Drew Wagar's Thoughts

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Northpin

Northpin
Straker said:
we must remember that this is a live-service game and not a single-player game and as such it should provide a constant development path with regards to features, content and narrative
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Well, you know this is not a subscription based game. It's a pay once, play for thousands and thousands of hours

Still, it is updated with content, features and narratives.

I'm actually quite amazed at the amount we get - without paying subscriptions.
I'm only playing since end of 2018 and we got:
  • 4x interstellar initiatives in 2019 (all adding content and narrative and new features)
  • Carriers Update in 2020 - again, quite huge impact in the game
  • and from the Autumn of 2020, we got a new multi-layered narrative (a story arc that supposedly will stretch for 2 years) that got in the game, more often than not, new content, new features and it keeps expanding...
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
I think Drew is just sad all the work that went into ED at the start re lore, story etc wound up going in the bin, and ED itself becoming directionless for so long.

EDs biggest problem was FD itself not knowing or understanding what it wanted ED to be early on and trying lots of different approaches that got quickly canned or stopped.

But you can't fault FD for continual content- aside from the er....fallow...years they've always had something going on- just not always joined up :D
 

LeoBartlet

LeoBartlet
Rubbernuke said:
I think Drew is just sad all the work that went into ED at the start re lore, story etc wound up going in the bin, and ED itself becoming directionless for so long.
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Not only that but when they did restart their narrative he wasn't part of it.

SourGrapes.png
 

Juniper

Juniper
You can attack the messenger all you like, but the points Drew has made (also in his latest video) are salient.

The game has gone in an entirely different direction to what 'Elite' always was - and what we backed - and since it's Frontier's property, that is their right.

Don't want to play it though. Just has no interest any more. As an old fogey, I don't like FPS games, much less shallow ones like this that look like they were written in 2010. The proliferation of these kinds of crap games at that time is precisely what made the concept of E: D so compelling in the early days... because it very definitely wasn't that. Great if you like that sort of shoot-people-in-the-face gameplay, but I feel you were always very well catered for in the gaming market already, no?

It's very sad.

9 years to explore a galaxy isn't all that long when you think about it. Then add in all the time playing FE2, FFE, Oolite and the original Elite, and you're into multiple decades of time easily. It's a game that really ought to have near infinite replayability.

By all means tell me I'm wrong, if it makes you feel better about yourself. 🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️
 
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Axacuatl

Axacuatl
It's a pity because he was one of those who provided a breath of actual content, lore, into the game. Exactly the ingredient FDev has been adamant to ignore as they clearly consider the community to be and remain in charge of it, and Drew provided some of this.

While I clearly understand his reasoning, and share it to some degree, I must admit that I have always played ED in waves, a shorter intense period of playing it followed by a lengthy break, roughly in a 1-2 months to 6 months ratio. And I will continue to play EDH in this vein. EDO hasn't really captured me, I literally only started up the alpha once and then decided to check EDO out after release, did so, and yet again parked the game for... well, ever since. Playing in VR didn't help EDO, of course. But the broken planetary textures issues & performance being crap in EDO simply makes it no fun to play, even if I stick to the EDH type of game play.

The FPS addition would also have been somewhere to the end of my wish list, save if it were implemented around space combat & ship interiors & exteriors, e.g. boarding a ship, or repairing it. Or modding it manually for shorter term effects. Something more connected to the core game play. In the long run the FPS part is great, if the world would be a bit more intruiging, more lively. But I still have to really give it a proper try (though not in VR, which is a bummer) to see if it is an enrichment as it stands today. Some of the missions should be structure din a way combining the two - (highly rewarded!) assassination missions could start off with a space ship chase, then end on a planet with a SRV chase and end up in a pirate settlement shoot-out. Are there any such missions yet ? Would seem bloody simple to script, tbh.

Back to Drew's departure (for now) - it is a shame, because we will lose content, and it is coming at a point in time where one is under the impression that the game is struggling. It would be a tragedy if this lead to more people leaving the game, as I fear the day when FDev switch off the servers. I just hope somehow there will be someone picking it up and providing some kind of a subscription service then to continue to fly a couple of loops in EDH as I still just love the mechanics of the game and having only spent some 600 h am still not at the point to be completely saturated, and - given my wave approach - probably won't be anytime soon.
 

xzanfr

xzanfr
I like @drew
I've enjoyed his books since oolite, kickstarted his first E : D book, bought the second and have a great deal of respect for all of his hard work in trying to inject some life in to the game.

I also agree with many of his points and feel that the way FD have handled the lore has been really poor, however I really wish he'd just go gracefully if he's had enough.

Leaving videos, tours, social media announcements etc just come across as self indulgent and a bit beneath the man I thought he was.

I wish him good luck with his enjoyment of NMS & his writing projects.
 

LeoBartlet

LeoBartlet
Juniper said:
You can attack the messenger all you like, but the points Drew has made (also in his latest video) are salient.

The game has gone in an entirely different direction to what 'Elite' always was - and what we backed - and since it's Frontier's property, that is their right.

