm not looking for conspiracy theories! You telling me that conspiracy theories exist, does not back up a specific claim about a specific thing being a conspiracy theory, when it isn't one. General points about conspiracy theories does not address that.

Again, if you post a photo of a table and claim it's a rhinoceros and I say it isn't, pointing at an actual rhinoceros and saying "see, rhinoceroses exist" doesn't change a thing.

I know that rhinoceroses exist. I know that conspiracy theories exist. I know that "the virus is a hoax concocted by a Jewish elite" is a conspiracy theory. I know that "masks don't work", as a statement in and of itself (which was all the original post contained) is not a conspiracy theory, by the definition of the words.

That's really it. That's all I'm saying.

You could have said something like "on it's own no it isn't, but I strongly suspect it's an indication that the poster is buying into deeper conspiracy theories" and that would have been that. You could also have said "oh stop being so pedantic, you know what I meant" and that would have been that. But no, you had to insist repeatedly that words just have a new definition now. And call me a massive pedant (and you'd be right), but I can't help but argue with that. The statement was not a conspiracy theory because it made no mention of a conspiracy. That's all there is to it.

You are right saying that wearing a mask doesn’t work isn’t of itself a conspiracy theory but that is the primary lie in most them. You could take everything up to ‘isn’t’ on this post as a quote and it would make it sound like I agree with you…

The literal meaning of words isn’t what most of the people that post here care about… myself included

 

[sewerratuk]

You are right saying that wearing a mask doesn’t work isn’t of itself a conspiracy theory but that is the primary lie in most them. You could take everything up to ‘isn’t’ on this post as a quote and it would make it sound like I agree with you…

The literal meaning of words isn’t what most of the people that post here care about… myself included

There is a theory that mask manufacturers have conspired to make masks compulsory… and now they rule the world
Ok I added the last bit myself to see if I could get a new one started but I have heard the first part batted about

 

[Gortron]

There is a theory that mask manufacturers have conspired to make masks compulsory… and now they rule the world
Ok I added the last bit myself to see if I could get a new one started but I have heard the first part batted about

Hehe…that’s obviously though since we are told not to use surgical masks. The people that think it’s part of conspiracy think it’s to do with control. They call the masks “muzzles”.

I’m pretty sure anyone wearing a mask could bite someone that wasn’t.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

No vaccines( mostly young people)
No restrictions( mingle freely)
No masks

1,000 people at Utrecht festival infected with coronavirus - DutchNews.nl

Around 1,000 visitors to a festival in Utrecht held over the first weekend in July are now known to have picked up coronavirus there. In total, 20,000 people attended the Verknipt outdoor festival and the infections were spread over both days, according to local health board figures. The...

www.dutchnews.nl

1000 infected. Unbelievably, they couldn't see it coming.

More than half of the Dutch think the cabinet was irresponsible when it decided to scrap most of the coronavirus measures on June 26, and 41% say tougher rules should be brought back, according to I&O Research.

Read more at DutchNews.nl: