Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
Viajero said:
If I have understood this correctly this mean regular logs of the state of the game session at certain intervals (how often?). Is it the client generating those logs or the server? At any rate this seems to imply that either the client and/or the servers are going to be imposed an additional data transmission or generation load that may require bandwidth for as many as 50 players per server. I just hope this is insignificant or that at least its impact has been evaluated within the context of the already "stretched as it is" servers.
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It’s a dirty bit of technical debt that will add a touch more load to the already crashy servers, yes ;)


https://twitter.com/x/status/1448371892176371712
Source: https://twitter.com/DrChadMcKinney/status/1448371892176371712

https://twitter.com/x/status/1448417132216131591
Source: https://twitter.com/DrChadMcKinney/status/1448417132216131591

https://twitter.com/x/status/1448857277063073798
Source: https://twitter.com/DrChadMcKinney/status/1448857277063073798


Upsettingly it seems Chris is still involved with the PU too ;)
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
StuartGT said:
Could be paying Crytek for the use of Cryengine, which was mentioned as being obtained in last year's financials.
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Yeah SA’s accountant snake was pondering that too…

shrach said:
The accounts are in. The main two takeaways:
1. They appear to have had some issue receiving their tax credits in 2020 but they are assuming they will still receive them.
2. They paid a dividend. Basically the Calder investment (£23m in the UK) that was of course for marketing has been used to payout the shareholders. A £1m payout, something like £800k to Chris, £100k to the Calders, £100k split between the others. Not a profitable way for the Calders to get a return on their investment...but should expect more going forward. Quite looking forward to the Elms spin on this one and the faithful to announce that independently wealthy Chris is right to take their cash, on top of all the other cash he and his family have taken from the companies.


Cloud Imperium UK Limited (Parent company)
2020 was great, the UK booked £32m (2019 was £23m) in revenue. Costs rose from £31m to £32m. Adding other incomes of £5m to those revenues, that made 2020 a profit of £4.8m instead of a loss of £2m in previous year. So £7m better in 2020 than 2019...
The shareholders have actually starting taking money out of the company via dividends, £1m in 2020. Done by way of the share premium account because parent company itself has negative p&l reserves.
Extra ~£2.06m in intangible assets in 2020. Specified as Patents and Licences. (Eg: They paid £2.06m for that CryEngine licence to settle the lawsuit).
Actual cash in bank accounts only rose from £19m to £20m despite the much better profit results.
They had not yet received their tax credit payment for 2020. They are due to receive £9.2m for two years worth of tax credits at some point after year end of 2020. Curious.
Just noticed that there is cash allocated to other director(s) with a total that raised from £70k to £110k.
The auditors have diligently reported that Coutts still hold a charge over all the video game IP but that the amount outstanding on that loan is zero.

Cloud Imperium Games Limited (subsidiary, formerly Foundry 42)
Erin got a raise from £283k to £292k.
Total employee wages rose from £17.6m to £18.2m. (including RSI wages here, see below). Average employees rose from 391 to 432. You can draw your own conclusions on that ratio.

Roberts Space Industries Ltd (subsidiary that money just passes through)
Continues to show salaries of some £1.1m (£1.4m in 2019) and states it has zero employees. There is a disclosure that it relates to recharges from a fellow group company.
These accounts are always just kind of fudged to always show exactly zero profit and a balance sheet of £1.
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Darkfyre99

Darkfyre99
Agony_Aunt said:
CIG UK financials released

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/q93wti
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/q93wti/cloud_imperium_uk_group_financials_1007559_paid/


Worth keeping in mind this does not show the whole picture, its UK only. If CIG were to release their full financials there are no obligations to do so for the US company and no obligations for them to get them audited by a third party.

UK has only 4 million in cash but this doesn't mean much since CIG has a load on companies and can move money between them. Most likely this is their slush fund for running the company in the UK. If they were holding a majority of their reserves in the UK then it would paint a very bleak picture, but that's not likely.

I am very curious about this line though



What don't CIG want people to know?

Still getting UK tax credits for being a "British" game - lol, the barefaced cheek. 5 million!

Erin signed it, so he's still alive.

1 million in dividends paid to shareholders. Worth keeping in mind, this is backers money going into the pockets of shareholders and its not salaries. Its discretionary, the board voted to given themselves this money. Assuming this was done based on % of shares, the Roberts family just took for themselves the better part of 1 million.

Highest paid director (presumably Erin?) salary was close to 300,000 pounds. Nice gig.

Looks like CIG UK is the parent company for CIG Germany. Didn't know that.

432 employees - wow, that means UK/Germany has more employees than the US if CR's 700 people working on SC number is right, although we don't know if it includes third parties or not.

Worth comparing with previous years. As I understand it cash on hand and equity are way down from 2019 - burn rate probably massive now with so many employees.

Hmm.. not sure if the same as dividends, but mention of 1 million from shares moved to profit and loss. Did someone cash out?

Is there an accountant in the house? @Yaffle - you up for it?
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So looks like the Roberts clan (and Calders) is getting even more blatant with their pilfering of this crowd funded project. I make that nearly five million pounds siphoned away from the nearly 32 million provided by backers through the magic of Hollywood accounting, and that’s just the overt stuff, in the only shell company required by law to divulge this information.


