Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[Viajero]

This is excellent stuff.

Its like i said in a Discord conversation about this a couple of days ago, what CIG are doing is not meshing multiple servers running multiple instances but meshing multiple servers in a single instance.

In the former all you're doing is keeping live persistence across multiple servers, but you still have to load between instances, so if my friend is on a different server i have to load in to his instance or he to mine.

SC right now you have 50 people per server, lets say Stanton has 200 people in it, there are around 50 at MicroTech, 50 at Hurston, 50 at Crusader and 50 at ArcCorp.
In this case each planet would run its own server.
Now here is the fun part, lets say those 200 people all wanted to pile in to an 890 Jump, what would happen then is the 890 Jump gets split in to 4 servers, for arguments sake lets say 4 quarters, lets say the main lobby of the 890 is one server, there 40 people in it, lets say 30 people come out of their bedrooms, dining areas ecte... and move to the lobby, this is the point where now with 70 people on that server it will start to fall down.

This is how CIG would get thousands of people in to a single instance and no loading between servers, but it is not fool proof because you can't infinitely tighten down the amount of servers running a space, as he said you can't have 4 servers dividing up a single room, if you wanted to break it cram 200 people into your hab room.

And no, that ^^^^ as far as i'm aware has never been done before. And i would imagine extremely complex.

You dont even make any sense mate. In your 890j example, each quarter server is already a separate instance. And you would still need to load between each of them if you wanted to move around.

 

[Intrepid3D]

So it's all different 890 Jumps but in the same instance? Is like Mole selects the Easy listening muzak Radio staion, I opt for hard rock, and Agony Auntie wants Electropop and now the server meshes all three broadcasts into one and transmits it loud and proud to everyone.

How many radios do you have? If Mole is easy listening in the kitchen while whipping up something delicious, you're listening to hard rock in the VIP sweet then what you hear is hard rock, if you go to the kitchen what you hear is easy listening, if Agony_Aunt is broadcasting electropop ship wide that's what everyone hears.

Its all the same 890 in the same instance, the server is not the instance, the Instance is the servers. think of it like a jigsaw puzzle, many different pieces to make up the picture. the pieces are the servers, the picture is the Instance.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

How many radios do you have? If Mole is easy listening in the kitchen while whipping up something delicious, you're listening to hard rock in the VIP sweet then what you hear is hard rock, if you go to the kitchen what you hear is easy listening, if Agony_Aunt is broadcasting electropop ship wide that's what everyone hears.

Its all the same 890 in the same instance, the server are not the instance, the Instance is the servers. think of it like a jigsaw puzzle, many different pieces to make up the picture. the pieces are the servers, the picture is the Instance.

Why would I hear 3 different radios on the ship? Why would any of these strangers be there? Is this some kind of public transport system? I don't get it.

 

[Intrepid3D]

Why would I hear 3 different radios on the ship? Why would any of these strangers be there? Is this some kind of public transport system? I don't get it.

Because in your imaginary 890 you put them there? You used the example.

In reality it doesn't have any radios, so you wouldn't.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Because in your imaginary 890 you put them there?

In reality it doesn't have any radios, so you wouldn't.

I put them there? Where did the ones go that Agony put somewhere? It can't be just one 890 Jump when several ppl play with one. It's one for each player in their world space. Which is an instance, I believe.

 

[Far Beyond Driven]

• or you do it like fdev and loot materials to build what you want ... every drop becomes meaningful* (as you can use them for engineering)but you already said those mechanics drove you away from ED

Cut to Cmdrs menu logging and trading whatever they find for what they need.

 

[VR Golgot]

This is how CIG would get thousands of people in to a single instance and no loading between servers, but it is not fool proof because you can't infinitely tighten down the amount of servers running a space, as he said you can't have 4 servers dividing up a single room, if you wanted to break it cram 200 people into your hab room.

And no, that ^^^^ as far as i'm aware has never been done before. And i would imagine extremely complex.

Well nothing about the above scenario entails 'no loading between servers'. If anything it begs a lot of questions about exactly that. Players and information would have to be passed rapidly between many servers, often to the 'unpredictable' rhythm of player behavior and proximity. IE as with some of the hypotheticals the video cites:

• Player 101 enters a location, pushing that server over its 100 player cap, forcing all local players to be handled by 2 servers. (Player handovers between servers)
• Player X is in one room, but can see Player Y 100 metres away from the balcony. (Shared live data between servers)
• Player X shoots at Player Y, but due to bullet drop kills a space whale instead, which falls onto an impromptu party on the poop deck of an 890J, spilling many drinks.... (Multi-server data chaos )

Doing any of those things without notable lag would be.... Yes, let's say, in 'never been done before' territory

There are still various question marks the size of the Eiffel Tower hanging over how they could fling so much data between so many servers in an enormous 'twitch' gameplay environment (while retaining the correct server authority / preparing servers in advance for handovers etc).

