Even if we move in different circles and have different opinions we both play the same game and are very close in terms of what we want. Healthy debate is good for the game and if you have been in tournaments where that has been your experience I won't doubt you .. I just happen to spend a lot of time with the best players in the game and do not count myself in any way as good as them but can hold my own. And from my experience and the tournaments I've personally been involved in and helped organise on other platforms along with the countless fight nights I've done, no one is calling for a ban on TC.. they all agree it's the meta though.
Info on Thermal Conduit effect.
- Thread starter Pigletslastand
- Start date
I was talking about max range, let’s say we are both right?
Just remembered PVP League 5 where Prism used a wing strat based around SRB rail FDLs to defeat more conventional TC plasma fits: the reason they were so effective in that League setting was specifically that ships were limited to 4 shield boosters, maybe the key to altering TC plasma dominance of the meta could have more to do with shield health pools than hitting TC directly?
of course not they wanna keep their most powerful ganking weapon. i saw countless of times with my very eyes what a gankerwing of them can do against any shield tank non pvp pilot with this broken weapon as it is right now.
but agreed we are very close related to an agreement.
still consider tho that a 4 PA Fdl without any TC at all still can do 384 mj damage when built smartly. isnt this enough?
3 of them still deploy about 1000 mj damage and this is without any rams. so even 12k mj cutters can be taken down fastly. means 257 raw damage on a shield with 4 pips to sys.
I'm sorry to disagree with you here. No one is married to TC and those same pilots would absolutely anihillate a non pvp pilot with any loadout. That isn't about TC and it's not broken in the sense you are suggesting.
It is broken in the sense that the heat is being applied before the shot though, and it could do with a sliding scale. We have a common agreement there.
They wouldn't against a wing. Also I know from personal experience like I said earlier, I can escape a 1v1 situation against a plasma user in a paper thin pve build and did so just about 4 weeks ago. So yes the trading in open guide is still excellent and useful to those who want to use it.they would have reasonable chances to escape tho.
and the video of the gid gud for trading in open would also work again which it doesnt atm related to the power of TC. the creator admitted it himself.
To sum up for mr. Tebori:
- he is not using PAs neither is his group
- he is not part of the pvp community at the hub.
I agree, for the purposes of staying on track, I feel like we should focus on interactions between purpose-built PVP combat ships. Bringing up asymmetrical engagements like that won't help balance TC weapons against other competitive weapons.
The high damage output is only in the right hands => high skill = high damage, I see it remarkably fair given the state of the game.
If you are trader and see a ganker in SC your best defence is not to get interdicted. When the ganker starts lining you up drop to normal space and charge again your FSD for SC. When the ganker drops on your wake just boost and go SC - repeat. This way they will not get a chance to shoot at you. If this is what you like get a Cutter - you are unkillable in an engineered one.
mate, you might playing not for long or just wanna add some fun but all of this points can be applied for both sides time to time. One of the most wide spread "meta" FDL in organic atm is 6 booster+guardian shield booster monster. And even the last point you mentioned which "spear is abiding" was recently used by some of hub members.
This topic wasn't about 'who did worse' or 'who offended someone'. There is no reason to get this touchy on such things. Adjusting TC will grant more variety in builds and ships players can use. As mentioned many times - doubt it will "harm your maestic skill" much if it become working as it was before:
- +0.5% damage by each 1% of heat above 100%
- cap it to max 160% of heat (which makes it +30% of damage max, not like constant +60%)
- fixed heat damage (which will also reduce srb rail build effectiveness in long term)
I like the first two points, but can you explain this one a bit more? What do you mean by fixed heat damage exactly?
right now heat damage is barely noticable compare to old one - ship can be heated up to 1k-2k % of heat and still effective with somehow alive weapons. As guys mentioned above: heat damage was nerfed heavily due to other issues. This leads us that TC atm grants decent damage boost with kinda no drawbacks
I will say it directly - SPEAR has interest TC to be nerfed as only a couple of you use PAs and all of your "enemies" fly with them. But fine let's be civil and speak numbers - according to Coriolis this is the sustained dps when WEP are not empty against a 5 booster prismatic FDL with 4 pips in shields:
- meta fdl with 3 PAs with TC -> 40.4 (thermal 7, kinetic 5, 28 absolute) and two rails 17.2 (thermal 13, kinetic 5) => combined thermal 20, kinetic 10, 28 absolute, TOTAL 58 damage per second to shields;
- gimballed multies FDL (all overcharged, huge and 2 medium incendiery, one med emissive, one corrosive) => combined thermal 17, kinetic 8, TOTAL 24.4 damage per second to shields;
- mamba with long range fixed beam and gimballed frags (all overcharged, large incendiery, smalls corrosive and drag) => combined thermal 37, kinetic 7, TOTAL 43.7 damage per second to shields;
So meta FDL needed to sustain heat levels, full faOff proficiency, boost timing, pre-turns, pips management and no drifting has currently 32.7% better dps on paper. In a real fight the difference of damage output might be even less. The skill needed to fly such a mamba is just joust, click 3 times to shoot the frags, turn point and click to shoot the beam, repeat. Looking at those numbers I actually thing that TC is underpowered OR frags are overpowered XD Without it the sustained dps between the two is pretty much even. The difference with the gimballed multi-cannons looks good.
That's a load of bullcrap
It has to be fixed, not nerfed. That a clear distinction.
And not because SPEAR that or SPEAR this, but simply because it's a broken mechanic.
And, no - i'm not affiliated to SPEAR in any way
Right, so you mean fixed as in made to work properly, not a constant damage for all heat levels? Had me a bit worried there ..
In what way do you consider it to be broken as there are varying different understandings?
My understanding of it being broken is that it arms to the required heat before firing if those tests are correct and that shouldn't happen - broken
It applies 60% damage increase in a non linear fashion - might be broken / might be intended, certainly up for review.
Or do you mean that you think it just does too much damage thereby - broken in your eyes?
Just trying to get an accurate picture of where you are coming from for others (read Devs) who might sniff around this topic.
IMO the damage should scale with the thermal load of the firing ship
The 60% damage increase at low thermal load is certainly too much
Now if the max damage is toned down (capped to a lower level) or is made achievable at way higher thermals (160-200% oe more) - this would have to be re-evaluated by FD.