Drew Wagar's Thoughts

[Deleted member 182079]

I don't really play much of the AssCreeds out there (actually none) but had some FarCry, Vice City Rockstar, Fallout yadayada. I think Bethesda Fallout kinda stands out from the crowd with the world building, but like I say no Watchdog, AC, Horizon, Red Dead thungas. These Open Worlds kinda have a "pearl collier" as storyline. It's there to guide around the map as literally a guide. The good ones of them don't need it and the world is actually the game. They usually don't shine much in story quality either. And the RPG aspect like character building is very limited - down to non-existant for companions.

I think I prefer more focused game environments to tell a story. While I enjoyed GTA5's single player, that's mostly because of the interesting/funny characters and/or situations you were put in (I liked the heist setup and execution bits a lot), the template is getting pretty tired now and RDR2, while having one of the most detailed and immersive environments ever created, kind of leaves me cold in terms of wanting to progress through it.

Witcher 3's writing and story (which wasn't even all that special, but the delivery and overall tone made a difference) was excellent in hiding the more mundane gameplay mechanics (go there, fetch that, fight that).

Fallout is a funny one - the world building is indeed great, even if the main story arch isn't always super inspired or even logical ("where's mah baby!!!! oh I better help some random strangers fight monsters... baby can wait" etc.). Then there's the Souls games - loads of lore but not very accessible. You essentially just play through the maps, the storytelling is quite minimalistic but I think it works as you can just ignore the lore if you want to.

TLoU really stood out and for me is still the best story in any computer/video game I ever played; the entire game is close to perfection to me for what it tried to achieve, especially on such now ancient tech (PS3 player here). I'd watch it on Netflix never mind play through it myself. Game of a generation.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

Is the entire (or even a significant percentage) playerbase wanting ship interiors? From some comments here, even walking the length of the docking bay is tiresome...

Perhaps Frotier do understand the majority of their playerbase?

I think the majority of the playerbase don't understand themselves.

Space legs were the #1 item on the playerbase wishlist, so was the exploration mini-game update during Beyond. I'd argue this game got derailed when dev vision was overwritten by popular demand.

 

[Rat Catcher]

I think the majority of the playerbase don't understand themselves.

Space legs were the #1 item on the playerbase wishlist, so was the exploration mini-game update during Beyond. I'd argue this game got derailed when dev vision was overwritten by popular demand.

Forum members also have a tendency to assume that they are the majority voice...

FWIW, I agree with your observation - nicely said.

 

[Xae]

I think the majority of the playerbase don't understand themselves.

Space legs were the #1 item on the playerbase wishlist, so was the exploration mini-game update during Beyond. I'd argue this game got derailed when dev vision was overwritten by popular demand.

What people want is meaningful content.

Not making ship interiors means content like boarding, repairing through eva, etc are not going to happen. Ever.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I think I prefer more focused game environments to tell a story. While I enjoyed GTA5's single player, that's mostly because of the interesting/funny characters and/or situations you were put in (I liked the heist setup and execution bits a lot), the template is getting pretty tired now and RDR2, while having one of the most detailed and immersive environments ever created, kind of leaves me cold in terms of wanting to progress through it.

Witcher 3's writing and story (which wasn't even all that special, but the delivery and overall tone made a difference) was excellent in hiding the more mundane gameplay mechanics (go there, fetch that, fight that).

Fallout is a funny one - the world building is indeed great, even if the main story arch isn't always super inspired or even logical ("where's mah baby!!!! oh I better help some random strangers fight monsters... baby can wait" etc.). Then there's the Souls games - loads of lore but not very accessible. You essentially just play through the maps, the storytelling is quite minimalistic but I think it works as you can just ignore the lore if you want to.

TLoU really stood out and for me is still the best story in any computer/video game I ever played; the entire game is close to perfection to me for what it tried to achieve, especially on such now ancient tech (PS3 player here). I'd watch it on Netflix never mind play through it myself. Game of a generation.

I don't even know if it's playable on PC. All the Lasts of Uss and Zombie R Uss kinda went past me, especially when they were console exclusives.

In fact I had more memorable playthroughs with Long Dark Survival than many story driven games. Today I can't remember a fraction of BG Shadow of Amn anymore. But I know how I beat the enemy Carrier in Carrier Command. How I caught me first fish in Long Dark. Discovered some remote stuff. Fought a Deathclaw from a Lighthouse in Fallout. Having my custom antimagic dwarf beat the crap out of a high level Lich in BG. These moments stick. Narration and lore is good for setting, complex plots are kinda wasted on me.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

What people want is meaningful content.

