Fdev, can we lessen the engineering grind just a tad?

If 2.8% of current Odyssey players are crafting their suits 'n guns I would be shocked.

(Not @) Sally, spill the beans, what percentage of players are grinding landleg engineers (and why so many useless mats that can only be sold, did the grindathon gameplay also not have time to be finished in time for release)?
 
ED is a sandbox.
They give you the sand... you need some imagination to work with it.

No imagination? Play something else.
Mass Effect is still a nice alternative if you want hand-held guided play. And it may be replayed several times for complete enjoyment of inter-crew relations.
So it's fault of the gamer for having shallow, ridiculus gameplay loop based on repetition behaviour?

Seems a nice way to hide the problem addressing on someone else: bit unfair to me it looks
 
Edit: Interesting that Smear Campaigns don't come up - despite actually being one of the most well hidden things (along with Push). I don't think either are available from settlements in Colonia at all (at least they weren't last time I was out there)
Smear Campaigns aren't available out here, but then if you're out here you don't have any use for Smear Campaigns, so it evens out.

Push is readily available from Irregular Markers of course, but I did pick up two yesterday from settlements as well.

The frustrating thing for me is that Frontier clearly have decided what all these materials are worth, credit wise. When you take a mission and take the materials, your credit reward is reduced accordingly.
I think that's just because it'd be strange not to reduce the credit reward by something, though (and in Odyssey, because you can sell surplus and junk to the bartender)

500k for a G5 Horizons material or 50k for a rarer Odyssey material is incredibly cheap compared with the benefits you can get from them.

But then it's not as if 1 credit is plausibly worth 1 credit even in the original ED 1.0, never mind Horizons or Odyssey.
 
Right now the Odyssey engineering grind is unreal. It would take a casual gamer months to years to upgrade all their suits and weapons. Grind isn’t gameplay, we don’t like it, we don’t want it and it’s a negative aspect of the game that has lead many to flat out stop playingand potential players to not buy the game.

A good way to lessen the grind would be to make data, and even items, collected count x3 like it does in Horizons. An even better fix would be to allow us to simply purchase most upgrades, such as weapon attachments.

Fully support. It doesn't necessarily means to make the demands smaller, adding a possibility to exchange all kinds of mats would be an even better (IMO) solution.
 
Right now the Odyssey engineering grind is unreal. It would take a casual gamer months to years to upgrade all their suits and weapons. Grind isn’t gameplay, we don’t like it, we don’t want it and it’s a negative aspect of the game that has lead many to flat out stop playingand potential players to not buy the game.
Don't grind, just let the game reward you as you play.

I remember when I had to get jumponium one single unit at a time from just driving around. Took forever, but was worth it for what I wanted to do like discovering the system nearest Andromeda. But usually, I just let experience and time mount up the rewards. Why get angsty? There's no "end game" to shoot for.
 
One of the things that I'd love to see, if they didn't want to make materials/goods/data outright purchasable from bartenders for credits, would be some better ways to specifically home on on the type of thing you want.

Making the purchasable for credits would be a terrible idea as it'd reduce all the engineering to "just go mine platinum for a few days and get all the materials you need", but It'd be interesting to see some other way of trading for them, for instance...

Say, if you could trade combat bonds for them.
Yanno, "I'll take my payment in goods, thanks". You fight some wars for a faction, and in exchange for your help, they let you pick some items out of their stores instead of paying you credits.
Mission rewards that just pay you a material exchange voucher rather than a specific material, so you can pick which material you actually want - maybe limit it to the type of station, so if you want data rewards you'll have to do some work for someone that owns a hi-tech station.
That sort of thing.
 
An upgrade progression loop is good if done in the right space and balance. The problem right now with the FPS gear grind loop is that it's out of balance with the game design's previous logic. The ship path sort of made sense with the modules costs and engineering grind being a secondary aspect. The FPS gear should be easier than that flow by a large margin to stay logically consistent with the two.

Beyond that the biggest problem is this: The FPS gear grind takes away a logical step of progression that made the ship grind work; the ability to buy modules for it as a first step prior to the engineering phase. We should be able to purchase basic gear for our weapons "Without engineering" in the shop in the form of weapon attachments. Example: Scopes, high capacity magazines, recoil stabilizers, longer barrels, muzzles, silencers etc. And then engineering should require a bit less of a mat grind to enhance damage, fire rate, distance, bullet spread, weapon characteristics, overheating etc.