Don't want to play it though. Just has no interest any more. As an old fogey, I don't like FPS games, much less shallow ones like this that look like they were written in 2010. The proliferation of these kinds of crap games at that time is precisely what made the concept of E: D so compelling in the early days... because it very definitely wasn't that. Great if you like that sort of shoot-people-in-the-face gameplay, but I feel you were always very well catered for in the gaming market already, no?

It's very sad.

9 years to explore a galaxy isn't all that long when you think about it. Then add in all the time playing FE2, FFE, Oolite and the original Elite, and you're into multiple decades of time easily. It's a game that really ought to have near infinite replayability.

By all means tell me I'm wrong, if it makes you feel better about yourself. 🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️
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Can we expect a 53 minute goodbye video from you?
 

Rat Catcher

Rat Catcher
Juniper said:
By all means tell me I'm wrong
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As another 'old fogey' I'd not dream of telling you whatever your opinion is, is wrong....
I'm lucky, I've been playing only 4.5 years, so had no 'expectations' what the game might or should be, just bought another version of the game I played in 1984 (at 30 years old) and it has been added to several times since purchase, without costing me another penny! EDO is the only 'paid' content since I started to play, it has issues, but I enjoy the addition of on-foot activities, and chuckle pretty much constantly when playing the ground-based combat content.

Both of us confess to being 'old', yet enjoy radically different activities, odd, isn't it?

Drew feels the game doesn't meet his own preferences, pretty much the same as yourself, and spent nearly an hour of livestream discussing why, which I find odd, but maybe because when I get tired of playing a game I just stop, not feeling the urge to tell the whole world about my woes with it.

He worked with the 'team' for some time, now he doesn't, Frontier are moving in a direction they choose - one which some dislike - and all any one of us can do is to play the game or not - possibly minor 'fixes' will happen if something is abysmal (think sampler tool mini-game) but they will pretty much carry on as they intend.
 

Greybeard Seawolf

Greybeard Seawolf
I have to say I am really enjoying EDO, flaws and all. I fully intend to stick around and do what I can to help fix and improve the game. Of course there is a lot still wrong with it and it desperately needs new missions and content both for on foot and in the base game. Odyssey needs to be tied more firmly into the base game with chained missions involving both ship and of foot action. While I enjoy the on foot combat particularly the stealth side of game play I do think there needs to be more mission types that are not combat related. I'd love to see base building and on foot mining sometime in the future. Obviously I'd also like to see ship interiors and associated gameplay but believe a gradual introduction starting with cockpits to be a more realistic approach given the complexities of implementation and developing gameplay for the interiors of so many ships. It is sad to see Drew moving on, I enjoyed his content and it is worrying to see the departure of another creator as it is with Dr Kay's decision to leave Frontier. I just hope U8 and the subsequent updates can address the major issues people are experiencing and stem the haemorrhage of players and content creators
 

Deleted member 182079

D
Rat Catcher said:
Drew feels the game doesn't meet his own preferences, pretty much the same as yourself, and spent nearly an hour of livestream discussing why, which I find odd, but maybe because when I get tired of playing a game I just stop, not feeling the urge to tell the whole world about my woes with it.

He worked with the 'team' for some time, now he doesn't, Frontier are moving in a direction they choose - one which some dislike - and all any one of us can do is to play the game or not - possibly minor 'fixes' will happen if something is abysmal (think sampler tool mini-game) but they will pretty much carry on as they intend.
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To be fair, I find it hard myself to wane myself off Elite despite not being very happy with its direction nor its current technical state, and that is because I've been playing it for so long and so intensely that makes it different to any other game I played (where I would have no qualms about stopping without the need to waffle about it online).

Given the time and effort Drew put into it, much more so than I would've ever done, I very well understand that it's not just a case of 'switch off and done' as I reckon there's still an emotional connection that takes some time to sever properly.

And then there's always that nagging feeling - should I stay and wait in the hope that things improve, what if I miss something while I'm gone? As that is really something that could happen in Elite (and has indeed happened to me in the past) unlike a single player game like CP2077 or X4 where the game world doesn't move on while you play something else. FOMO ultimately.
 
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Alien

Alien
The best period this forum ever had was when just 12 of us were looking in from time to time.

It'll be so nice to return to that.

I give about as much of a damn about anyone leaving the community, as they might do about whatever I think.
This can be summend up as "None at all".
 

Rat Catcher

Rat Catcher
ObiW said:
Given the time and effort Drew put into it, much more so than I would've ever done, I very well understand that it's not just a case of 'switch off and done' as I reckon there's still an emotional connection that takes some time to sever properly.
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I think that point is very valid, 9 years is a good portion of one's life to be involved in a game, and in being part of a team that was setting the scene for the future of the game - so just 'walking away' might be tough!

In truth none of us on the outside of Frontier knows exactly where the game is going, so leaving today because "I don't like where the game is" could be sensible, or not if changes are introduced to negate even a few dislikes. Frontier are not particularly good at disclosing what tomorrow might bring, are they?

ED has always been a "Curate's Egg" for me, I consume the bits I like, can ignore the remainder, pretty much, as there is no need to be doing everything available, all of the time.
 
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