Not making ship interiors means content like boarding, repairing through eva, etc are not going to happen. Ever.

Repairing through EVA strictly only requires ship exteriors, so could still happen ... but then, I can already repair my ship with some combination of AFMU, Repair Limpets, and "flying 5 minutes to the nearest station", so I'm not sure when I'd actually need to go EVA to make repairs anyway. It feels like it would be a lot of work for something people would do once, say "cool", and then never actually use in practice.

Boarding ... again, given the game mechanics for flying spaceships, how often would it get used? You're not going to let people - player or NPC - board your own ship any more than you currently let people blow it up ... and boarding an NPC ship would require bringing it to a stop first without destroying it, which isn't exactly straightforward, while leaving you extremely vulnerable to anyone else showing up in the instance and firing on either ship. (You could explore wrecks, of course - and I hope we can, someday - but they don't need to implement interiors for non-wrecked ships to do that, or manage all the "what if" questions that boarding flyable ships would raise)

So no, I don't expect either of those to happen.

Always the problem with ship interiors: the things that you can do with them are all one of
- sightseeing/immersion with no mechanical use ... not a bad thing, but not something an expansion can be built around
- things we can basically do already (load cargo, repair our ship, etc.) and would just get less efficient if we had to do them ourselves
- things which make things more difficult (being boarded, internal fires, damage an AFMU can't repair, etc.) which would actively discourage a lot of players from getting the expansion
Odyssey gets enough complaints that it's not as efficient as Horizons for making money as it is - imagine the complaints if buying an expansion actually slowed you down!

 

[jj.justme]

Wagar has provided a great loudspeaker for those of us who think like him, but we have not had the same "clout" and close relationship as he has had in the recent past with Frontier in the development of events in and out of the game.

A serious warning to Frontier and their development policy for this game that, on this occasion, does not come from a "random" person.

 

[shevek]

.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

Repairing through EVA strictly only requires ship exteriors, so could still happen ... but then, I can already repair my ship with some combination of AFMU, Repair Limpets, and "flying 5 minutes to the nearest station", so I'm not sure when I'd actually need to go EVA to make repairs anyway. It feels like it would be a lot of work for something people would do once, say "cool", and then never actually use in practice.

Boarding ... again, given the game mechanics for flying spaceships, how often would it get used? You're not going to let people - player or NPC - board your own ship any more than you currently let people blow it up ... and boarding an NPC ship would require bringing it to a stop first without destroying it, which isn't exactly straightforward, while leaving you extremely vulnerable to anyone else showing up in the instance and firing on either ship. (You could explore wrecks, of course - and I hope we can, someday - but they don't need to implement interiors for non-wrecked ships to do that, or manage all the "what if" questions that boarding flyable ships would raise)

So no, I don't expect either of those to happen.

Always the problem with ship interiors: the things that you can do with them are all one of
- sightseeing/immersion with no mechanical use ... not a bad thing, but not something an expansion can be built around
- things we can basically do already (load cargo, repair our ship, etc.) and would just get less efficient if we had to do them ourselves
- things which make things more difficult (being boarded, internal fires, damage an AFMU can't repair, etc.) which would actively discourage a lot of players from getting the expansion
Odyssey gets enough complaints that it's not as efficient as Horizons for making money as it is - imagine the complaints if buying an expansion actually slowed you down!

I completely agree, especially when Obsidian Ant explains why ship interiors are a must, then goes on to complain that super cruise is too time consuming. EVA ship repairs would only make sense in deep space, a niche requirement especially with plenty of DSAA carriers dotted around in the galaxy.
I think that reflects again on why building a game on player feedback is a bad idea.

As for efficiently making money, the broken economy is another aspect of said feedback ("we want more gold rushes and exploits"), rendering most ships obsolete roleplaying aside. I was long waiting how Odyssey will make on-foot missions appealing vs. three-times overlap mining.

It this point I think FDev is at a 'damned if they do, damned if the don't' situation with this game.

 

[Frankymole]

Drew discusses the year ahead, the core gameplay big new feature, and FDev's communications:

[REDACTED: Content contains discussion on non-EULA compliant topic.]

 

[Ozric]

What is it with 3 year old necros recently?