Drew Wagar's Thoughts

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My fully engineered corvette means SO much to me, i love the ship to bits...why? becourse its SO hard to get... it takes time, effort and some skill to eventually get and as such, it has value...

Hmm. We seem to be at very opposite ends of the spectrum. I don't enjoy a ship more or less depending on how hard it is to get and how much grind i had to put into getting it. I enjoy my ships for how they handle and what i can do with them. The fun of flying spaceships is what kept me in game despite how bad things like Engineers, PP and some other stuff was implemented.

No matter how terrible those things, the fun of flying spaceships just made me keep going.

Which is why i am quite annoyed of the new planets: i so very much loved to fly to a planet and land there. Different colors and patterns, nice. The same thing in Odyssey feels bland. And it's not just me. My wife, who does not play at all, merely sometimes sits behind me at the sofa and does other stuff, at some time asked me why i am not flying to colorful planets any more. And there was no answer i could give which would be nice towards the game...

But that's now drifting away. The point really is: i personally just don't get it, why people value grind so much. There's so many reasons why a game can be enjoyed. The mere basis on how much time you already invested into it, at least in my eyes, is not one of them.
 
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I know what you mean. EDs biggest flaw is that its a game you love to think about and theorycraft with Galnet etc, and when it comes time to click [PLAY] all the tedium of achieving that goal flashes in front of you and you close the launcher.
For me it's not just that, I could work around that in all probability, it's how Odyssey has impacted almost every single corner of the game. It feels and looks different, and in my opinion not better but worse, not just performance but the look of the game (variable and inconsistent lighting, cosmetics, shadows, LoD missing like the engine trails, etc.) which I'm not sure will ever be addressed.

And if we see how long certain gamebreaking bugs and poor design decisions are left in the game, given how many things are not working as intended I don't know how long it'll take for things to be playable again. So they could add 10 new ships, 15 new SRVs, Thargoids on foot, ship interiors (jk), it wouldn't really make a difference to me now because to me the game is so fundamentally broken it's hard to envisage how long it'll take to have something resembling Horizons pre-EDO launch in terms of performance, playability (even with megaships being broken etc.) and visuals but that includes the Odyssey content as well.
 
I can't possibly agree with this part of your post. At the moment there are many more broken missions than there were at release, and there has been effectively no progress at all on the performance problems that are the first thing most people seem to notice. If Odyssey were released in this state the result would have been pretty much the same as it was.

I can only speak of how things are for me here: the first few weeks after launch, everything was dark, no matter how far i moved the gamma slider up. Framerate was possible to count manually and i had colorful snake disconnects every few minutes. I did not even get as far as to say that missions are broken.

So yes, i have read that things are not fixed for everybody yet. Perhaps my statement was too optimistic. But i stand to the general notion of what i wrote: the game exploded all around me the first few weeks. After update 5, i now am able to play.

Yes, it all feels empty, missions might still be broken, the new interface still is only a bit better than during the beta and, while pretty, not as ergonomical as the old one and i really don't find anything in Odyssey which i would like to do. But from the purely technical side, things have gotten a lot better with update 5, at least for me.
 
That would be the kinder conclusion. Mine would go into the realm of conspiracy theories and has to do with shareholders and the fact that EDO is not Frontier's only project, possibly not even the most profitable. Whether it is a loss to the company or not would be the speculative part and where the typical reaction to pushing shareholders would take place. I sincerely hope I am wrong in this fictive scenario.

I don't know if my statement is more kind. We're kind of between "managers are incompetent" and "managers are so greedy that the are willing to sacrifice the game and company for their own benefit". (Mind you, my bad experience with deliveries being too early was all based on managers having the delivery date as milestone in their agreement. So they did everything they could to have the software delivered on that date, just so they got the payment, no mater of the consequences for the customer and company. I am glad i don't work there any more... )

But on it not being important to FD: if that was true, neither would the shares price of FD have dropped like they did, not would DB have seen himself forced to by now write three appologies to the community. So i personally think what happened was not due FD considering ED to be of no importance any more. But due to very bad management decissions connected to the release date and their business year.
 
I've been playing since mid 2015, but never heard about that. Thank you for the information. Which set-pieces would that have been? I have experienced most of the lore and the events as text only through Galnet.

Well, the one I remember was this, which had a big build up, but then kinda went pear-shaped in practice... 😅
 
For me it's not just that, I could work around that in all probability, it's how Odyssey has impacted almost every single corner of the game. It feels and looks different, and in my opinion not better but worse, not just performance but the look of the game (variable and inconsistent lighting, cosmetics, shadows, LoD missing like the engine trails, etc.) which I'm not sure will ever be addressed.

And if we see how long certain gamebreaking bugs and poor design decisions are left in the game, given how many things are not working as intended I don't know how long it'll take for things to be playable again. So they could add 10 new ships, 15 new SRVs, Thargoids on foot, ship interiors (jk), it wouldn't really make a difference to me now because to me the game is so fundamentally broken it's hard to envisage how long it'll take to have something resembling Horizons pre-EDO launch in terms of performance, playability (even with megaships being broken etc.) and visuals but that includes the Odyssey content as well.
For me its knowing what doing something breaks down into. The BGS is like Tesco shopping really. 30 data here and there, kill 50 cops....it never feels spontaneous. High level play (i.e. bringing skills together for more involved goals) is not more skillful, it just requires more of the same easy short game loops and that to me is like a smack to the testiclé.
 
At one point we could influence its story, albeit it rarely (see the whole Jaques thing for how player actions changed the course of what Fdev had in store for him) and the other events that were mentioned. But not anymore.
Rarely is the key - and also largely unintentionally, since none of the players involved in the various crucial steps of how Jaques ended up where he did had that specific outcome in mind (some were trying explicity to achieve something else ... most were just seeing what happened if they did something potentially interesting).

