How could players be encouraged to put themselves into dangerous pvp scenarios, even when they don't have to?

[Bigmaec]

What could be put in place to stop a player exiting the game? If the attacker decided to loiter in the area until they came back online they may wait a long time as the player behind the intended target could already have logged on to an altCMDR to continue.

Not much to do about this one except some Karma system that gives you points for logging off in the vincinity of other players.
But that's way too much hazzle for this game. It's beyond redeemable for PvP anyways, now that FD chose to even further the gap by adding more unique
stuff, instead of fixing the old problems. shrugs

 

[[VR] James Constantine]

Not much to do about this one except some Karma system that gives you points for logging off in the vincinity of other players.
But that's way too much hazzle for this game. It's beyond redeemable for PvP anyways, now that FD chose to even further the gap by adding more unique
stuff, instead of fixing the old problems. shrugs

Thing is ED is not a PvP game. It is a game that includes PvP, but it is not primarily, and never will be, a PvP game and so will never be redeemable. If what you want is a PvP game, there's Eve Online or SW Squadrons, but ED isn't it.

 

[Bigmaec]

Thing is ED is not a PvP game. It is a game that includes PvP, but it is not primarily, and never will be, a PvP game and so will never be redeemable. If what you want is a PvP game, there's Eve Online or SW Squadrons, but ED isn't it.

That's debatable. But the conclusion is the same, PvP doesn't work very well in Elite.

 

[[VR] James Constantine]

That's debatable. But the conclusion is the same, PvP doesn't work very well in Elite.

It's not. There's a large proportion, probably a majority, that do not play it or want it as a PvP game. The game mechanics are not of a PvP game, but a game with optional PvP. There's nothing debatable about that, no matter how much you close your eyes and wish really hard.

 

[Bigmaec]

It's not. There's a large proportion, probably a majority, that do not play it or want it as a PvP game. The game mechanics are not of a PvP game, but a game with optional PvP. There's nothing debatable about that, no matter how much you close your eyes and wish really hard.

 

[[VR] James Constantine]

View attachment 251651

Sure, but at least the facts back my opinion.

 

[physical0]

No. It's your claim, so up to you to demonstrate it. I'm not interested in going on a wild goose chase to look for something you never wrote.

Are you suggesting that criminals should not be targeted? I take it bounties are wrong then?

Without a temporary permit lock in place, you'd just get the same ganker repeatedly jumping in and camping in a system, making play impossible for anyone there. Bare in mind, I did say that any permit lock would be valid for entering the system. If already in te system, it is a moot point, but to date you seem averse to anything that would act as a consequence for illegal action and that simply won't fly.

All you seem to accept is slaps on the wrist though.

I've read what I've posted. I worry you misread somewhere. I don't need clumsy attempts to take words out of context, so I suggest you go back and try to understand what I mean and not worry about quoting me back to myself.
Bounties are bad? That's some wild hyperbole there. No, I think that targeted harassment is bad. I feel my explanation was concise.

Permit locking isn't required if the security level had appropriate response. Camping in a high sec as a criminal should be virtually impossible. If permit locking is necessary, then the security response should be made greater instead.

Illegal actions are part of the game. They can happen in solo and they can happen to npcs. Treating it like it's behavior that deserves punishment is silly.
Proper protection in high security areas would be sufficient to keep pve players safe. I don't want slaps on the wrist either because it's all pointless meaningless that will not deter ganking. It just makes hassle for ppl who dock before asking permission or when a cop dives into your line of fire.
Even the current prison ship crap is . It's silly how many people end up going to them for pointless stuff.
Give the criminals tools to commit the crime and they will have things to do while they are living on the fringe,
I tried a life of crime once (in solo). It was boring and the pay sucked.

Let's try and keep it honest. You arent gonna deter ganking by threatening punishment. Stopping ganking happens by the game producing a reasonable security response and chasing the ganker away before he can gank. You don't need to punish a ganker who couldn't gank.

