Odyssey Going Forwards

[[VR] James Constantine]

Lord Braben Himself, from the very early days of the game, paraphrased: "One thing we built into the structure of the game is ship interiors, and being able to walk around them and on planets and in stations on foot. We've designed all the ships with interiors in mind, how the cargo is loaded and unloaded, "

Not sure that's true anymore, at least for some ship models that were added subsequently. One thing I've noticed, for example, is that the original ships, such as the Sidewinder, Cobra and Python all would have extended ramps with steps while landed. Later ships increasingly had no such detail included. Also some ship internals, such as fighter bays, did not exist when those original designs were created - there's no reason to assume that they have been designed to 'fit in' as well.

I'm sure an effort to design the ships to allow for interiors was originally the case, but I suspect that this wasn't consistently maintained. Chances are they'd probably have to go back to the drawing board at this stage.

 

[Sighman]

Ship interiors are a big enough feature for a completely separate DLC. (I'd like to see content based on opening up larger areas of the orbiting stations, too, like missions to hunt down a fugitive, fight a conflict zone in corridors & rooms, repel invaders in a war, that kind of thing.)

 

[rootsrat]

So how will interiors help the BGS, Powerplay?

How will interiors be integrated into fights?

Boarding sounds great, but then you'll have to deal with logging- how will boarders react to a vanishing ship?

Will broken canopies allow instagibbed pilots? What about hull breaching munitions?

Who really wants to carry cargo in and out of a ship?

Fixing things like breaches and repelling boarders sounds excellent, but if the general game loop of point to point flight cuts out mixing with other ships (and that station drop zones are so small) where will boarding take place?

If we can board, what happens to a ships ownership?

Interiors are a great idea, but they have substantial hooks into other areas of the game that need sorting first.

It's a completely new DLC - pretty much a whole new game, just like Odyssey. That's why there was never a chance for it being part of Odyssey in the first place. But even if we get them I doubt the gameplay will be as complex as you describe above. FDEV always puts in basics first and then expands upon it - for some parts at least (looking at you, smuggling!).

I personally would love ship interiors to be honest. For me it would add more personality to the ships and make them feel more like our "home in space". It would also add the continuity of gameplay. Currently there is the "this is only a game" fade to black. I definitely prefer immersion over shortcuts.

YMMV of course as people draw immersion lines in different places.

 

[Riverside]

Interiors are a great idea, but they have substantial hooks into other areas of the game that need sorting first.

Almost every issue only really applies to PvP and hostile boarding of other players ships. Starting with static abandoned wrecks would allow FDev to gauge player interest (I'm thinking similar scenarios to settlement & POI missions but in space as well).

Boarded/raided NPC ships won't CLog & shouldn't present significantly more issues and players already have the option to prevent team boarding so not being able to raid other player ships could be handled in a similar way (although faked persistence would be nice).

 

[M4RTH4]

Boarded/raided NPC ships won't CLog & shouldn't present significantly more issues and players already have the option to prevent team boarding so not being able to raid other player ships could be handled in a similar way (although faked persistence would be nice).

Stealing an NPC ship and selling it for scrap might be neat, too, or you could just set it to self destruct once you dump out all its cargo.
Doing the same with a player ship, you'd only be limited to the self destruct option, Owner gets the rebuy and keeps the ship.

 

[thistle]

Odyssey is the perfect time for Ship Interiors, and they already made like 96% of the assets for them, too.

96%, really? I mean perhaps that might make some sense if you only want the cockpits that are currently modelled and visible now, even then 96% is probably too high, but okay.

For the rest of the ship interiors? I mean we know what SC artists and devs do, it isn't spending time to create a system to recreate multiple star systems with orbital mechanics etc, they spend their time on ship interiors and art assets. For fdev to create the interiors in a similar fashion would take.... a long time. The ships are huge.

A separate dlc, imo.

Also, EDO is not the perfect time for interiors, for fdev. It might be for us, in the same way that today is the perfect day for me to become a millionaire, but what I want bears no relation to what is realistically possible. EDO was a logical stepping stone - the player 'entity' walking in stations, on ground etc, it was just an extension of what was there. But having multiple players be able to walk in each others ships, EVA, boarding etc, rather than the multicrew extension we have, that is a rewrite of how the game works. I'm sure it's possible but it's a lot more complicated I suspect than adding walking in stations or on planets.

 

[Riverside]

Doing the same with a player ship, you'd only be limited to the self destruct option, Owner gets the rebuy and keeps the ship.

An idea I read years ago about PvP boarding that I liked was that the stolen ship persisted until the 'new owner' left the ship (or it was destroyed) whereupon it would disappear. As you say the original owner would eat the rebuy & get a replacement as per the rebuy rules.

Potentially could allow for test drives (I could lend a whole ship to another player instead of just taking them on as crew), there is quite a bit of potential there I think.

