Me neither, but as i understand the difference between fully supported VR and hacked in VR is rather significant.
But my only experience of VR is PS4 Skyrim, which was not that impressive.
Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12
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Me neither, but as i understand the difference between fully supported VR and hacked in VR is rather significant.
But my only experience of VR is PS4 Skyrim, which was not that impressive.
What makes you think so?
Oof, that's got to add some latency. I have a friend who has a company making hardware/software that reduces latency for VR solutions because even full VR solutions built from the ground up can cause problems for the users.
Yeah AFAIK one of the reasons that 90fps per eye is considered gold standard on the render side is that it helps keep the headlook smooth and naturalistic. Which is a big boon for immersion when it’s all slick (anywhere you look, anything you snatch a glance at, bob around etc all smoothly retains the illusion of an existing world with dimension etc). And a known nausea cause for susceptible players when it’s missing those marks by too much.
I doubt it would be much of an issue on those fronts when viewing a 2D screen in single render. But it still wouldn’t be a great experience
Hah no, non of this is due to VR development by CIG. Chachi there (the guy featured in the first vid), is using various 3rd party programs (most notably vorpX) to view the game inside his headset. This is stuff VR guys try in a ton of 2D games, normally with underwhelming results.
He’s then piggybacking on the TrackIR headlook function supported in game, to get some headlook functionality (but with much more delay than natively supported headlook, an issue for both gameplay and comfort).
Ultimately he’s still just looking at a 2D screen floating in his headset though.
(The fact that the cockpits look off in any hacky attempts at actual stereo rendering suggests the opposite of work done by CIG incidentally. It suggests they have plenty to do there
TLDR: This is all homebrew stuff. And not a VR experience in most key respects.
Why always black or white and usually black with you guys?
None of which would work if the skeleton rigging was not there, you can not have all axis freedom of movement if the rig is not set up for it.
TrackIR is not even remotely comparable to VR. VR, in order to work, need full 6 axis movement with sub-10ms latency, and full stereoscopic vision, in order to fool the brain and have it believe what is seen is real. Hence the name. Projecting a flat screen inside a VR headset is not VR. Using trackIR is not VR. Google cardboard is not VR. Try it someday with a good headset (like those gen 2 headsets) and understand how it's different...
The latency i'm away of the problem with that.
Please explain 6 axis movement and describe how that in the video its not, if its not.
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Because I know the techniques he's using, and none of it requires (or suggests) native VR support work by CIG. Which is what you were stating ¯\(ツ)/¯. IE "clearly it is being worked on" and "in active development".
The TrackIR trick is neat (and I'd love to use it in EDO with native VR - see the 'guesstimate' section here
)But it's still just a homebrew trick riding on a non-VR feature.
On rigging do you mean the avatar's head? I'm not clear whether it's actually matching the headlook with TrackIR, but even if it were, that would still be part and parcel of the TrackIR support. Something that could be useful for VR down the line, sure, but very much on the 'finishing touches' end. They've got lots of far more fundamental stuff they'd need to address first.
Any VR implementation is likely to dump the unified avatar model anyway, as the canned animations & 'hawk bob' would be nausea city even for the hardy. Plus wouldn't work alongside any IK arms to represent motion controller use (pretty much a necessity for a modern multiplayer VR game with a serious art style - floating hands would be a no-no
). They'd most likely have to just have a floating camera with a bespoke av for the purpose.Ultimately, there's nothing in Chachi's exploits that suggests dedicated work has begun on VR support. And CIG themselves say they are not working on VR currently. Even the eager dev who wants to get cracking on it has said as much:
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/mflri3/just_look_what_you_made_me_do_chris_this_is_you/gsoujms/
I'm genuinely not picking a fight, or saying 'CIG bad'. I'm just saying you'e reading too much into some homebrew tricks
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Not listening to the skeptics is probably one of the more sensible things he did...he's been aware of SC for quite some time by his own admission, he was also well aware of the 'Scam Citizen' line of commentary (like anyone else who hasn't lived in a convent for the last 10 years). Never the less, he went in and tried it for himself for free on his brother's account and genuinely liked it... rather than listening to someone who has probably never played the game but is quite happy to drag the discussion onto Ci¬G's business practises rather than discuss what he could realistically expect from the game itself...Watching.
Agree with his statement that the in-game community is generally nice. But ok, can say that about many games. The ED community in-game is generally nice, with the odd exception, same as in SC.
Haha, he had a mullet as a kid. I can sympathise.
He knew he didn't like the pricing structure, the bugs, the performance, so he's aware of that (maybe not fully informed about the lies, but ok).
First impressions good. Nice.
Fell to his death twice... ooops. Oh well, teething issues.
30k. Feels frustrated.
Starts mining, enjoying, says its as good as it was made out to be (mining is one activity that CIG have actually done well on though from many sources).
Killed by another player. Quits game.
Went back in (persistent).
Says overall, rewarded with a fantastic game.
"Most amazing community" - while i won't disagree, its worth remembering this is not a released game, largely populated by big and dedicated fans. Let's see how global chat looks if SC ever releases.
Game deleted his hand mining tool and he had no credits. Player sends him credits (funny how often the solution to bugs is just for other players to send money).
Players were being really nice, including one called "Jared" - hmmmm.....
Another player flew to location just to lead him around (large areas issues, not new player friendly, veterans know where to go).
Ok, its 40 mins long and got work to do, so i'll jump to the end here.
