General / Off-Topic The Covid vaccine must be mandatory ?

[Wotthe Dickens]

Something I feel I should know more about is what are the consequences of a small exposure to covid.
Is this a method for topping up our immune systems or doesn’t it work like that?
Can a small exposure provoke an immune response? Or is it that a small exposure means simply that there’s not enough virion to take hold and our bodies don’t even notice, like a tipping point, once beyond a threshold, that’s it and we’ll get full blown covid and fate deals with it?
I’ve seen that a large exposure doesn’t bode well, compared to small, so given that here in the uk at least, the intention appears to be let it go wild, would it be more prudent to allow a chance of mild expose as opposed to waiting on any vaccine top ups?

 

[Stigbob]

Yesterday on reddit: Anti-vaxxers need to be treated sofly softly

Today: 22-year-old hostess asked group of Texans to show proof of COVID vaccine in order to dine in the restaurant, as part of NYC's executive order that went into effect this week. Law enforcement sources said that the hostess was then repeatedly punched in the face and body, and sent to the hospital.

Carmine's Hostess Attacked After Asking Tourists for Vaccination Proof to Dine Inside

A hostess at a well-known New York City restaurant was attacked just for asking to see a group’s proof of COVID vaccination, a requirement to dine inside in the city.

www.nbcnewyork.com

Hospitalizing a young lady for doing her job in the only way she can without risking her employment being terminated or her employer facing legal sanctions is tragically pretty low key.

These knuckle draggers are killing us directly and indirectly through infection and tying up medical resources.

 

[Sunyavadin]

Something I feel I should know more about is what are the consequences of a small exposure to covid.
Is this a method for topping up our immune systems or doesn’t it work like that?
Can a small exposure provoke an immune response? Or is it that a small exposure means simply that there’s not enough virion to take hold and our bodies don’t even notice, like a tipping point, once beyond a threshold, that’s it and we’ll get full blown covid and fate deals with it?
I’ve seen that a large exposure doesn’t bode well, compared to small, so given that here in the uk at least, the intention appears to be let it go wild, would it be more prudent to allow a chance of mild expose as opposed to waiting on any vaccine top ups?

Doesn't work that way, sadly. given how it's transmitted as an airborne pathogen, you get enough exposure to mount a response, it's in your bloodstream by then, you've gotten infected, and your body needs to fight it off. If it's not enough to infect you, then your body won't recognise it when you do get infected.

Initial experiments in inoculation discovered the inherent problems here, when it was discovered that yes, it was theoretically possible to give someone a scratch and put the pus from smallpox scabs into it, and they'd develop immunity to smallpox. Sometimes. But they were just as likely to develop a lethal case. Because they had no way of knowing how everyone's immune systems differ and how much of that just comes down to chance. Some fought off that initial infection at the inoculation site at the early stage and developed immunity, some didn't, it spread through their blood, and it progressed to a full infection.

The trick we discovered when we figured vaccination out was that you could find something similar enough, such as a closely related virus which doesn't cause the same harm, that the body's immune system would recognise the target virus if subsequently exposed to it following an infection with the benign one.

The entire point of a vaccination initially was delivering enough of a dose of that similar but benign virus to infect you. It's why you get the swelling and pain at vaccination sites and sometimes develop a fever for a day or two after vaccination*. Nowadays of course, this is no longer the case as we have progressed beyond using live virus vaccines to where we can manufacture a vaccine which only delivers a protein that is enough for the immune system to recognise. But we still need to deliver it in a high enough quantity (hence the usefulness of mRNA, as it delivers the blueprints rather than the finished product and tells the cells of the body how to make the protein) that the immune system is fooled into seeing an infection where there is none, and mounts an immune response where it learns to recognise the "fingerprints" of the virus.





*as an aside, this is where the whole thing of people claiming to have gotten flu from a flu vaccination come from, as you are likely to experience symptoms comparable to a mild infection with the virus it's targeting, that's the vaccine working. It's not the same experience as catching a wild strain, though. Far less rough, as the vaccine is not directly attacking your body's systems in the way the virus would, so you only experience the harmful effects of the immune reaction, which is where some of the most recognisable symptoms come from, sadly, leading to this misconception.