 

[M4RTH4]

96%, really? I mean perhaps that might make some sense if you only want the cockpits that are currently modelled and visible now, even then 96% is probably too high, but okay.

Beds, shelves, lockers, doors, stairs, windows, halways, tables, benches, chairs, pipes, consoles, entire rooms, et cetra et cetra and on and on and on.
They made a lot of new assets for Oddysey, and you can view them at various settlements where you can get out and walk on foot. They could just as easily use them for ship interiors.

As you say the original owner would eat the rebuy & get a replacement as per the rebuy rules.

I feel that would remain the best way for a player to keep their super engineered ship that they might have put their blood, sweat, heart, soul, and tears into. Losing something like that is nigh unacceptable.

 

[[VR] James Constantine]

I personally would love ship interiors to be honest. For me it would add more personality to the ships and make them feel more like our "home in space". It would also add the continuity of gameplay. Currently there is the "this is only a game" fade to black. I definitely prefer immersion over shortcuts.

I feel how on-foot was developed in Odyssey was badly thought out. It instantly disenfranchised those commanders who spent most of their time exploring outside the bubble, leaving them with an afterthought of a xenobiology mini-game, and no Artemis suit in a 2,000 light-year radius. Introducing ship interiors as part of the expansion would have likely been far more successful, and certainly in keeping with the continuity of game play as you suggest.

Still, bolting on a FPS was probably the least resource intensive option, which I expect is the reason we got that.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Almost every issue only really applies to PvP and hostile boarding of other players ships. Starting with static abandoned wrecks would allow FDev to gauge player interest (I'm thinking similar scenarios to settlement & POI missions but in space as well).

Boarded/raided NPC ships won't CLog & shouldn't present significantly more issues and players already have the option to prevent team boarding so not being able to raid other player ships could be handled in a similar way (although faked persistence would be nice).

Sadly there are people who even dislike that in solo or consequences / events that get in the way of the min/max.

 

[Riverside]

Sadly there are people who even dislike that in solo or consequences / events that get in the way of the min/max.

Sure. How does that relate to the proposal in your view?

 

[Rubbernuke]

Sure. How does that relate to the proposal in your view?

I see it as an extension of the irritation people have about SC interdiction by NPCs, its finding a balance of it happening and the ability to fight it. I can imagine ways around that (for example using drones deployed to patrol around your ship when it lands), but a lot of people will whine about 'my ship got nicked / ransacked'.

Don't get me wrong, I want it too I'm just thinking that without firming up what we have now its yet another wobbly scaffold on a foundation of scaffolding.

 

[Drelthar]

The interiors I want aren't my own ships, but megaships, capital ships, guardian beacons, thargoid motherships, and (less importantly but still cool) NPC "normal" ships.

I couldn't care less about wandering about inside my own tin can, I can already do everything I could possibly want to with it from the cockpit.

I would like to be able to actually get up from the seat, and go to the door (and back) instead of the pretty horrible blue circle bumph they left in from when they were concepting the expansion.

 

[Riverside]

I see it as an extension of the irritation people have about SC interdiction by NPCs, its finding a balance of it happening and the ability to fight it. I can imagine ways around that (for example using drones deployed to patrol around your ship when it lands), but a lot of people will whine about 'my ship got nicked / ransacked'.

Don't get me wrong, I want it too I'm just thinking that without firming up what we have now its yet another wobbly scaffold on a foundation of scaffolding.

Ok I don't think worrying about whether people will 'whine' is productive so I'll not address that concern directly.

I don't really see situations where the solo player being attacked & boarded by NPCs need to be treated any differently from PvP boarding - disabling team boarding is already an option in Odyssey, I think having that option also disable any other player or NPC from boarding (ie lock the door) would work. We also have the report crimes function that fulfils a similar role (albeit nothing to do with ship boarding) in that it allows the player to tailor their experience with both benefits and downsides.

I fly with report crimes off, I don't CLog, I play in Open. I use teams/crew from time to time so I accept I am making a value judgement over whether I can trust those players I interact with, and either accept I may be double-crossed or be prepared to deal with the consequences as they emerge. Overwhelmingly I find other players can be trusted to behave in a predictable way and I don't see that situation changing with boarding (hostile or not).

 

[UberMeg]

The ship interior game play loop has amazing potential. I'll "try" and keep this concise.

1. Delivery missions: Instead of the cargo miraculously appearing in your ship, you have to disembark and carry it on yourself and place it on the cargo rack.
2. Multi-crew (combat): In SC you can crew someone else's ship and climb in to the turreted weapons like in virtually any Sci-Fi movie. Flippin awesome.
3. Multi-crew (mining): Again in SC you can be part of a crew that has their own duties onboard the ship. Translated to ED, someone could ping the asteroids for core materials, someone would steer and laser mine, someone would work the refinery.
4. Onboard repairs: Taken damage to your shield generator or SRV? Well get out of your seat and go fix it!
5. Get out of your seat during super cruise: Repair some modules, repair your SRV, Synthesise some fuel.
6. When I'm exploring I like to land on a planet before logging off. It's my immersion thing. Imagine if your character actually got tired and hungry and required food and sleep. to remain at full potential. I would love to settle down on a planet and head to my bunk prior to logging off for the immersion factor alone.