Makes you wonder how much they’re paying themselves in the rest of their companies…
 

StuartGT

StuartGT
Darkfyre99 said:
So looks like the Roberts clan (and Calders) is getting even more blatant with their pilfering of this crowd funded project. I make that nearly five million pounds siphoned away from the nearly 32 million provided by backers through the magic of Hollywood accounting, and that’s just the overt stuff, in the only shell company required by law to divulge this information.


Makes you wonder how much they’re paying themselves in the rest of their companies…
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It's not pilfering/siphoning/paying, it's a pledge :cool:
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
sovapid said:
this might be my all time favorite interaction from playing SC......

nwRhJY4.png
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Ok boomer :D

By the way, after you called me that the other day, went and checked. Apparently i'm too young to be a boomer. Im Generation X. Still trying to figure out what my mutant powers are though. Possibly something to do with sleeping in the middle of the day.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
VR Golgot said:
It’s a dirty bit of technical debt that will add a touch more load to the already crashy servers, yes ;)


https://twitter.com/x/status/1448371892176371712
Source: https://twitter.com/DrChadMcKinney/status/1448371892176371712

https://twitter.com/x/status/1448417132216131591
Source: https://twitter.com/DrChadMcKinney/status/1448417132216131591

https://twitter.com/x/status/1448857277063073798
Source: https://twitter.com/DrChadMcKinney/status/1448857277063073798


Upsettingly it seems Chris is still involved with the PU too ;)
Click to expand...

LOL, CR said makes it less bad for players because they are not fixing the actual cause of the issue.

Ah, i've seen projects like that before.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
So, while refunds is having fun dissecting CIG's financial report, a refundian crossposted the thread to /r/sc (probably a bad move doing that rather than just posting the financials and it was downvoted and then locked, with the backers who got in before the lock giving the expected comments.

Fair enough, went looking and... I can't find any thread discussing the financials. Its almost like the backers don't want to know how their money is being spent!

So i head over to Spectrum and.... nobody is discussing it there either (unless its already been deleted by Nightrider and bans have been handed out).

Seriously, backers don't have any interest in reading about the financials of the company they have "invested" in?

Are none of them interested to read that the board are giving themselves dividends for an unreleased product? I mean, surely the faithful want to take a look and then ensure there is a positive spin on the results!
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
Agony_Aunt said:
Seriously, backers don't have any interest in reading about the financials of the company they have "invested" in?
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Pretty normal really innit. Most gamers aren’t going to care.

It’s all in the presentation though really. That first refunds post was sketchy, and well, from the refunds sub…

Stick a post up noting that the top brass are paying themselves millions in bonus dividends (using the UK group’s low reserves as a mechanism), have paid 2m on a mystery license/patent, and have had trouble getting their UK tax rebate…

And you’d get plenty of people chewing over it. Some would care if the company is being run in a sustainable way. Others would just want to dreamcraft about what the license/patent is ;)
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
Agony_Aunt said:
So, while refunds is having fun dissecting CIG's financial report, a refundian crossposted the thread to /r/sc (probably a bad move doing that rather than just posting the financials and it was downvoted and then locked, with the backers who got in before the lock giving the expected comments.

Fair enough, went looking and... I can't find any thread discussing the financials. Its almost like the backers don't want to know how their money is being spent!

So i head over to Spectrum and.... nobody is discussing it there either (unless its already been deleted by Nightrider and bans have been handed out).

Seriously, backers don't have any interest in reading about the financials of the company they have "invested" in?

Are none of them interested to read that the board are giving themselves dividends for an unreleased product? I mean, surely the faithful want to take a look and then ensure there is a positive spin on the results!
Click to expand...
Yeah, owners handing themselves dividends when the company has not yet even released a single product (Chris Roberts close to a million at that) and given CIG pledged to reinvest all proceeds back into development should be pretty big news.

Wouldn´t be surprised if any of the usual gaming media outlets picked up on the news.
 

Space Menace

Space Menace
Agony_Aunt said:
Are none of them interested to read that the board are giving themselves dividends for an unreleased product? I mean, surely the faithful want to take a look and then ensure there is a positive spin on the results!
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I would be interested in seeing that info in writing.
Dividends are only paid out, if the company has made a profit. At this stage there isn't any profit, or doesn't seem to be.
I wonder where the directors feel the profit has come from ?
 

Space Menace

Space Menace
Xink said:
Hah, no profit. What do you call 31,762,819 pounds turnover from sales? Chump change?
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No I wouldn't consider there to be any profit in that figure. The company should have a set wage struture, until there is a shippable product there isn't really any profit to pay dividends out.
 

Space Menace

Space Menace
Agony_Aunt said:
Are none of them interested to read that the board are giving themselves dividends for an unreleased product? I mean, surely the faithful want to take a look and then ensure there is a positive spin on the results!
Click to expand...
Was it companies house you sourced the records (UK) or was it US records ?
 

Darkfyre99

Darkfyre99
Agony_Aunt said:
Ok boomer :D

By the way, after you called me that the other day, went and checked. Apparently i'm too young to be a boomer. Im Generation X. Still trying to figure out what my mutant powers are though. Possibly something to do with sleeping in the middle of the day.
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Same here.

Ironically, because both my parents were part of the “silent generation”, and my grandparents (except my maternal grandmother) were part of the “lost generation,” I have more in common with the baby boomer generation, especially since our family was struggling when I was young.

My youngest sister, OTOH, is pure Gen X in attitude.
 
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