Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

I think it was you who described that in your example:

No, that is an example of moving from one server to another in the same one instance, you are already in the same instance.

If we are in different instances you would have to come out of your instance and load in to mine.
 
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Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
No, that is an example of moving from one server to another in the same one instance, you are already in the same instance.

If we are in different instances you would have to come out of you instance and load in to mine.
I believe you are thinking purely in terms of ship layout or a map.

An instance is much more than just the layout of the ship. You have other player entities and positions, their load outs, their attitude and speed, same for NPCs, any projectiles or laser in the air, grenades, loot items, any other assets such as a parked ship (if the other server handles a hangar), any ship systems state (engines, shield core, weapons cache, turrets...) and use thereof made by other players in that particular quarter etc etc etc etc.

In your example, if you are in a different quarter of the ship then that means that all that information listed above (other than the barebones map, and possibly things like global chat etc) in the other quarter is handled by a different server than yours and you can not see it or interact with it in any way. You can not be "in the same instance" if your server doesn´t have all that information about the other quarter. Now, when you move from one quarter to the other then your client needs to deprecate all that information pertaining to your quarter and load all the new one. This is in essence the same principle of loading a new instance.
 
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The game is a much more pleasant experience when you throw this at it:

11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-11700F
32GB DDR4 (3200 MHz)
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 8GB GDDR6
1TB HDD (7200 rpm) & 512GB SSD

00050.jpg00051.jpg

Offloaded biggest delivery of QT for 600k profit.
 
Its a good reason to not trust anything anyone says and only trust what you see for yourself.

But the same applies to those SC YouTubers who make SC look better than it is. As is often the case, between extremes is usually the truth to be found.

Now some ex-ED players will see how SC for themselves and make their own value judgements.

Its going to be interesting to see how things unfold over the coming months.

Wait, i thought all the SC content creators were mad at SC right now. Isn't it Elite Dangerous YouTubers who are making SC look better than it is now?
 
I thought YouTubers were just money-chasing shills who sell themselves like prositutes for glass bowls? At least thats what i got from that other car-crash thread on DD :unsure:

Of course, caveat, this is self-reported information and not everyone uses LinkedIn or keeps it up to date, but i think it can be useful as a general overview, in the same way Steam stats can be used to see trends even if not absoloute numbers.
Looks to me CIG has less than 100 proper developers. Elite wins, SC preorder cancelled!

Yes, you can do it manually, tho i don't recomend it its very difficult, or automatic. In the video it was automatic.
Only newbs use DC: but if it's built-in does that mean everyone is a newb? I see a ganker extensional crisis incoming ;)


re: server meshing, how about this analogy: players are marbles (figuratively i mean) and in Elite each instance is a jar, and each server may have multiple jars (have FDev ever said how may instances per server? or is one server one instance?). You put marbles into the jar, and once the jar is full you spin up another jar. It doesnt matter if the jars are all in Sol payers just go into a jar, and move between jars is swapping instances (if capacity, otherwise you dont instance with wing mate and end up in your own jar). You swap jars when you jump to another star, or transition to a planet.

In SC meshing theres one jar per instance (ie: US, EU, AUS) and when the jar is full of marbles you spin up another jar, however the jar is just added to the existing jar, so you now have a bigger jar for more marbles. Load could be handled by pushing or splitting jars by proximity - so you may have a 6xjar at Orison with 280 marbles, but a 1xjar at Everus if just 4 marbles. If 50 marbles jump into a ship and fly to Everus, you spin up a ship jar decrease the Orison jar (and when they arrive) add the ship jar to the Everus jar.

Is that about right? Trying to interpret it all.
 
I believe you are thinking purely in terms of ship layout or a map.

An instance is much more than just the layout of the ship. You have other player entities and positions, their load outs, their attitude and speed, same for NPCs, any projectiles or laser in the air, grenades, loot items, any other assets such as a parked ship (if the other server handles a hangar), any ship systems state (engines, shield core, weapons cache, turrets...) and use thereof made by other players in that particular quarter etc etc etc etc.

In your example, if you are in a different quarter of the ship then that means that all that information listed above (other than the barebones map, and possibly things like global chat etc) in the other quarter is handled by a different server than yours and you can not see it or interact with it in any way. You can not be "in the same instance" if your server doesn´t have all that information about the other quarter. Now, when you move from one quarter to the other then your client needs to deprecate all that information pertaining to your quarter and load all the new one. This is in essence the same principle of loading a new instance.

It does not need to know everything, all it need to know is what you the client can see, which is a small fraction of the information running on the server.

What you're describing is separate instances, the whole point of running a single instance across multiple servers is so that you can transition between servers seamlessly.
 
I thought YouTubers were just money-chasing shills who sell themselves like prositutes for glass bowls? At least thats what i got from that other car-crash thread on DD :unsure:


Looks to me CIG has less than 100 proper developers. Elite wins, SC preorder cancelled!