 

[ethelred]

Meanwhile irl the lower the crime rate of an area the higher the property value and the more expensive the stores and lucrative the business typically is there and all crime ridden ghettos are poor, run down and typically have pretty crappy low paying jobs to offer

Heh, the city of London is pretty smart and yet the people and companies there are committing crimes that would boggle your mind.

#littlebitofpolitics

 

[Robert Maynard]

That's debatable. But the conclusion is the same, PvP doesn't work very well in Elite.

Debatable indeed. Here's what DBOBE said on the topic during the Engineers launch stream:

Source: https://youtu.be/gEtHu3AXw2Q?t=2649

 

[ethelred]

Bounties are bad? That's some wild hyperbole there. No, I think that targeted harassment is bad. I feel my explanation was concise.

Can you expand further on this?

What EDR does is make bounty hunting viable, otherwise you are hunting for a needle in a haystack.

If you're popping traders in a system, doesn't it make more sense that whilst you're in the jurisdiction where this is occuring you'll be tracked by security forces? Like a ambulance chasing lawyer, wouldn't bounty hunters tune into this to enable them to find marks?

Assume that the system state (e.g. gov type and security) has an effect on how "visible" they are.

Assume there is an escape mechanism and even pirate specific modules that can scramble your ID, therefore making you harder to track.

Live by the sword, die by the sword no?

 

[Brrokk]

...This is ultimately why I think this discussion is a waste of time. You want to see more players in open, so you can blow them up, yet you don't want to make it harder to do so. Well, guess what? Unless you do, you won't get more players in open and you can navel-gaze all you want and it's not going to make any difference.

Unless it become very hard to engage in PvP in high security systems, progressively getting less hard as the security level decreases, all you're asking for is to have your cake and eat it. And you can do that all on your own.
...

Yup, that's the dilemma I've previously referred to. It doesn't always get clearly identified:-
"A constituency wants unrestricted PvP play. They also want more players to join in. But to get those players to join in they would have to accept more restrictions on PvP, which they don't want."

We keep circling because there's nowhere to land.

I just wish all those open heroes who log off the game the moment the bandwith meter moves upwards would stay in PG or solo from the start.
That is a ridiculous behaviour, "boo hoo I play in open until I see someone else"

Crumbs, do people do that? You're right, it's ridiculous.

I'll say that there's a similar behaviour which is rational though: flying in Open and hitting the menu log when interdicted. I don't do that myself, but for someone who wants the social opportunities of Open but not combat, it's a solution. Selfish, maybe, but rational.

 

[physical0]

Can you expand further on this?

What EDR does is make bounty hunting viable, otherwise you are hunting for a needle in a haystack.

If you're popping traders in a system, doesn't it make more sense that whilst you're in the jurisdiction where this is occuring you'll be tracked by security forces? Like a ambulance chasing lawyer, wouldn't bounty hunters tune into this to enable them to find marks?

Assume that the system state (e.g. gov type and security) has an effect on how "visible" they are.

Assume there is an escape mechanism and even pirate specific modules that can scramble your ID, therefore making you harder to track.

Live by the sword, die by the sword no?

Using 3rd party tools to track specific users without their consent is kinda targeted harassment... posting the output of your 3rd party app on the forums would lead to moderator action. It violates community guidelines.

There needs to be better in-game tools to notify you when bounties are nearby. And it should report both player and npc bounties..
In an earlier post I had suggested that when a criminal gets targeted in system, it is announced on the comm that a danger had arrived and any brave soul in system could track em and bring em to justice.
The key differences are In game and immediate. You would already see them on the contact pane, they just do the favor of mentioning the bounty.

I get that finding bounties can be tough. This is part of the grand scheme with c&p rewrite. Pushing criminals to the fringes and the pvers to the
Core, you will be more likely to find a like minded soul to play with.
In addition to the very fun and poorly paying human pilot, i would hope there are more challenging ai pilots as you venture out of your comfort zone,

 

[Bigmaec]

Yup, that's the dilemma I've previously referred to. It doesn't always get clearly identified:-
"A constituency wants unrestricted PvP play. They also want more players to join in. But to get those players to join in they would have to accept more restrictions on PvP, which they don't want."