But the designer failed to follow the same logic in design as the ships which was good and sound in terms of realistic flow. You could play the game for cash to get modules and then later grind for mats afterwards for the improving the function of said parts you bought with cash. We need that consistency here as well as a lesser grind to logically balance that flow into feeling like instead of a massive complex ship, its a suit or weapon that should be lighter to upgrade but still be a rewarding fun sense of progression.

So the flow should be:

1. Purchase weapons for cash
2. Earn or use additional money to purchase modules or attachments for your weapons to customize them and improve their default ability or lack of.
3. Engineer the weapons to effect base characteristics ( enhance damage, fire rate, bullet spread, overheat, effective distance, night vision Scope etc.

Regarding gear suits due to the more limited scope of customization I am okay with these staying as engineering only and no modules. Weapons however I feel were done wrongly. They could of sold the base suits and then sold all the cosmetics in the store as well as further pieces of armor that improved the suits default armor levels or resistance levels if they wanted to keep that consistency.

So the flow could be:

1. Purchase new base suit with credits.
2. upgrade armor level, resistances by purchasing add ons (torso, legs, shoulders, arm pads with credits) to get maximum value.
3. Engineering suit now only affects function modules (more carry weight, night vision, Quieter footsteps etc.)

This would keep the flow consistant across the board and make the customization part of something to buy with in-game cash instead of the meaningless dress up in the cosmetics store which honestly feels stupid. It would become a store purchase function for armor/resistance with retained ability to purchase the look you wanted still.
 
I understand that there are times where you can make a grind out of anything, but the way materials and engineering work in E:D reallly incentivizes grinding mentality. You have to really work at not falling into the grind trap, and ignore the fact that you know there are a ton of not-fun workarounds and shortcuts.

If you could get materials at a reasonable pace through gameplay it would be one thing, but to make hardly any progress on engineering something you can spend 30 minutes on a grind loop, or who knows how many hours on gameplay methods to get the same things.

For ships, one of the most fun ways to get mats I've found are pirate activity POI's or SS's (can't remember which), where its a lot of condas etc and you can farm a lot of materials that way, but they aren't easy to find and its a decent amount of work. Or you can just spend 15 minutes finding a good system with HGSS's and log grind them for another 15 minutes and probably make the same amount of progress.

Please do make more/better gameplay methods of getting mats and/or reduce mat requirements for engineering!
 
Shhhh, actually in 1 month I can max all of them : P

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-great-grind-of-odyssey-gears.588202

I think at least dev put some idea that allowing fast grinding. As soon as you figure them out, building relationship with the station power, find the POIs then can grind really fast. The regular time to max out a weapon from G3 to G5 and 4 mod slots usually around 3 days of casual playing (<=5hrs).

Wow.. to think 5 hrs is considered “casual playing”..
 
They won't and can't reduce the grind in Odyssey even a little. Personally, I'm surprised it is as lax as it is. The problem is simple. There is no Odyssey progress wipe coming. Odyssey is a live game on PC. Never had a beta. Everything you do on PC in Odyssey is for real and creates that much more distance between you and console commanders who do not have Odyssey. FDev knows what problems would arise if the bulk of PC players have completed all the Odyssey game loops (or at the very least are months of grinding ahead) prior to console players even being able to step foot on a planet . The goal for FDev is to keep PC players in Odyssey (AKA beta testers that keep their progress) from progressing too much. If Odyssey console ever materializes (pun intended), I would expect 2 things by that time. A) There will be more game loops (beyond the race to upgrade suites and weapons) and B) The grind will be reduced substantially for all. Call it the big "reconciliation" or "platform catch-up". It's a strange situation where FDev had to release too early in order to meet financial obligations and in doing so created this platform disparity problem. I think the big grind wall and, perhaps, the FPS problems work in tandem towards limiting the disparity between platforms as there are many PC commanders who do not want to climb over the grind wall and/or cannot fully participate in much of Odyssey because of poor performance. As time passes and the release of console (console = 1/3 or the ED base) continues to be delayed these issues become more of a problem. It's a pickle.
 
I think the problem with the grind is the inconsistency with availability vs requirement. I've been stuck on SDP's for an eternity (I now only need 2 thankfully) - capacity limits considered, I've got virtually everything I need for my upgrade requirements but the bottleneck is unlocking the required engineers due to the lack of SDP's and to a lesser extent Financial Projections/various Media. That's the most infuriating thing IMO. If the engineers were easier to unlock I don't particularly think the grind for say Suit Schematics or Manufacturing Instructions is any worse than we have in Horizons.
 
