Fdev, can we lessen the engineering grind just a tad?
- Thread starter Threeofseven
- Start date
It's not as much the grind, I rarely think of something in Elite being grindy....I'v usually moved to doing something else in-game long before it seems grindy.
What I can't understand, is why there is soo much useless trash in the game that can't be traded with the bartender.
Considering that we can only carry 1000 max of data, items & goods, why can't everything be traded with the barkeep?
Particularly data. I'm finding that data needed for upgrades, some are rare as hen's teeth to find, my allocation of data is filled with stuff I don't need.......yet?
This mechanic in the game seems incomplete & certainly unbalanced. I'd like to see the bartender accepting everything as trade, even if I've to trade 30-40 useless items/data to get 1 item/data that I need.......I don't care how high (within reason) the trade off would be.
Sometimes it's like the game is reading my mind & knows what I'm looking for & making sure I don't find any of it.
Yesterday, at just one Settlement I picked up EIGHT items of Graphene.................yet the previous day I had to trade other stuff to get the 6 items of Graphene I needed for an upgrade.
I just hope that there's some love for this further down the line.........like when consoles finally join in the fun & we are just the 'guinea pigs' getting the right balance for Frontier.
What I can't understand, is why there is soo much useless trash in the game that can't be traded with the bartender.
Considering that we can only carry 1000 max of data, items & goods, why can't everything be traded with the barkeep?
Particularly data. I'm finding that data needed for upgrades, some are rare as hen's teeth to find, my allocation of data is filled with stuff I don't need.......yet?
This mechanic in the game seems incomplete & certainly unbalanced. I'd like to see the bartender accepting everything as trade, even if I've to trade 30-40 useless items/data to get 1 item/data that I need.......I don't care how high (within reason) the trade off would be.
Sometimes it's like the game is reading my mind & knows what I'm looking for & making sure I don't find any of it.
Yesterday, at just one Settlement I picked up EIGHT items of Graphene.................yet the previous day I had to trade other stuff to get the 6 items of Graphene I needed for an upgrade.
I just hope that there's some love for this further down the line.........like when consoles finally join in the fun & we are just the 'guinea pigs' getting the right balance for Frontier.
Without some kind of grind to occupy dopamine driven collectors, Frontiers steam numbers would plummet even further. The alternative would be to invest money in developing gameplay loops, and since every time they try add gameplay mechanics, the vocal minority howls until it's deleted, there really isn't much point is there? Even the lazy scan mechanic that took 10 seconds to master was too much gameplay for some people. I honestly don't blame Frontier for being frugal on content development. What I think they should do though is whatever it takes to increase performance in combat zones and then try to make it addicting, like adding loot, because combat is pretty much the only real highlight of Odyssey and tbh other than the horrific frame rates that makes it painful to play, the core mechanics behind it are kind of ok.
ED is a sandbox.
They give you the sand... you need some imagination to work with it.
No imagination? Play something else.
Mass Effect is still a nice alternative if you want hand-held guided play. And it may be replayed several times for complete enjoyment of inter-crew relations.
Manufacturing instructions are the ones I think are the biggest problem. Not the rarest data point material, but still competes with all the other tens of types of data for space (and in mission rewards too). And unlike every other data type where you need maybe ten of them, you need hundreds of manufacturing instructions just to upgrade a couple of suits and weapons.
Everything else can be traded for [1], obtained as a mission reward in the quantities required, or is relatively common salvage.
On the other hand, it's not like ship engineering in that you have tens of ships with tens of modules each all of which might want upgrading - you've got three suits, maybe a selection of weapons, and you can get G3 in the shops.
[1] Everything can be traded for if you count trading with other players. But then of course you need something of value to give them in return. Always the problem with the "make Horizons engineering materials tradeable" request - it's a good idea, they should be, but it's not going to solve your problems of not wanting to spend time on the engineering process.
Everything else can be traded for [1], obtained as a mission reward in the quantities required, or is relatively common salvage.
On the other hand, it's not like ship engineering in that you have tens of ships with tens of modules each all of which might want upgrading - you've got three suits, maybe a selection of weapons, and you can get G3 in the shops.
[1] Everything can be traded for if you count trading with other players. But then of course you need something of value to give them in return. Always the problem with the "make Horizons engineering materials tradeable" request - it's a good idea, they should be, but it's not going to solve your problems of not wanting to spend time on the engineering process.
