then what does postal 2 say about societies morals?
On cetaceans
- Thread starter trebthegreat
- Start date
The entire PZ lion is a joke from the subspecies to the model. Koalas are kept in prestigeous San Diego zoo if i recall correctly. Polar bear i'm not sure what you mean. While the game is for fun it is also a simulator that strives to be realistic. Adding more animals that realistically don't do well is a bad call in my opinion
Not sure I think it's worth what the captive individuals go through
It's realistic sure but not from the point of welfare.
Sure you can. But the game gives space and tools to house them to full welfare. It's not that simple with cetaceans
As I said, if the current SeaWorld CEO wouldn't be such a stupid Idiot, the Orcas there could have such a nice Tank. Maybe it was decided against it because of the Orca Breeding Ban in the US but they could've still used it for another Species afterwards
Really hope, someone who really cares about the Animals will become the next CEO
Do you know all the reasons it was decided against? I assume theres more to it than being a stupid idiotAs I said, if the current SeaWorld CEO wouldn't be such a stupid Idiot, the Orcas there could have such a nice Tank. Maybe it was decided against it because of the Orca Breeding Ban in the US but they could've still used it for another Species afterwards
Really hope, someone who really cares about the Animals will become the next CEO
I'd love to be able to build something like the Indianapolis Zoo's Dolphin Dome in game...same with the dolphins and belugas that the Shedd Aquarium has
You also have the general thing with a lot of places, the new boss doesn't want people working on the prior boss' projects because they aren't going to be as much of a thing for his own reputation...
I think that the breeding ban was a major thing with it. While they have their Orcas that make some money, you're talking about a LOT of time and money being put into it when they're losing a way to keep up animal numbers if there are any losses. Same reason why the Cincinnati Zoo didn't go ahead with their planned upgrade for the walrus exhibit that became a sea lion one...when the Sea Lion died, they tore it down and built a penguin exhibit. They didn't have a confirmed replacement for the exhibit and their prior sea lion, apparently was not that social to other sea lions beforehand.
You also have the general thing with a lot of places, the new boss doesn't want people working on the prior boss' projects because they aren't going to be as much of a thing for his own reputation...
It's a While since I've discussed it with someone else, so I don't remember every Detail but even if there are other Reasons and you already got the financial Support to build that awesome Tank, why just s*** on it completely and use it for those stupid Rides instead (for which probably no one is visiting SeaWorld) even though it could've at least been used for another Animal related Project?
With both Sea World and Busch Gardens, there are a good chunk of people who care more for the rides than the animals...it may be more with the Busch Gardens than with Sea World, but both are owned by the same people...
I've only been to a SeaWorld once and that was a LONG time ago at the defunct Ohio location in the late 80's or early 90's. I've been to the Williamsburg Busch Gardens a few times, but the SeaWorld locations are further away from where I live
Not true I’m afraid. They can be found in zoos in Germany, Belgium, France, Spain, Portugal, England, Scotland, Austria, Switzerland, Israel, Taiwan/ROC, Japan, PR China, USA and perhaps more.
It's one thing to have enough money to build a larger tank, it's another thing to pay for its upkeep. With a breeding ban and no future for orcas in zoos, why would they pay a lot of money for a brand new tank and for the upkeep of said tank when it's gonna be financially unprofitable in the long run?
House things like dolphins and belugas in more a more spacious exhibit
It wasn't written that it's completely impossible but it's probably very expensive to get the Food
Of course the Water and Filtration alone would probably already cost a Fortune but they have other Animals too which could live there after the Orcas are gone. It's probably also good Publicity for the Park when they provide way more Space for their Animals which could probably increase Guest Numbers because People will like SeaWorld more after they do something like this
“Near impossible” which clearly isn’t true given the number of zoos with koalas.
Wow, I thought Germany has only one Zoo that keeps Koalas but I've just looked it up on Zootierliste.de and there are way more than I've expected but I assume they are way more common in Places like the US due to the warmer Climate in some States which probably makes it easier to farm Eucalyptus
Okay. Are there any examples of great tanks, existing? By great i mean, do the animals thrive?
I'm a veteran of previous Cetacean Wars and I won't add anything else about if they should be in the game, but I find baseless to say that species that have been reproducing in captivity for decades and outliving their conspecifics in the wild "don't do well" or "don't thrive".
These topics come and go in the forum and at the end is the typical anti-zoo points but switching "cages" for "tanks".
Look at the Indianapolis Dolphin Dome for one for Bottlenoses.
The Shedd Aquarium has a great beluga and pacific white sided dolphins
Both have been doing well there for decades
Orcas are rather rare because of their size and basic space requirements, that's part of the reason why they weren't that common in captivity in the first place. You have a van sized carnivore there, even with the somewhat undersized tanks with sea world, they're expensive and large so most places don't want to take them in. SeaWorld's tanks are also one where they're a casualty of time, having been best practices at the time they were constructed, and a lot of the info on modern requirements would not have come if not for those tanks since they were some of the few that actually displayed them in the first place.