 

[Wotthe Dickens]

Doesn't work that way, sadly. given how it's transmitted as an airborne pathogen, you get enough exposure to mount a response, it's in your bloodstream by then, you've gotten infected, and your body needs to fight it off. If it's not enough to infect you, then your body won't recognise it when you do get infected.

Initial experiments in inoculation discovered the inherent problems here, when it was discovered that yes, it was theoretically possible to give someone a scratch and put the pus from smallpox scabs into it, and they'd develop immunity to smallpox. Sometimes. But they were just as likely to develop a lethal case. Because they had no way of knowing how everyone's immune systems differ and how much of that just comes down to chance. Some fought off that initial infection at the inoculation site at the early stage and developed immunity, some didn't, it spread through their blood, and it progressed to a full infection.

The trick we discovered when we figured vaccination out was that you could find something similar enough, such as a closely related virus which doesn't cause the same harm, that the body's immune system would recognise the target virus if subsequently exposed to it following an infection with the benign one.

The entire point of a vaccination initially was delivering enough of a dose of that similar but benign virus to infect you. It's why you get the swelling and pain at vaccination sites and sometimes develop a fever for a day or two after vaccination*. Nowadays of course, this is no longer the case as we have progressed beyond using live virus vaccines to where we can manufacture a vaccine which only delivers a protein that is enough for the immune system to recognise. But we still need to deliver it in a high enough quantity (hence the usefulness of mRNA, as it delivers the blueprints rather than the finished product and tells the cells of the body how to make the protein) that the immune system is fooled into seeing an infection where there is none, and mounts an immune response where it learns to recognise the "fingerprints" of the virus.





*as an aside, this is where the whole thing of people claiming to have gotten flu from a flu vaccination come from, as you are likely to experience symptoms comparable to a mild infection with the virus it's targeting, that's the vaccine working. It's not the same experience as catching a wild strain, though. Far less rough, as the vaccine is not directly attacking your body's systems in the way the virus would, so you only experience the harmful effects of the immune reaction, which is where some of the most recognisable symptoms come from, sadly, leading to this misconception.

Thanks, yes, I suspected so.
Cheers

 

[Stigbob]

Nice company the anti-vaxxers keep.

Taliban denies killing three female Afghan polio workers

Murders of two volunteers and a nurse come one day after relaunch of national vaccination campaign

www.theguardian.com

 

[Zieman]

Nice company the anti-vaxxers keep.

Taliban denies killing three female Afghan polio workers

Murders of two volunteers and a nurse come one day after relaunch of national vaccination campaign

www.theguardian.com

Well, they're with the winning team then. :/

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Betadine Gargles are taking over from Ivermectin. It's a disinfectant. Based on iodine. Toxic to thyroid glands. I got a litre in a jug in the closet left over from my old surgery; used it as skin prep. Nasty stinky stuff, cheap as dirt.

Antivaxers are crazy, but at least they are not drinking it. Yet.

 

[Sunyavadin]

I use it as a topical disinfectant, but it's absolutely rancid, sticking it in your mouth? Eugh, I bet even someone with a severe case of olfactory nerve damage from covid would still be able to smell the stuff.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Data from Medcram channel, courtesy Dr. Sehault:

Source: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pp-nPZETLTo


US acute care beds= 915,559
US ICU beds = 107,316

1% deathrate from Covid 19 = 3.3 million projected.

That is acute ICU deaths. We know from other studies that 8 more die in 6 months, for each that perishes in ICU. Worst case estimate is 27 million deaths, in USA within a 2 year period.

Canadian data:
More than 1 in 5 (22%) hospital stays included an intensive care unit (ICU) admission. Among those patients with ICU stays, 60% received ventilation and almost 32% died in the facility.

Predicting pandemic course continues to be hard. It's unsure if there is capacity in service for large numbers if Delta infects every human.

