Peregrina Aristocrats

[naukogriz]

Yes, we also hope for that, but there is nothing more permanent as temporary. We see dear developers have suddenly read this thread, and just want for confiramtion that PA don't expand righnt into our main system if we let them to gain inf above 75%.
If yes, you can take whole 18609 for PA, just not let them out of it.

Yes, technically one can hold it's influence manually, but that just means we'll be under constant pressure from 18609, and that's what we tried to avoid from the early beginning. It's better to redirect pilot's efforts to something more great than just guarding one nasty minor faction.

 

[naukogriz]

Also don't think changing rules each time someone has some BGS issues is good. Especcially without informing all sides.

 

[Northpin]

PS... going to get me the Peregrina Permit too... i might be already allied with them since i did a bit of BGS work for them, but if not - i will have to dump some Exploration data and push them (involuntarily) some more in HIP18609

Erm... Peregrina Gateway is a bit weird.
No shipyard or Outfitting but it does have Crew Lounge
No Universal Cartographics either - so it's kinda hard to get allied, especially in an exploration ship
But it does provide missions - however working out missions is way less faster than selling exploration data

Oh, well - still better than nothing, not really complaining

 

[FelineSaffron32]

Good evening!

For many years our faction suffered from uncontrollable side expansions into our borders from the Peregrina Aristocrats faction. For 5 years (!) we've been trying to reinforce our systems, and a lot of pilots came to our ecosystem and within game mechanics, leading a legal gaming lifestyle and not harassing other players, their groups and their interests. We managed to limit the influence of Peregrina Aristocrats to their original system, and also, we have repeatedly appealed to you, dear developers, with suggestions to freeze the influence of the faction Peregrina Aristocrats, so that this faction does not get into our borders from the spontaneous work of flying pilots to get permissions, and so that 5 years of our work is not a waste, but our proposals were not heeded.

As a result, not so long ago, we used legal gameplay BGS-features to kick Peregrina Aristocrats out of the HIP 18609 and asked you to provide an adequate solution to the problem, so it wouldn't hinder our development, but it would be convenient for other people as well. In the end, you did a pretty strange job and returned the Peregrina Aristocrats to HIP 18609, put them on a giant ship and now it is simply impossible to kick the Peregrina Aristocrats out of the system, BUT they CAN expand into our borders.

Now the work of the visiting permitees has been drastically intensified, as an insanely large crowd is pumping permits into Peregrina against the backdrop of the Thargoids coming into the area.

I sincerely ask you to technically limit the non-player faction Peregrina Aristocrats in the HIP 18609 system, so that players can get permits into Peregrina without disturbing our faction's interests and without rejecting our five-year (!) work. The current version interferes with gameplay of a large Russian-speaking group of players and negates years of work to exclude the Peregrina faction Aristocrats from our frontiers to limit their spontaneous expansions (as a result of constant attempts to get a permit by players) into our frontiers.

The current state of affairs establishes another dangerous precedent of one more "hand of God" action as well as the indifferent attitude toward the years of work of the game factions and independent pilots. We ask that you take our request seriously and prevent the current abuses of our achievements. We hope for your understanding.

With respect,
Anton Vernitskiy aka AntonyVern/Automatic system
Head of the Close Encounters Corps and the Coalition
of Allied Factions of the Russian-speaking segment

Dear CMDR. I do understand your reasons and support you complaint about this Deus ex machina move by the devs. I was one of the commanders seeking for this permit for months. I even tried get it by manipulate BGS at Arietis Sector EQ-Y c17 for PA in this favor. Of course I did not succeeded since it was only me against all CEC. But I also agree with CMDR Toucan76 when he said that you guys should take this problem into account inside the faction's bubble.

If I may suggest a solution, and inside the BGS rules, would be leaving Peregrina Aristocrats in HIP 18609 and live with this conflict that will be constantly happening, while putting a text in the faction page on Inara, asking the commanders not to fight the conflicts. I am sure that the vast majority of the commanders seeking the permit know the basics of BGS and will understand your appeal. Your squadron is a big one and I believe you can manage this side effect during your expansion plans.