Don't agree with you on that daft scan mechanic.....glad they revoked that one!
But do agree that when you've shot & killed someone, you should then be able to loot them for stuff.....though I recall a poster pointing out it could affect the PEGI rating, for actions on a defenceless body............not sure if that was likely though!
Huh, that seems unlikely...
"Oh, I play casually. Just four hours a day, three days in a row."
For some perspective, a casual gamer doesn't play EDO 100hrs per month. That's gonna be a year for them, or more. And spending a year wasting all your leisure game time on unlocks is pants. Which is the problem OP points out.
MI are mission rewards too as you say, which helps at least somewhat. Financial Projections, Opinion Polls and SDP are likely to be an even bigger issue.
Been to 250 planets or so, dine countless missions all over the bubble. Still got zero SDP.
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Of course. I'd rather not play than do that hundreds of times.
Would agree with the Manufacturing Instructions, I quickly run out & have found that finding that crashed Satellite Mission with two, I can't resist leaving the Site, entering Supercruise, checking in the panel to see if the Site is still there, then returning & raiding it again.......& again......& again.....& again...................'til I have enough for that upgrade
I think there are many alternative games speak of "casual" experience. Even in this game, shops providing G3 gear still works for most of sitations.Huh, that seems unlikely...
"Oh, I play casually. Just four hours a day, three days in a row."
For some perspective, a casual gamer doesn't play EDO 100hrs per month. That's gonna be a year for them, or more. And spending a year wasting all your leisure game time on unlocks is pants. Which is the problem OP points out.
If the goal is to max out all, then that's something need to pay with, either time or better understanding of game system. After grind up all you want, the game is pretty much casual in your standard. But before that this game is still fun. Actually I was in colonia when EDO released, all days with pre upgraded G3 ones on all different situations, that's not totally bad playing experience. This FPS part is not like CS, it's more like a HITMAN series. You dont grind then play with more mindsets about stealth, remembering NPC route, alarm position, hiding spots on all types of bases. That is still great amount of fun.
The point is, if anyone want to be "casual" then do not compare with all maxed out players who paid much more time in this game or do not expect easy winning in high challenge base or cz without practicing combat skill and tactics.
stormyuk
Volunteer Moderator
You duped me there. I thought you'd created some kind of guide.
I was disappointed. 3/10.
Yes - the unlock requirements are trickier. 6 FP, 6 OP and 3 SDP at the moment for me. On the other hand, you only need to do them once ever, and you only miss out on access to one blueprint for each of those while you wait, which can be covered by finding pre-engineered equipment.
There are already many video guides there on tube.
If I summary all of them here and let dev feel it's "too easy" then well I guess will join the complain soon : )
Here is simple thing, if the grind is unreasonable then go ahead to use WHATEVER ways to collect mats, do not care notoriety, mission fail, supercruise refill even relog refill.
For example, if POIs are relog refillable, then can spend some time on INARA to check what POI provides. It's really not that hard to get 25 weapon schematics or MIs in 1 or 2 hours. (Shhhh).
FP look to be pretty common from IND/EXT/ARGI ports - 20-30% chance of getting one on a visit. I guess if you're not going to those types of site (or not getting sites with those port?)
OP seem around 10% from HABs - again IND/EXT/AGRI can have 2-3 HABs so targeting those, rather than Tourist sites that ppl like, as they have a variety of ports
MI - really widespread - AGRI/IND/EXT - even LAB ports, up to 50% chance of getting them. You need a lot, but I tend to run out of other things
SDP ... yeah, those SEC ports are rarer so impact the chances. They're still too rare, or the goal is too high.
(from https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/odyssey-engineer-unlocks-and-the-bgs.587911/ as ever - mostly data from Patch 6, but I don't think the rates have changed, though I have seen 3+ SDP this week without a lot of base repairs...)
Edit: Interesting that Smear Campaigns don't come up - despite actually being one of the most well hidden things (along with Push). I don't think either are available from settlements in Colonia at all (at least they weren't last time I was out there)
OP seem around 10% from HABs - again IND/EXT/AGRI can have 2-3 HABs so targeting those, rather than Tourist sites that ppl like, as they have a variety of ports
MI - really widespread - AGRI/IND/EXT - even LAB ports, up to 50% chance of getting them. You need a lot, but I tend to run out of other things
SDP ... yeah, those SEC ports are rarer so impact the chances. They're still too rare, or the goal is too high.