If the engineers were easier to unlock I don't particularly think the grind for say Suit Schematics or Manufacturing Instructions is any worse than we have in Horizons.
Apart from the fact that we can actually replace or remove engineering on ship modules whereas in Odyssey they get locked-in to the suit or weapon, which exponentially increases the requirements for gathering mats over Horizons engineering so they aren't really equal. I think once more people unlock Odyssey engineers they are all going to realise this but your point regarding availability vs requirement still stands.
 
SDPs are actually pretty easy to get if you're prepared to relog, but that's terrible game play. I don't feel the need to relog in Borizons but I do in Oddy.
 
Apart from the fact that we can actually replace or remove engineering on ship modules whereas in Odyssey they get locked-in to the suit or weapon, which exponentially increases the requirements for gathering mats over Horizons engineering so they aren't really equal. I think once more people unlock Odyssey engineers they are all going to realise this but your point regarding availability vs requirement still stands.

There are no engineers in Colonia yet where I am but once there are, I intend to test the mods on G2 suits amd weapons before setting up my G5 set. I think you can upgrade 10 G1 suits to G2 for the same price as upgrading one G4 to 5?

Something like that. So I think tactics are different in upgrading suits and weapons than ships but for me it's more interesting not to reproduce the exact same system on the ground as we have in space. There are far fewer of them for a start, 30 something ships in game? 3 suits and how long did it take you to buy, A rate then engineer your ship? Probably longer.

So I don't think it's over the top really. Just because a few voices think upgraded suits are a god given right, I'm not expecting to have full upgraded suits overnight, making do with less engineered gear increases your skill level and personally I'm enjoying the process.
 
Beyond that the biggest problem is this: The FPS gear grind takes away a logical step of progression that made the ship grind work; the ability to buy modules for it as a first step prior to the engineering phase. We should be able to purchase basic gear for our weapons "Without engineering" in the shop in the form of weapon attachments. Example: Scopes, high capacity magazines, recoil stabilizers, longer barrels, muzzles, silencers etc. And then engineering should require a bit less of a mat grind to enhance damage, fire rate, distance, bullet spread, weapon characteristics, overheating etc.
Nicely put, Fdev have attempted to force the grind on players to even get scopes / silencers / night vision etc.
Love to see someone defend that!
 
I appreciate that I came to the forums to see if they fixed FPS combat yet and it's related peripheral gameplay; only to find this was top thread on the odyssey board. I've been saying the same thing since alpha, the grind is completely contrary to the existing lore, counterintuitive, and mostly illogical as it is inconsistent with reality.
The FPS combat itself is pretty horrendous and seems like something made by a typical Euro with zero experience in contemporary FPS games much less any real world experience with firearms, ownership of firearms, and their end-user utility. As an American; I can almost taste the real world politics through my screen. It is truly distasteful.
I haven't played Elite Dangerous since May as it hasn't met my expectations as a customer, nor has it even come close. Until Frontier pulls their heads out of the sand and performs what is essentially a value change for weapon performance and grind requirements related to FPS gameplay I won't be coming back.
 
SDPs are actually pretty easy to get if you're prepared to relog, but that's terrible game play. I don't feel the need to relog in Borizons but I do in Oddy.
If you can find specific IM Threat 1 or 2 which since the last update seem to have almost vanished.
 
Apart from the fact that we can actually replace or remove engineering on ship modules whereas in Odyssey they get locked-in to the suit or weapon, which exponentially increases the requirements for gathering mats over Horizons engineering so they aren't really equal. I think once more people unlock Odyssey engineers they are all going to realise this but your point regarding availability vs requirement still stands.
And you can trade everything in Horizons. Which makes even the useless data useful in a way.
 
Mission rewards that just pay you a material exchange voucher rather than a specific material, so you can pick which material you actually want - maybe limit it to the type of station, so if you want data rewards you'll have to do some work for someone that owns a hi-tech station.
This could be something the mission givers in the stations do - having to wander around for a few minutes to see if any of them are offering a mission you want for a reward you want is pointless even if you can get double pay, when you can scan 60-70 missions at once from the terminal. If a successful negotiation let you pick a material reward, rather than just increasing the payout size, I'd check them out all the time.
 
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