o7

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

Just for the record, I was one of the ones highly involved in this whole affair. While my official squadron is not allied with your squadron (my unofficial one is very much allied) I tried literally everything from Peregrina Aristocrats missions that largely avoided altering CEC influence if at all possible to going through every single faction known to be in Peregrina per INARA. No faction was offering the permit. I went to FDev only out of sheer desperation because I believe this is ultimately deeply involved in the explanation of what really happened behind the scenes during the Cereberus Plague. Every effort was undertaken before FDev was contacted and even then I suggested that it might be the lockdown that was already happening to Peregrina Aristocrats in their home system. FDev dashed the hopes of a simpler solution (such as preventing any BGS state in a home system that would close permit access) when they revealed they had reason to believe this was a simple matter of the 2 systems at the time that Peregrina were in besides Peregrina itself were outside the necessary distance (20 LY) for the permit to be accessible. Beyond this I wasn't consulted and apparently nor was CEC by FDev in their decision to place the megaship permanently within the necessary range. I respect what you are doing but I do ask that whatever your squadron does with the change to respect that all Elite Dangerous players should have access to key systems in the larger lore whether it be just to experience the story more fully or for investigators of the mysteries of the game. I was already fully allied due to my work and have picked up the permit and departed the region without any further interference to your squadron's zone and area of influence. Ultimately, since the ship is permanent this may be best that can be done to respect CEC's ability to manage their affairs within their zone of influence while still allowing the rest of us access to this key system.

 

[AntonyVern]

Just for the record, I was one of the ones highly involved in this whole affair. While my official squadron is not allied with your squadron (my unofficial one is very much allied) I tried literally everything from Peregrina Aristocrats missions that largely avoided altering CEC influence if at all possible to going through every single faction known to be in Peregrina per INARA. No faction was offering the permit. I went to FDev only out of sheer desperation because I believe this is ultimately deeply involved in the explanation of what really happened behind the scenes during the Cereberus Plague. Every effort was undertaken before FDev was contacted and even then I suggested that it might be the lockdown that was already happening to Peregrina Aristocrats in their home system. FDev dashed the hopes of a simpler solution (such as preventing any BGS state in a home system that would close permit access) when they revealed they had reason to believe this was a simple matter of the 2 systems at the time that Peregrina were in besides Peregrina itself were outside the necessary distance (20 LY) for the permit to be accessible. Beyond this I wasn't consulted and apparently nor was CEC by FDev in their decision to place the megaship permanently within the necessary range. I respect what you are doing but I do ask that whatever your squadron does with the change to respect that all Elite Dangerous players should have access to key systems in the larger lore whether it be just to experience the story more fully or for investigators of the mysteries of the game. I was already fully allied due to my work and have picked up the permit and departed the region without any further interference to your squadron's zone and area of influence. Ultimately, since the ship is permanent this may be best that can be done to respect CEC's ability to manage their affairs within their zone of influence while still allowing the rest of us access to this key system.

We understand the situation and we understand that a solution was necessary. The problem is solely that the solution to the situation turned out to be extremely one-sided (although, everything could be solved by megaship not affecting BGS).

Yes, and, alas, willingly and unwillingly, many people began to call blatantly ruin our five years of work. We understand your appeal, but we have also seen really aggressive calls from people. We sincerely hope that the FD will listen and make adjustments that would solve the problem in a way that is convenient for everyone around - make this megaship neutral for BGS, not affecting it.

Our faction always adheres to the principles of zero primary aggression, you can communicate with us and find common ground. Now, of course, there will be spiteful zealots who only want to crap on us.

The only purpose of our appeal is to correct the current decision, the exclusion of the PA megaship from the BGS field. This will allow our faction to develop quietly, without disturbing anyone around and will not limit at all the possibility of getting a Permit to people.

 

[Screemonster]

Player minor factions were a mistake. Let people slap their name on something and they act like they're entitled to just stomp over everyone and cry foul if someone says no.

 

[Northpin]

Also don't think changing rules each time someone has some BGS issues is good. Especcially without informing all sides.

I get your point, but technically no rules were changed here.
And it's not about someone, it's about a lot and a lot of individual and anonymous and voiceless someones.
FD is placing Megaships in the game as needed to suit the story or, in this case, to help the large mass of anonymous commanders that want that permit.

Now, i hope CEC's plea will be met with a favorable outcome and PA in HIP 18609 will get locked one way or another.
In the mean time, i'm still working to get permit unlocked on my 3rd account, but while doing missions for PA in HIP 18609, i will also do some missions for CEC too to counter that


Edit:
And to put things into perspective, it's not FD ruining CEC's efforts.
It's actually the other way around.
FD worked to create a story around Peregrina and CEC ruined that by locking down PA and preventing the permit acquisition and blocking the story for everyone else.