Final thoughts:
Glad he didn't listen to the "scam citizen crowd" - ok, so basically he's saying he's ignored all the information people might have tried to give him about why some people have issues with CIG. He should have listened and then made up his mind.
"I see vision and passion" - neither of which ensure the promised game will be delivered.
"This could single handedly be one of the best and most detailed games ever" - ooooh, he's got the fever.
"will i throw money at it? No" - good man, he hasn't got it that hard... although maybe in a few months he will be coincierge
"Would i recommend this game to you?" - for me, yes, but with a few caveats. "Its alpha"
"Not a huge amount of content in the game yet"
"If you can afford it and you don't mind the risk, then yes" - not exact text, close enough.
Overall, likes the game, aware of most issues, did not listen to the skeptics (willful ignorance), had fun despite bugs, etc. Would recommend only if you're prepared to play an alpha game with limited content but if so then he thinks you will enjoy it.
So... not bad, just a shame about him dismissing skeptics without listening to them. Otherwise quite fair review. He doesn't hide his early frustrations and doesn't try and and sell it as being more than it is.
You could learn some things from him Little Ant.
I can't fault his approach of just going in and finding out for himself... neither as a cynic or a player
SDC are also active in SC...yes...the same SDCyou are in SDC? like in the SDC that infiltrated Mobius?
I have questions
are you in SDC too Mole?SDC are also active in SC...yes...the same SDC
He's the worst of them all. The cows command him to do all the atrocities.
The very same. Never far from the salt
December 2019
I think that about this time next year, things will be a lot clearer.
They're going to meet their current deadlines for SQ42, mostly because they have to. SC will follow soon after.
Don't expect ship sales to stop though. That's not gonna happen.
Also, I've never believed they would release with all of their kickstarter goals delivered (100 systems being the biggest of these, imo).
But they're going to deliver something and call it a release.
It'll be fun to see how many people they manage to infuriate when it happens.
Regardless... SDC will be there to harvest all the salty tears, and all will be right in the 'verse.
Zo7
Because I know the techniques he's using, and none of it requires (or suggests) native VR support work by CIG. Which is what you were stating ¯\(ツ)/¯. IE "clearly it is being worked on" and "in active development".
The TrackIR trick is neat (and I'd love to use it in EDO with native VR - see the 'guesstimate' section here
But it's still just a homebrew trick riding on a non-VR feature.
On rigging do you mean the avatar's head? I'm not clear whether it's actually matching the headlook with TrackIR, but even if it were, that would still be part and parcel of the TrackIR support. Something that could be useful for VR down the line, sure, but very much on the 'finishing touches' end. They've got lots of far more fundamental stuff they'd need to address first.
Any VR implementation is likely to dump the unified avatar model anyway, as the canned animations & 'hawk bob' would be nausea city even for the hardy. Plus wouldn't work alongside any IK arms to represent motion controller use (pretty much a necessity for a modern multiplayer VR game with a serious art style - floating hands would be a no-no
Ultimately, there's nothing in Chachi's exploits that suggests dedicated work has begun on VR support. And CIG themselves say they are not working on VR currently. Even the eager dev who wants to get cracking on it has said as much:
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/mflri3/just_look_what_you_made_me_do_chris_this_is_you/gsoujms/
I'm genuinely not picking a fight, or saying 'CIG bad'. I'm just saying you'e reading too much into some homebrew tricks
Its always a good idea to temper expectations which is why i'm all for criticism, that way they are expecting a "buggy mess of a game" and if their experience is better than those expectations its just that much more of a surprise to them.
However, and i'm not pointing at you or anyone specific, to go the opposite end of white knighting and be completely black piled about it is just as problematic, it doesn't stop people from trying it out and when they do find its nothing at all like they had been led to believe suddenly the critics of it are at least treated with suspicion.
Never say never because one thing is for damn sure, CIG are ambitious, to the point of "X, Y and Z will never happen" is like a red rag to a bull to them and they have the backing and the talent to have at least as good a go at it as anyone.
We are mostly pointing out the pure nollocks. Like "... it [VR] is in active development. That much seems clear."
Because you cannot get that level of freedom of movement as seen in that video unless the Avatar rig is setup for VR, the fact that it has that at the very least signifies intent.
One other thing, if you're finalising the player rigs now then now is the time to make those rigs compatible, even if actual VR support is 97 years down the line.
Not the point. The point is that it's not developped.
The latency is the core of the issue actually. For VR to work, and trick your brain, you need to get below a certain latency. Otherwise your inner ear will give conflicting information and your brain will just reject what you see as invalid (and probably empty your stomach, too, for good measure).
Real VR headsets have sub-millimeter 6 DoF position tracking, reflecting your own subconscious movements, that your brain actually tracks. Your breathing, or even heartbeat for example, create these movements that you HAVE to track properly, and this tracking has to exactly match each eye vision, and all of that under that aforementioned latency.
TrackIR is not even remotely close on any of these parameters, to start with your head movement and eye tracking are all wrong (*). That's why for this hack they project the game on a flat surface: the tracking is off (and TrackIR is definitely not meant for that, no bashing that device here, love it for DCS, it's just meant for a different purpose..).
None of the brain trickery is happening here. What you see is still a flat screen in the end.
(*) Since trackIR is meant for simulating head movements on fixed 2D screen, the relationship between your head tracking and actual virtual movement is not 1:1...