Yeah, the Orca breeding ban also makes me think of the mess that the AZA is creating with White Lions and Tigers now...the Cincinnati Zoo's white lion enclosure was depressing the last time I visited, when they also had their new and massive africa section with new lions.
Nope, it’s been several days and no one has said either that it would “encourage IRL captivity” or that it would “encourage people to kidnap baby orcas and dolphins from the wild.”
Can I please get some Information about this?
Didn't hear any News regarding white Lions and Tigers
Well, I cant answer for everyone, of course, but as someone who really wants/needs cetaceans (and is not really intrested in fish) I can at least give you some of my reasons:
- I really love cetaceans, especially orcas.
- For many years I was hoping for a new zoo game with good graphics, where I can finally have good looking animals and yes, especially good looking orcas/dolphins in general.
- I would really love to breed generations of orcas, that I can trace back to the first I had, kind of like having an "orca-dynasty", you know?
- PZ actually gave me this idea - being able to breed albino or leucistic orcas would be awesome^^
- PZ is my favourite game which I already played for thousands of hours since release and so yes, I would love to have my favourite animals in my favourite game
- For me cetaceans do belong in zoo games
- Oh and actually I would also really like to have manatees and/or dugongs, just a bist less than cetaceans^^
- Honestly I could only see fish working as exhibit animals, while I am sure cetaceans/manatees could be working equal to habitat animals.
Well, for me there would be nothing weird about it, because for me cetaceans are "normal" animals, which can be in "regular zoos" And thats kind of how zoos do keep them
Here an old map of Duisburg, when they still had Belugas and the River dolphins
As you can see, the Belugas and dolphins were more or less placed "randomly" in the zoo. Next to tigers and the "Chinese garden" The River dolphins were in the old aquarium first, but years later Duisburg built the "Rio Negro hall", where the 2 were moved and displayed along to other Amazonian/South American animals (like the giant otter).
https://zoo-duisburg.de/lageplan (here is a link to the more or less actual plan, the River dolphin is still shown on the map, though. Without the belugas you could even say the bottlenose dolphins look now even more "random" on the map.
Nürnberg has their dolphins together with sea lions (to some degree, at least) and next to the manatee house. As far as I know they share the same underwater viewing area, meaning you can look at the dolphins from one side and then turn around to see the manatees. As you can see most of their neighbours do look kinda random, even though, yes there is an aquarium near by.
Now Loro Parque does have many fully aquatic animals, but they also didnt place them all in the same area. The dolphins and orcas are next to each other, however the tigers are also their neighbours.
My last example is from the Brookfield zoo.
The dolphins there are placed next to sea lions and/or seals and also close to the big cats. (there must be something about placing dolphins close to tigers)
As you can see, the Belugas and dolphins were more or less placed "randomly" in the zoo. Next to tigers and the "Chinese garden" The River dolphins were in the old aquarium first, but years later Duisburg built the "Rio Negro hall", where the 2 were moved and displayed along to other Amazonian/South American animals (like the giant otter).
https://zoo-duisburg.de/lageplan (here is a link to the more or less actual plan, the River dolphin is still shown on the map, though. Without the belugas you could even say the bottlenose dolphins look now even more "random" on the map.
Nürnberg has their dolphins together with sea lions (to some degree, at least) and next to the manatee house. As far as I know they share the same underwater viewing area, meaning you can look at the dolphins from one side and then turn around to see the manatees. As you can see most of their neighbours do look kinda random, even though, yes there is an aquarium near by.
Now Loro Parque does have many fully aquatic animals, but they also didnt place them all in the same area. The dolphins and orcas are next to each other, however the tigers are also their neighbours.
My last example is from the Brookfield zoo.
The dolphins there are placed next to sea lions and/or seals and also close to the big cats. (there must be something about placing dolphins close to tigers
)So if we got for example the orca, bottlenose dolphin, Beluga, manatee and Amazon River dolphin, players who want to make specialized areas could place the first 4, maybe together with the seal, sea lions and penguins. This would make a nice aquatic area
And the River dolphin would do very good in a South American area. In that regard I see no problems And if players just want to open a zoo with only cetaceans, where would the problem be? Its their game after all and everyone plays a bit differnt. And this is a good thing!And if Frontier made some small fish as exhibits, this would also be a nice addition^^
You know, Planet Aquarium is a nice idea, but the problem with it is, it dosent exits. Its true there is no guarantee we will ever get cetaceans or any other fully aquatic animal for PZ, but the chances are alot higher than waiting for a game thats so far just a fan idea, with nothing to suggest it will ever get produced at all.
Thats why I put all my hope for cetaceans in PZ
I believed diving was possible when many (if not most) players here were doubting it, so I hope I will be right with cetaceans aswell
Anyways, I just saw the "soul DLC" topic and I will definitive head there next^^
Dolphins are my favorite fish and I want them in game