All in all, I would really love to see BGS factions more considerate to the rest of the community, while they're supporting and expanding their factions

 

[Screemonster]

All in all, I would really love to see BGS factions more considerate to the rest of the community, while they're supporting and expanding their factions

CEC are way way way way out in the sticks on the edge of the bubble. There are a couple of PMFs like that, out in the low traffic areas where they don't have to deal with other players being around, and thus there's nobody about to show consideration to. Most of the time there isn't an issue because, as stated, there's nobody about for them to have an issue with.

Some of these factions get very upset when they finally expand into an area where they have to actually work with other people instead of just pushing unopposed expansions everywhere.

Seriously, CEC are present in over 60 systems and control over 40 of them, and they're pitching this much of a complaint over one system. God.

 

[AntonyVern]

Seriously, CEC are present in over 60 systems and control over 40 of them, and they're pitching this much of a complaint over one system. God.

You really didn't get the message, did you?

The problem with the PA faction is that a bunch of fly-in pilots come in and start mindlessly pumping the influence of this faction, which provokes multiple expansions (we're extremely close to this system, only 12-20 ly, its physically impossible to escape spontaneous damage to our assets), undercutting the influence in our systems and ruining our years of work. God be with them as a faction, the problem is that there are a bunch of people who are mindlessly working against us, pumping up the influence of that faction. It's a spontaneous abuse. This is what we propose to deal with, to cut off the PA and their megaship from the BGS field.

Seriously, people want to get a permit with no regard for the interests of others, is it really that one-sided? Geez.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Its the BGS. In the end disputes always end up ugly whatever is done. Peregrina has lore attached to it and FD don't want it shut down I expect.

The only thing you can do is deal with it, like all the other BGS groups have to.

 

[AntonyVern]

Its the BGS. In the end disputes always end up ugly whatever is done. Peregrina has lore attached to it and FD don't want it shut down I expect.

The only thing you can do is deal with it, like all the other BGS groups have to.

Geez. No one is suggesting that they be removed entirely or that they interfere with the receipt of permissions. It is enough to remove PA's influence on the BGS sphere so that all permissions recipients do not spontaneously spoil the game for us and our friends. It's an incredibly simple solution that will keep everyone happy with the result.

This is what we propose to deal with, to cut off the PA and their megaship from the BGS field.

 

[Screemonster]

You really didn't get the message, did you?

The problem with the PA faction is that a bunch of fly-in pilots come in and start mindlessly pumping the influence of this faction, which provokes multiple expansions (we're extremely close to this system, only 12-20 ly, its physically impossible to escape spontaneous damage to our assets), undercutting the influence in our systems and ruining our years of work. God be with them as a faction, the problem is that there are a bunch of people who are mindlessly working against us, pumping up the influence of that faction. It's a spontaneous abuse. This is what we propose to deal with, to cut off the PA and their megaship from the BGS field.

Seriously, people want to get a permit with no regard for the interests of others, is it really that one-sided? Geez.

... wow, a whole one system where people pump influence up and cause expansions?

However will a 200-strong BGS faction cope?

 

[AntonyVern]

... wow, a whole one system where people pump influence up and cause expansions?

However will a 200-strong BGS faction cope?

No, you still don't get the point, too bad.

It's only one system now, a little earlier PAs were in almost all of our systems, and flying in pilots were ting all over the place. With great difficulty we have brought PAs within the boundaries of only one system, in the hope that it will end here and we will not be spontaneously crapped on.

But no, now the situation will be back to anarchic order, thanks to a horde of Peregrina system clearance pumpers driving PAs into our borders.

Ask yourself the question, would you want to have a migraine, have your friends constantly plowing like hell, if you can solve the problem in a way that is convenient for ALL?

Why should the interests of permittees be more important than the interests of exactly the same players, but working in a group? I believe this is nonsense and the solution is simple: cut off the megaship PA from the BGS sphere.

 

[Northpin]

the problem is that there are a bunch of people who are mindlessly working against us, pumping up the influence of that faction. It's a spontaneous abuse.

ouch

But as i said, they are not working against you, they might not even know you exist there, they simply work to get permit. Most people know nothing about BGS.
You on the other hand, you are doing a voluntary and determined effort to block them from achieving permit.