That said - and with the note that it is rare - "not anymore" is I think untrue, and the recent storyline seems to be deliberately taking account of player actions where practical, at if anything a higher density than historically found.

* The Alliance takeover of Witch Head after the end of the Enclave Initiative, while not entirely unpredictable, was certainly not inevitable, and only happened because of player action (through the in-game mechanics of the BGS). As a result, the current storyline has the joint AEGIS initiative largely abandoned by the Federation and Empire, and the Alliance facing/poking the Thargoids alone.

* The BGS position of the Marlinist colonies (and the efforts of at least one player group formed to influence this) have been directly noted in Galnet.

* The adoption of Hadrian Duval and Nova Imperium by an organised player group led to the Federation suffering a shock defeat (and reading between the lines, one which slightly surprised Frontier's writers too)

* Several other CGs and parts of storyline have followed on from others in a way which couldn't have happened had the other side won a previous one [1]. I'm sure that Frontier had plans for both possible outcomes, of course, but minor things like "does the Federation have an aggressive pro-corporatist movement?" or "how openly can the NMLA operate?" are still being influenced.

* While the odds are against it due to the sheer size of the search zone, it's certainly implied that someone could stumble across the Scrivener Dredger "before" the next stage of that plot (and it may be that someone does need to for the next stage of the plot to start, though that feels less likely).



[1] There's a definite change of pace here between "Act 1" of the current storyline (between the first NMLA bombs going off and the Sirius summit being interrupted by the Nine Martyrs' attack) in which player actions would largely have led to merely cosmetic changes if CGs had gone the other way ... and the current second act where they also lead to minor changes in direction and future events.

From what they've said the consequences of collective player actions are likely to get larger as the story progresses.
 
I just bought NMS on PS store. It's 50% off now.

Since no Odyssey in sight for us console peasants, I will settle with less serious cartoonish game(what do I know, I play Elite on ps4🤪).

And if it's good enough for @drew, it's good enough for me.

Anyway... Yay, I have space legs now 🥳😁
 
I just bought NMS on PS store. It's 50% off now.

Since no Odyssey in sight for us console peasants, I will settle with less serious cartoonish game(what do I know, I play Elite on ps4🤪).

And if it's good enough for @drew, it's good enough for me.

Anyway... Yay, I have space legs now 🥳😁
More than that... Space Legs with full (and very good) VR support.

NMS is a good game, hope you enjoy it. I enjoy playing my copy, but it just doesn't satisfy me as much as ED (or EDO) does. I have around 400 hours in NMS logged. I have about 5000 hours in Elite.
 
I guess that's where the confusion is with your initial post then. You were talking about a game that isn't Elite Dangerous, and never was, or will be. I was talking in respect to what Elite Dangerous actually is. Its a spectators game (as far as its story goes). A game where we're all on the sidelines looking on, trying to pretend we're part of Frontiers narrative, that we can effect things that change Fdevs thinking, mould the world around us. We can't. At one point we could influence its story, albeit it rarely (see the whole Jaques thing for how player actions changed the course of what Fdev had in store for him) and the other events that were mentioned. But not anymore.

I would love this game to have an interactive story, and yes one where the actual game mechanics themselves allow us to mould aspects of it, but you pretty much said it yourself, Elite Dangerous will never be that game.

As far as the Jaques thing goes, yes, I remember how one or more pilots "bombed" the station with Thargoid probes (had a different name back then, can't recall right now) which normally disables services. Supposedly that is why the station misjumped and ended up where it did.

However, has FDev ever actually stated what the original plan was? I know Jaques' destination was Beagle point, but did they intend for him to actually make it? Or would something else have happened. Just curious if I missed something....
 
I just bought NMS on PS store. It's 50% off now.

Since no Odyssey in sight for us console peasants, I will settle with less serious cartoonish game(what do I know, I play Elite on ps4🤪).

And if it's good enough for @drew, it's good enough for me.

Anyway... Yay, I have space legs now 🥳😁
I originally bought NMS in the early days as a physical disk. It was a used copy, so I got it for like $10 or $15. This story is relevant because I bought it a couple of months before ED went live on PS4. I was so excited to play a space game like ED that I just couldn't wait! Even back then I got lots of enjoyment out of it.

Now I'm playing it again on PC (just grabbed it a few days ago), and wow has it come a long way! I should be playing X4, but I'm kinda addicted to the "I've got to finish the next project" aspect of NMS.
 
I originally bought NMS in the early days as a physical disk. It was a used copy, so I got it for like $10 or $15. This story is relevant because I bought it a couple of months before ED went live on PS4. I was so excited to play a space game like ED that I just couldn't wait! Even back then I got lots of enjoyment out of it.

Now I'm playing it again on PC (just grabbed it a few days ago), and wow has it come a long way! I should be playing X4, but I'm kinda addicted to the "I've got to finish the next project" aspect of NMS.
"wow has it come a long way!" is an understatement. :)

Just a short list of things they added over the years that was amazing:
1. Multiple surface vehicles, with modifications
2. Living starships
3. A mech that you can pilot on planets
4. Fully immersive VR support
5. Abandoned freighters to discover and board.
6. Random space encounters (some are truly bizarre)

And they have organized community events! Usually weekend community missions, but recently expanded to "limited time only" expeditions. The events alone are cool, but the exclusive rewards are amazing. I got the SR-1 Normandy as a frigate in my fleet thanks to the the last expedition.

It is truly an amazing game. It just doesn't keep me hooked the same way ED does...
 
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