Those are just a few ideas but you get the gist (or is it jist?).

 

[Rubbernuke]

Ok I don't think worrying about whether people will 'whine' is productive so I'll not address that concern directly.

I don't really see situations where the solo player being attacked & boarded by NPCs need to be treated any differently from PvP boarding - disabling team boarding is already an option in Odyssey, I think having that option also disable any other player or NPC from boarding (ie lock the door) would work. We also have the report crimes function that fulfils a similar role (albeit nothing to do with ship boarding) in that it allows the player to tailor their experience with both benefits and downsides.

I fly with report crimes off, I don't CLog, I play in Open. I use teams/crew from time to time so I accept I am making a value judgement over whether I can trust those players I interact with, and either accept I may be double-crossed or be prepared to deal with the consequences as they emerge. Overwhelmingly I find other players can be trusted to behave in a predictable way and I don't see that situation changing with boarding (hostile or not).

And to me thats unacceptable, because you are then switching off danger and yet another a la carte ruleset. If its optional, whats the point of it?

The other is with boarding, what will they be looting anyway? Cargo is taken via limpet, so will there be smaller parcels to find and steal? Can data (such as exploration data) be hacked? Why bother boarding at all if you have limpets that do the hard work anyway?

Its just adding inconsistencies over inconsistencies, just as Odyssey is doing to the main game (and the amount of whining about notoriety as an example).

 

[Rubbernuke]

The ship interior game play loop has amazing potential. I'll "try" and keep this concise.

1. Delivery missions: Instead of the cargo miraculously appearing in your ship, you have to disembark and carry it on yourself and place it on the cargo rack.
2. Multi-crew (combat): In SC you can crew someone else's ship and climb in to the turreted weapons like in virtually any Sci-Fi movie. Flippin awesome.
3. Multi-crew (mining): Again in SC you can be part of a crew that has their own duties onboard the ship. Translated to ED, someone could ping the asteroids for core materials, someone would steer and laser mine, someone would work the refinery.
4. Onboard repairs: Taken damage to your shield generator or SRV? Well get out of your seat and go fix it!
5. Get out of your seat during super cruise: Repair some modules, repair your SRV, Synthesise some fuel.
6. When I'm exploring I like to land on a planet before logging off. It's my immersion thing. Imagine if your character actually got tired and hungry and required food and sleep. to remain at full potential. I would love to settle down on a planet and head to my bunk prior to logging off for the immersion factor alone.

Those are just a few ideas but you get the gist (or is it jist?).

The problem is, a lot of interior gameplay is really inferior versions of what happens now.

Why bother to synth when you do it via a menu? Or repairs when you have an AMFU?

You can be a gunner now, why does sitting in a turret make any more difference?

Its a bit like multicrew- I really, really want a diverse set of roles but since ED was designed for a single player sat in one chair to do it all, you are going backwards in capability if one person can do it all the best way. You could degrade that (and make 'in person' faster) but so far FD have not sorted that out (and probably won't).

 

[M4RTH4]

I see it as an extension of the irritation people have about SC interdiction by NPCs, its finding a balance of it happening and the ability to fight it. I can imagine ways around that (for example using drones deployed to patrol around your ship when it lands), but a lot of people will whine about 'my ship got nicked / ransacked'.

Don't get me wrong, I want it too I'm just thinking that without firming up what we have now its yet another wobbly scaffold on a foundation of scaffolding.

Ho'd up: Point Defense.

Point Defense is already in the game, shoots down enemy limpets, missiles, and mines.
There's an AI Turret that shoots humans at some Odyssey Settlements.

As for setting up said PD turrets correctly to shoot at pie-rats and not at non-hostiles, that might take a bit of extra figuring out. But the problem has a clear goal.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Ho'd up: Point Defense

I'd love a customisable interior that had slots for things- so you'd have a slot for an interior camera / sentry gun etc at the expense of power (and that it could be hacked against you).

Or that you go full Rocinate and small turreted weapons could be used to ward of attackers on foot.

 

[Riverside]

And to me thats unacceptable, because you are then switching off danger and yet another a la carte ruleset. If its optional, whats the point of it?

Is this an example of the whining you referred to earlier?

You don't have the choice to board the ship of a player who is in solo, a different group from you or has blocked you or plays on a different platform, I don't really see much difference. You would be able to board my ship just as you could currently shoot at it, in the event that we met in-game & I accept that risk, adding the option of hostile boarding doesn't change that status quo, it only adds an extra option.

As far as I can see any stuffz on my ship is secondary to the ship itself. You could probably disable things & steal power converters and bits of wire by cutting open panels, and I could probably repair things in a similar way to how it is done in settlements.