(from https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/odyssey-engineer-unlocks-and-the-bgs.587911/ as ever - mostly data from Patch 6, but I don't think the rates have changed, though I have seen 3+ SDP this week without a lot of base repairs...)
Edit: Interesting that Smear Campaigns don't come up - despite actually being one of the most well hidden things (along with Push). I don't think either are available from settlements in Colonia at all (at least they weren't last time I was out there)
Sorry, but that is false. It's not a flat percentage by port type, nor is it directly related to bgs state. Some tourist bases will almost always give 1-2 OP per run, and have been doing that for many months, whereas others will never.
Never said it was - but if you move around it will average out to that. And I thought you were the one saying OP would be a problem for people ...
For me, the whole problem with engineering, both ships and on foot, is the dichotomy between my character's wealth (which I acquired without grinding, simply by doing activities I enjoyed), and her actions required to perform engineering.
On the one hand, she's a space billionaire. She has more than enough wealth to acquire any basic ship and module she'd like. She can manipulate the fate of star systems via her wealth alone, and would happily spend it all to spread the light of freedom and prosperity throughout Human space... though she'll often make a healthy profit as she fights against the Evil Galactic Federation. I honestly would've preferred Frontier not have catered so heavily to complaints of the Veruca Salts of the community, because trying to do that on a budget, while still upgrading her ship(s), would make for much more interesting day-to-day decisions that what's currently on my plate.
Let's not get into how nonsensical the in-game economy has become, thanks to Frontier's Monty Haul Campaign of Veruca Salt appeasement. A simple spacesuit costs more than a spaceship, and you can acquire tens of tons of personal weapons and armor as a commodity for less than the cost of a single example of the same.
On the other hand, the actions she needs to take to engineer her ships and suits are more in line with the struggling Commander from previous iterations of the game. From taking questionable actions simply because they're offering an engineering component, to dropping into USSs in search of destroyed ships, to robbing a settlement she lands on to acquire some inexpensive commodities for another mission, which just happened to be sold on the same system, these are the actions of a Commander struggling to survive in an uncaring and harsh universe.
Who just happens to be a space billionaire, and was paid a thirty times what those commodities were worth at their destination... and the issuing faction could've bought a ship capable of doing for the same mission for less than what they paid me.
The frustrating thing for me is that Frontier clearly have decided what all these materials are worth, credit wise. When you take a mission and take the materials, your credit reward is reduced accordingly. I'd much rather Frontier fix the in-game economy, perform a balance pass, and then let us pay credits to improve our ships, along side the current system. Having multiple paths to the destination is much better than a single path that feels as disjointed as things stand today.
On the one hand, she's a space billionaire. She has more than enough wealth to acquire any basic ship and module she'd like. She can manipulate the fate of star systems via her wealth alone, and would happily spend it all to spread the light of freedom and prosperity throughout Human space... though she'll often make a healthy profit as she fights against the Evil Galactic Federation. I honestly would've preferred Frontier not have catered so heavily to complaints of the Veruca Salts of the community, because trying to do that on a budget, while still upgrading her ship(s), would make for much more interesting day-to-day decisions that what's currently on my plate.
Let's not get into how nonsensical the in-game economy has become, thanks to Frontier's Monty Haul Campaign of Veruca Salt appeasement. A simple spacesuit costs more than a spaceship, and you can acquire tens of tons of personal weapons and armor as a commodity for less than the cost of a single example of the same.
On the other hand, the actions she needs to take to engineer her ships and suits are more in line with the struggling Commander from previous iterations of the game. From taking questionable actions simply because they're offering an engineering component, to dropping into USSs in search of destroyed ships, to robbing a settlement she lands on to acquire some inexpensive commodities for another mission, which just happened to be sold on the same system, these are the actions of a Commander struggling to survive in an uncaring and harsh universe.
Who just happens to be a space billionaire, and was paid a thirty times what those commodities were worth at their destination... and the issuing faction could've bought a ship capable of doing for the same mission for less than what they paid me.
The frustrating thing for me is that Frontier clearly have decided what all these materials are worth, credit wise. When you take a mission and take the materials, your credit reward is reduced accordingly. I'd much rather Frontier fix the in-game economy, perform a balance pass, and then let us pay credits to improve our ships, along side the current system. Having multiple paths to the destination is much better than a single path that feels as disjointed as things stand today.
What amused me was him calling putting in five hours a day "casual." I count myself lucky if I can find five hours a week to play this type of game.