What the vid essentially does is talk about a lot of problems, and how great it would be if they were all solved. And then bizarrely assumes that they all will be. But in no way touches on how that might come about

 

[Agony_Aunt]

So this one ship is like a gateway to other places?

Where we are going we don't need brains to think.

 

[Theodrid]

Hmm, C.I.G and Backend processes.....

Seems from this layman's point of view there's been far too much stuff coming out the back end at Roberts Plaza already, last thing we need is more 'backend processes'.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Hold on, i'm confused somewhat, but i think i also get what Intrepid is saying. (Or maybe i don't).

Like, if i'm in a common area, and i put down a cup, then that cup will magically appear for others in the same area but in a different instance? Which makes sense if you have instances and full persistence, but doesn't make sense from the point of view of things magically appearing.

Regarding ships, i'm not sure they would persist between instances if we are talking player owned ships, those should be instance locked anyway. NPC ships also have to be instance based... it would be crazy to have them cross instance (not to mention the server overhead). Imagine just flying past an NPC ship and it going boom for no apparent reason just because someone in another instance had blown it up.

 

[Intrepid3D]

I put them there? Where did the ones go that Agony put somewhere? It can't be just one 890 Jump when several ppl play with one. It's one for each player in their world space. Which is an instance, I believe.

They are all playing with the same 890, there is only one 890 and only one Instance.

That's the whole point.

 

[Intrepid3D]

Hold on, i'm confused somewhat, but i think i also get what Intrepid is saying. (Or maybe i don't).

Like, if i'm in a common area, and i put down a cup, then that cup will magically appear for others in the same area but in a different instance? Which makes sense if you have instances and full persistence, but doesn't make sense from the point of view of things magically appearing.

Regarding ships, i'm not sure they would persist between instances if we are talking player owned ships, those should be instance locked anyway. NPC ships also have to be instance based... it would be crazy to have them cross instance (not to mention the server overhead). Imagine just flying past an NPC ship and it going boom for no apparent reason just because someone in another instance had blown it up.

No, you will see the cup because you are in the same instance.

 

[Viajero]

They are all playing with the same 890, there is only one 890 and only one Instance.

That's the whole point.

But you said there are 4 instances in your example.

 

[Intrepid3D]

But you said there are 4 instances in your example.

Can you quote me where is said that?

 

[VR Golgot]

Oh god. The thread is just going to be a forest of littered cups...

 

[Intrepid3D]

I have just skimmed over what i said, at no point did i say "there are 4 instances" what i said was:

"Now here is the fun part, lets say those 200 people all wanted to pile in to an 890 Jump, what would happen then is the 890 Jump gets split in to 4 servers, for arguments sake lets say 4 quarters"

This is excellent stuff.

Its like i said in a Discord conversation about this a couple of days ago, what CIG are doing is not meshing multiple servers running multiple instances but meshing multiple servers in a single instance.

In the former all you're doing is keeping live persistence across multiple servers, but you still have to load between instances, so if my friend is on a different server i have to load in to his instance or he to mine.

SC right now you have 50 people per server, lets say Stanton has 200 people in it, there are around 50 at MicroTech, 50 at Hurston, 50 at Crusader and 50 at ArcCorp.
In this case each planet would run its own server.
Now here is the fun part, lets say those 200 people all wanted to pile in to an 890 Jump, what would happen then is the 890 Jump gets split in to 4 servers, for arguments sake lets say 4 quarters, lets say the main lobby of the 890 is one server, there 40 people in it, lets say 30 people come out of their bedrooms, dining areas ecte... and move to the lobby, this is the point where now with 70 people on that server it will start to fall down.

This is how CIG would get thousands of people in to a single instance and no loading between servers, but it is not fool proof because you can't infinitely tighten down the amount of servers running a space, as he said you can't have 4 servers dividing up a single room, if you wanted to break it cram 200 people into your hab room.

And no, that ^^^^ as far as i'm aware has never been done before. And i would imagine extremely complex.

 

[cigwatch]

In dream.txt there are no instances, there is one reality, common state, shared across a dynamically changing network of servers.

At the moment that network can consist only of a single server. N-1 to go.

 

[Viajero]

I have just skimmed over what i said, at no point did i say "there are 4 instances" what i said was:

"Now here is the fun part, lets say those 200 people all wanted to pile in to an 890 Jump, what would happen then is the 890 Jump gets split in to 4 servers, for arguments sake lets say 4 quarters"

How do you think the information about players, or any other entity, moving between each quarter is handled?

 

[Intrepid3D]

How do you think the information about players or any other entity moving between each quarter is handled?

You tell me.

 

[Viajero]

You tell me.

lol, no, it was you who came of with the example. You tell us!