As i said, technically you started to work against FD established lore around Peregrina, by blocking PA and basically making that piece of lore inaccessible to players

 

[Shnyrik]

The problem, to be completely honest, is that some people want to "win" so much, that they agree that "winning" with the help of game-breaking cheat is completely okay. Double standards, that's what it seems to be called.

 

[AntonyVern]

ouch

But as i said, they are not working against you, they might not even know you exist there, they simply work to get permit. Most people know nothing about BGS.
You on the other hand, you are doing a voluntary and determined effort to block them from achieving permit.

As i said, technically you started to work against FD established lore around Peregrina, by blocking PA and basically making that piece of lore inaccessible to players

However, before that there was a whole mountain of attempts to offer a sane solution, and everyone who flew in was notified in the chat that if they swing clearance in Peregrina let them then restore our assets as well, that's fair. All were ignored. That's why the current appeal is written, where a specific solution is given that can satisfy everyone. Its fair, its tolerant.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Geez. No one is suggesting that they be removed entirely or that they interfere with the receipt of permissions. It is enough to remove PA's influence on the BGS sphere so that all permissions recipients do not spontaneously spoil the game for us and our friends. It's an incredibly simple solution that will keep everyone happy with the result.

This is what we propose to deal with, to cut off the PA and their megaship from the BGS field.

Peregrina is an ED lore system tied possibly to the Thargoids, its not going to be sealed off. You will have to deal with it, like everyone else who has a BGS group has to deal with rampant factions. Do you see other groups who have lore based permit systems whining? No.

When I was with Powerplay the Utopia group fought continuously (over a year IIRC) to suppress The Brotherhood of Terra Mater as it screwed up the triggers for that area- we fought using the BGS against PMF groups and randos wanting the permit (and puffing up TBTM). At no point, even when we had pushed them back and they popped out and caused a whole heap of annoyance did anyone involved say "FD, this is not fair we pushed them back".

 

[AntonyVern]

Peregrina is an ED lore system tied possibly to the Thargoids, its not going to be sealed off. You will have to deal with it, like everyone else who has a BGS group has to deal with rampant factions. Do you see other groups who have lore based permit systems whining? No.

When I was with Powerplay the Utopia group fought continuously (over a year IIRC) to suppress The Brotherhood of Terra Mater as it screwed up the triggers for that area- we fought using the BGS against PMF groups and randos wanting the permit (and puffing up TBTM). At no point, even when we had pushed them back and they popped out and caused a whole heap of annoyance did anyone involved say "FD, this is not fair we pushed them back".

Again. No one needs to completely lock up PAs, preventing people from getting permits. It is enough to eliminate the influence of PAs on the BGS environment, so that there are no losers and everyone is happy. That's why the current appeal was written, giving a concrete solution that can satisfy everyone.

 

[Screemonster]

No, you still don't get the point, too bad.

It's only one system now, a little earlier PAs were in almost all of our systems, and flying in pilots were ting all over the place. With great difficulty we have brought PAs within the boundaries of only one system, in the hope that it will end here and we will not be spontaneously crapped on.

But no, now the situation will be back to anarchic order, thanks to a horde of Peregrina system clearance pumpers driving PAs into our borders.

Ask yourself the question, would you want to have a migraine, have your friends constantly plowing like hell, if you can solve the problem in a way that is convenient for ALL?

Why should the interests of permittees be more important than the interests of exactly the same players, but working in a group? I believe this is nonsense and the solution is simple: cut off the megaship PA from the BGS sphere.

What's happened to you is exactly what's happened before when people tried to cut off access to a permit. You're not special, and neither are your problems.

I don't see SIMBAD complaining about the Jotun permit messing up the BGS in their territory, they just work around it and deal with it. Same with the many PMFs that have a presence near Ts'ao Tach where Silver Legal Group have people pumping them up. Or, for that matter, the many many systems in and around the alliance that have permit locks. I don't hear the hutton truckers complaining about the Sirius corporation getting pumped up by people getting that permit either, and that permit is one that's needed in order to gain access to grade 5 thrusters if you don't want to truck all the way out to Colonia.

So... no.
I don't think it's unreasonable that a BGS group should have to deal with the passive effects of traffic in their systems, nor do I think it's reasonable for them to demand the entire rest of the playerbase be inconvienienced for the sake of them being able to write their name on their little corner of the sandbox.

We're not playing in your universe. You're playing in ours.