Only newbs use DC: but if it's built-in does that mean everyone is a newb? I see a ganker extensional crisis incoming ;)


re: server meshing, how about this analogy: players are marbles (figuratively i mean) and in Elite each instance is a jar, and each server may have multiple jars (have FDev ever said how may instances per server? or is one server one instance?). You put marbles into the jar, and once the jar is full you spin up another jar. It doesnt matter if the jars are all in Sol payers just go into a jar, and move between jars is swapping instances (if capacity, otherwise you dont instance with wing mate and end up in your own jar). You swap jars when you jump to another star, or transition to a planet.

In SC meshing theres one jar per instance (ie: US, EU, AUS) and when the jar is full of marbles you spin up another jar, however the jar is just added to the existing jar, so you now have a bigger jar for more marbles. Load could be handled by pushing or splitting jars by proximity - so you may have a 6xjar at Orison with 280 marbles, but a 1xjar at Everus if just 4 marbles. If 50 marbles jump into a ship and fly to Everus, you spin up a ship jar decrease the Orison jar (and when they arrive) add the ship jar to the Everus jar.

Is that about right? Trying to interpret it all.

This person gets it.
 
Dual Universe have done the continuous shard thing, they resize the servers as required, as more players gather closer together the size of the area serviced by a server becomes smaller, but it's all one instance and players can see others and their ships/structures far away if they are large enough.

I think the level of detail in my probably utterly inaccurate explanation above is as much clue as CIG have about how to actually do it for themselves :D
 
Dual Universe have done the continuous shard thing, they resize the servers as required, as more players gather closer together the size of the area serviced by a server becomes smaller, but it's all one instance and players can see others and their ships/structures far away if they are large enough.

I think the level of detail in my probably utterly inaccurate explanation above is as much clue as CIG have about how to actually do it for themselves :D

No, that can't be. It is impossible. Or so I've heard.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
It does not need to know everything, all it need to know is what you the client can see, which is a small fraction of the information running on the server.

What you're describing is separate instances, the whole point of running a single instance across multiple servers is so that you can transition between servers seamlessly.
That doesn’t make much sense. If your server in your quarter of the ship has zero information about me in a different quarter of the same ship then we can not be in a “single instance” at all. Moving from one quarter to another requires deprecating data and loading a complete new set, I.e a change of server and instance. Put in another way, if you think that completely separate data and information in different quarters of the ship being handled by different servers is a “single instance” then me flying over Jupiter rings in super cruise while you do a settlement mission on Europa in Elite is also a “single instance”. The only difference with your ship quarters is the scale of the map.
 
Depends on how large and complex the area is, if its Bajini Point? no, absolutely not.

Ok, so back to what I was asking. If you're not in the same instance, at a star port, will a cup magically appear when someone puts one down in another instance?

I mean, in how you imagine it will work based on your statements.
 
That doesn’t make much sense. If your server in your quarter of the ship has zero information about me in a different quarter of the same ship then we can not be in a “single instance” at all. Moving from one quarter to another requires deprecating data and loading a complete new set, I.e a change of server and instance. Put in another way, if you think that completely separate data and information in different quarters of the ship being handled by different servers is a “single instance” then me flying over Jupiter rings in super cruise while you do a settlement mission on Europa in Elite is also a “single instance”. The only difference with your ship quarters is the scale of the map.

The server in my quarter knows everything i need to know about you, no more, no less, it requests that information based on what i do.

That in it self is not even remotely unusual, lots of games already do this, its not the thing to get hung up on.

In any kind of server latices they have to communicate with each other or it wouldn't work at all.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
The server in my quarter knows everything i need to know about you, no more, no less, it requests that information based on what i do.

That in it self is not even remotely unusual, lots of games already do this, its not the thing to get hung up on.

In any kind of server latices they have to communicate with each other or it wouldn't work at all.
In my Elite example all I would need to know about you is your location, shields and life/hull points maybe. It works. So in that example Elite would also be a single instance according to your view.

But that is by the by. What if the total amount of information everyone in your quarter “needs to know“ about the other servers at a given time exceeds the data cap your quarter server can handle? In that case additional servers would need to be created to subpartition the ship further. All of which requires deprecating data sets and loading new ones, I.e. instancing loading and unloading. And which is not instantaneous as Golgot points out above. Now imagine that server subpartition is triggered in the middle of a firefight inside the ship, firefight that now needs to be split in real time, lasers, grenades flying and players about to pull a trigger…

You, and many other backers, seem to be constantly implicitly assuming servers that are either uncapped or infinite communication speed. Or both. I presume that is the fallacy to which many fall into after hearing the word “seamless”. Although that is not your fault, but CIG’s. Even a fully dynamic server set up as Dual Universe tries to do will have caps beyond which the game will be forced to either create literal new instances of the same location or restrict player access, if too many players decide to congregate.
 
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