 

[Stealthie]

Gotta say, much as I'm in favour of people having the right to act however they want, regardless of how stupid it is (as long as they aren't endangering others - which is kind of the key issue here), I find it a bit odd the way people are squealing about their "rights" being infringed as a result of C19 vaccinations.

We recently had a case in the UK, for example, where a stupid person was refusing to be vaccinated because she'd heard that the vaccination includes stuff derived from cows, which conflicted with her religious beliefs, and wailing that her employer (the owner of a care home) was infringing on her right to religious freedom by insisting she had to be vaccinated.

Well, here's the thing...

You HAVE the right to religious freedom in the UK.
You have the right to worship a sky fairy or a zombie-hippy.
You have the right to refuse to come into contact with certain animal products.
You have the right to stand in a bucket of poop and call yourself Obi Wan if that's what floats your boat.

What you DO NOT have the right to is a job that requires you do things that conflict with your religious beliefs.

EVERY job infringes on people's freedom in one way or another, with uniforms, codes of conduct, ethics or even if only in the time that you're compelled to spend at work.

If you aren't prepared to accept those infringements on your freedom, quit the job and go and exercise your freedoms elsewhere.

 

[thistle]

Gotta say, much as I'm in favour of people having the right to act however they want, regardless of how stupid it is (as long as they aren't endangering others - which is kind of the key issue here), I find it a bit odd the way people are squealing about their "rights" being infringed as a result of C19 vaccinations.

We recently had a case in the UK, for example, where a stupid person was refusing to be vaccinated because she'd heard that the vaccination includes stuff derived from cows, which conflicted with her religious beliefs, and wailing that her employer (the owner of a care home) was infringing on her right to religious freedom by insisting she had to be vaccinated.

I made the terrible mistake of watching the latest bonkers monologue from Neil Oliver on twitter, from his show on GBNews. Raging against lockdowns, claiming lockdowns were actually about "demoralising" us. He said lockdowns have only had "bad results". And the one thing he never mentions once in his rant? People dying, NHS overwhelmed.

He doesn't care. As long as he and Laurence Fox can meet up and spread covid to others.

This forum won't allow me to say what I think of Neil Oliver.

 

[Morbad]

Initial experiments in inoculation discovered the inherent problems here, when it was discovered that yes, it was theoretically possible to give someone a scratch and put the pus from smallpox scabs into it, and they'd develop immunity to smallpox. Sometimes. But they were just as likely to develop a lethal case. Because they had no way of knowing how everyone's immune systems differ and how much of that just comes down to chance. Some fought off that initial infection at the inoculation site at the early stage and developed immunity, some didn't, it spread through their blood, and it progressed to a full infection.

The trick we discovered when we figured vaccination out was that you could find something similar enough, such as a closely related virus which doesn't cause the same harm, that the body's immune system would recognise the target virus if subsequently exposed to it following an infection with the benign one.

Even early vaccinations were far safer than variolization, but the latter still had a fatality rate a full order of magnitude lower than a natural/incidental infection.

Smallpox: Variolation

www.nlm.nih.gov

Something I feel I should know more about is what are the consequences of a small exposure to covid.
Is this a method for topping up our immune systems or doesn’t it work like that?
Can a small exposure provoke an immune response? Or is it that a small exposure means simply that there’s not enough virion to take hold and our bodies don’t even notice, like a tipping point, once beyond a threshold, that’s it and we’ll get full blown covid and fate deals with it?
I’ve seen that a large exposure doesn’t bode well, compared to small, so given that here in the uk at least, the intention appears to be let it go wild, would it be more prudent to allow a chance of mild expose as opposed to waiting on any vaccine top ups?

I imagine it would be much harder to precisely control exposure to an airborne coronavirus than something like smallpox, and any intentional exposure seems both risky and senseless when there are several safe and effective vaccines available.

 

[metatheurgist]

Family’s tragic battle months after Covid

A Sydney man is still grappling with the ongoing effects of coronavirus, more than 18 months after he and his wife caught the disease, with fears he could soon be put on a heart transplant list due to the virus.

www.news.com.au

This is going to get more common in the next few years. I dunno why anyone would risk it.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Family’s tragic battle months after Covid

A Sydney man is still grappling with the ongoing effects of coronavirus, more than 18 months after he and his wife caught the disease, with fears he could soon be put on a heart transplant list due to the virus.

www.news.com.au

This is going to get more common in the next few years. I dunno why anyone would risk it.