We keep circling because there's nowhere to land.


Crumbs, do people do that? You're right, it's ridiculous.

I'll say that there's a similar behaviour which is rational though: flying in Open and hitting the menu log when interdicted. I don't do that myself, but for someone who wants the social opportunities of Open but not combat, it's a solution. Selfish, maybe, but rational.

It's both happening. People log off when bandwith spikes, when they see a FdL in supercruise, when they get interdicted.

The last one I can understand, but naturally I don't like it. Most of the appeal of open to me is to overcome the obstacles, especially those provided by gankers. Do I want that everytime? Nope I chose solo when I don't. But if I go to open, I stick to it until I reach my goal.

I had that more then enough times that I fly in open in a clean FdL to fight gankers and people drop out of the instance with me not even circling to interdict, often o7'ing. It's just weird why those people chose open at all then.

 

[Robert Maynard]

It's just weird why those people chose open at all then.

Both players are playing within the rules - and what is seen as perfectly OK by one may not be desired by the other.

 

[Bigmaec]

Both players are playing within the rules - and what is seen as perfectly OK by one may not be desired by the other.

Players ganking noobs in Deciat are playing completely by the rules, and yet I don't like it either

Your complete inability to show any understanding of any other position then your own is as bad as any open-only over everything proponent.

 

[MishaTX]

Both players are playing within the rules - and what is seen as perfectly OK by one may not be desired by the other.

Nobody's saying that they're wrong or being against the rules, because clearly they're not, but I, too, find it a bit strange why people would even want to go into Open if they're just going to log the moment they see any sort of threat pop up.

I mean, why not just stick with PG/Solo, then? I do so myself when I just want to get a tedious job out of the way, such as slapping a special on an engi'ed component and I can't really be bothered. Nothing wrong with that, as far as I'm concerned.

But why jump into the shark tank only to log if you see something that might be an actual shark? That's what I don't get.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Players ganking noobs in Deciat are playing completely by the rules, and yet I don't like it either

Indeed.

Your complete inability to show any understanding of any other position then your own is as bad as any open-only over everything proponent.

I understand the positions put forward by others well enough - however those positions don't over-ride other differing opinions.

"It's permitted by the game" is often used by those who defend their preferential targeting of other players who have little or no chance of escape / survival - yet those same players complain when they are blocked or the intended target chooses to leave the game, denying them a "ship go boom".

 

[Bigmaec]

Indeed.

I understand the positions put forward by others well enough - however those positions don't over-ride other differing opinions.

"It's permitted by the game" is often used by those who defend their preferential targeting of other players who have little or no chance of escape / survival - yet those same players complain when they are blocked or the intended target chooses to leave the game, denying them a "ship go boom".

Every once in a while I forget why I should simply not reply to you.
Thanks for reminding me and have a nice day.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Nobody's saying that they're wrong or being against the rules, because clearly they're not, but I, too, find it a bit strange why people would even want to go into Open if they're just going to log the moment they see any sort of threat pop up.

I mean, why not just stick with PG/Solo, then? I do so myself when I just want to get a tedious job out of the way, such as slapping a special on an engi'ed component and I can't really be bothered. Nothing wrong with that, as far as I'm concerned.

But why jump into the shark tank only to log if you see something that might be an actual shark? That's what I don't get.

Open is the only game mode with more than one player in it that is advertised in the launcher (a player needs to find out about each Private Group that they may wish to join outside the game and then apply to join) - it's also the only game mode with an unlimited population.

 

[AntoineDoinel]

Back to the original question, I just tried asking my dog:

"how could you be encouraged to put yourself into learning linear algebra, even if you don't have to?"

He lifted an ear, said "woof", and finally farted.

Damn lazy scrounger if you ask me, but what can I do?