The reality of a now endemic virus is that everybody is going to catch it.

We have some mental gears to change. What sustainable things can we do? Both individually and as societies? Goes far past vaccinations.

 

[Sunyavadin]

I imagine it would be much harder to precisely control exposure to an airborne coronavirus than something like smallpox, and any intentional exposure seems both risky and senseless when there are several safe and effective vaccines available.

Indeed, and as paediatric wards continue to be swamped, our government here are realising the stupidity of their choice to go against every other country and pursue a policy of mass exposure of children as a means of trying to give them immunity rather than just vaccinating them over the summer when we had the chance, and have finally reversed that decision. Too late for many kids of course who are now living with lifelong cognitive disability, heart problems, etc.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

An unvaccinated visiting Head of State in NYC was photographed eating pizza on the street, after being denied entry to the restaurant. That's the rule in NYC, so he better learn to like eating standing up.

It was Brazil's leader, of course. He was in hospital this year after enduring 10 days of hiccups, a mild Gypsy curse.

 

[metatheurgist]

More rational behaviour from those that know better then everyone else.

‘Cowards’: Seven reporter responds after ‘urine’ attack

A star Channel 7 reporter has responded to an ugly attack during Melbourne’s violent tradie protest on Tuesday, where he was grabbed around the neck and doused in what’s thought to be urine.

www.news.com.au

RSPCA to investigate alleged dog kicking at Melbourne protest

The RSPCA has confirmed it is investigating the alleged assault of a dog at a protest in Melbourne this week.

www.news.com.au

Another Free-Thinker has perished.

Plea for donations after anti-vax mum’s death

Thousands of dollars have been raised to cover the funeral expenses of a staunch anti-vaxxer and mum of four who succumbed to Covid-19 last week.

www.news.com.au

 

[Stigbob]

Still going in Melbourne, the protest has been hijacked by the far right again.

“There were some who were construction workers. But I’m saying and I think I’m sure the police are aware of this too, that there is a very small group of people, not just in Melbourne but around the country, hard-right extremists who are trying to weaponise the COVID lockdown,” Labor MP and former union leader Bill Shorten said of Monday’s wild scenes.

“There is a network of hard right man-baby Nazis, just people who just want to cause trouble.”

CFMEU boss John Setka, who was personally abused and criticised at Monday’s angry rally, called protesters “drunken fascist un-Australian morons”.

“The crowd was heavily infiltrated by neo-Nazis and other right wing extremist groups and it is clear that a minority of those who participated were actual union members,” CFMEU national construction secretary Dave Noonan said in a statement.

'Man-baby Nazis': Melbourne anti-vaxxer protests swarm for a second day - Times News Express

LiveHundreds of protesters have swarmed Melbourne for a second day, massing outside state parliament and the CFMEU building as tensions with police

timesnewsexpress.com

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I wonder what the future of this virus is. They don’t think or feel, they just reproduce parasitically. Becoming super infectious without killing any hosts has to be the ideal state for a virus. To evolve into a more deadly form is completely counter productive. Perhaps allowing the thing to spread around in a vaccinated population isn’t as dangerous as it first seems.

Source: https://youtu.be/oLZ0dZ3BngQ

While true I would imagine that the counter to that is that there's no particular reason why any specific virus should be in its ideal state. As you say they don't think or plan, so in theory there's no reason why a virus couldn't exist that would wipe out its host and itself in the process. It's not ideal for the virus, but it doesn't care. In the same way a fire doesn't stop and think "hmm, maybe I shouldn't burn the entire house down to the ground as swiftly as possible, because then I'll run out of fuel and then die".

 

[Stigbob]

Do we really value the opinion of people like this man or should we just go in hard with compulsory jabs ?.

A 49-year-old man admitted to shooting the petrol station cashier at the weekend after his victim asked him to put a face mask on.

MSN

www.msn.com