Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Some people seem happy with 3.15

robertsspaceindustries.com

3.15: Very impressive, HUGE step towards the game CIG/CR promised us - Star Citizen Spectrum

This is without a doubt the best patch I've played since 2.6 when I started actively testing. Just finished a 5 hours session with 0 (zero!) 30Ks so I didn't even have to rely on the heartbeat...
robertsspaceindustries.com robertsspaceindustries.com

Others are not so impressed

Well the numbers speak for themselves, EU servers are almost empty now on a weekend(03:30). Before patch every server was full even at night on weekdays.
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And some can't help but bring up refunds...

The haters are already losing their members on Reddit.
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r/starcitizen_refunds Subreddit Stats (Star Citizen Refunds)

Statistics for every subreddit.
subredditstats.com subredditstats.com

Of course, what they say doesn't match reality. Refunds is up 3500 members since the same time last year. 2020 and 2021 has seen a big increase in the number of subscribers which started around March 2020.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Praise for the last ISC

robertsspaceindustries.com

The last ISC was amazing, it's the best example of CIG understanding the community! This one slide put my all my concerns to rest. - Star Citizen Spectrum

No mention of pursuing "realism" for the game design, no mention of unnecessary customizability to make any ship right for any job. This slide was like CIG was reading my mind. It really was 10/10...
robertsspaceindustries.com robertsspaceindustries.com

Top comment

Yeah, talk is cheap and I've heard cheap marketing hype for almost a decade. I don't care what they WANT to do, the only thing that matters is what they actually DO.
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If only more backers had this attitude. Stop praising CIG for saying what they want to do. Praise them for doing it.

Nice to hear they have active SC players only in this focus group.
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Also known as, how to create an echo chamber.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
And wow, a PvPer who actually understands what's what.

You know, I'm a ship-to-ship PvP guy, my guild is a PvP guild. Most of my PvP comments here over the years have focused on the Flight Model and cautioning over-zealous PvP players to limit the factioning between PvE and PvP players. I do that, because the writing is on the wall, and has been for years; if PvA alienates enough PvE players, we'll get just what you are asking for.

I've seen it happen time and again. When push-comes-to-shove, game developers will change the game, will split the community, to prevent a loss of paying players. E:D and New World are just the latest examples.

I hope it doesn't happen, but history is not on my side. If it does happen, it won't be the fault of PvE players who complain about PvP. It will be the fault of PvP players who intentionally generate those PvE player complaints. We KNOW PvE players don't want to fight us. We KNOW what happens when it becomes a problem for the game. And WE, as in pirates, KNOW we NEED PvE players for our game loop, but they don't need us for theirs. Its so frustrating to watch this crap happen in slow motion, once again.

I sympathize with your concerns, but don't know what to do about it. Good luck to both of us.
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Surefoot

S
Mole HD said:
On the subject of transient wealth...I'm down to less than 500 aUEC in 3.15 thanks to a spending spree on ship bits followed by an inglorious death after foolishly having stuck my remaining coin into cargo then crashing on lift-off.

Rule #1, don't alt+tab to type in Discord when flying close to the ground :D
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Irresponsible piloting aside, is cargo running fixed yet ?
 

LittleAnt

L
Viajero said:
The answer is actually quite simple, Rockstar gets to decide about whatever resources they need to do RDR2 and to deliver it to the quality they aim because they can do it. They have the competency and track record, and have delivered it. They are also using their own money and and bear any risk themselves. And they seem to have put all those devs to good use.
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The answer is also simple for CIG : CIG gets to decide about whatever resources they need to do SQ42/SC and to deliver it to the quality they aim because they think (and I think also) they can do it.
They are just trying to do since a decade what Rockstar has gradually and iteratively done in 20 years, CDPR in 26 years and Bethesda in 30 years. It's hard but doable when you have the funding and the will (CIG have both). And even if SC fail to add a good server/netcode, what we see of SC (when the server doesn't hinder the AI) applied to a single player game like SQ42 (without server/netcode) can already give us a game of the same quality than what we have with the actual Cyberpunk 2077.

And CIG don't have other ressources than what the backer give them. For sure they use backers money, they have no other choice because nobody in the industry would have funded a project with such ambitions. I know it and you know it. You were waiting for FDEV to do such a game on their personnal funding but since EDO, everyone know that even FDEV will not do it. We can have tiny hopes with Bethesda that their ships will be able to fly/dogfight like in SC/ED but I have a bad feeling about this...

As I said long ago in this forum. You can say whatever you want about CIG but, for now, their are the only one studio to try to do a game with such a scope. And for what I see of SC now, I have strong confidence in CIG for SQ42.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
LittleAnt said:
The answer is also simple for CIG : CIG gets to decide about whatever resources they need to do SQ42/SC and to deliver it to the quality they aim because they think (and I think also) they can do it.
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Well, as opposed to Rockstar deliveries, 10+ years of SC alpha involving massive delays, all kinds of technical issues and management issues strongly suggest they actually can not do it. At least not anywhere close to what has been sold and cashed in already.

Comparing CIG potentially thousands of devs with Rockstar´s does not make much sense at all precisely because Rockstar has a very solid track record of knowing what they are doing with those resources unlike CIG. They are also risking their own funds in the process which leads to a better management and control of the whole project.

On the other hand CIG has absolutely zero track record, and no products delivered as it is stuck on a 10+ year alpha with critical technical and management limitations. Growing the dev resource base after that track record over potentially thousands of devs is just a reckless waste of backers money.

It is also perfectly ok for you to ignore that "track record" and decide to throw your money in such a dumpster fire. Or even support that others throw their hard earn money in such a dumpster fire.
 
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Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
LittleAnt said:
The answer is also simple for CIG : CIG gets to decide about whatever resources they need to do SQ42/SC and to deliver it to the quality they aim because they think (and I think also) they can do it.
They are just trying to do since a decade what Rockstar has gradually and iteratively done in 20 years, CDPR in 26 years and Bethesda in 30 years. It's hard but doable when you have the funding and the will (CIG have both). And even if SC fail to add a good server/netcode, what we see of SC (when the server doesn't hinder the AI) applied to a single player game like SQ42 (without server/netcode) can already give us a game of the same quality than what we have with the actual Cyberpunk 2077.

And CIG don't have other ressources than what the backer give them. For sure they use backers money, they have no other choice because nobody in the industry would have funded a project with such ambitions. I know it and you know it. You were waiting for FDEV to do such a game on their personnal funding but since EDO, everyone know that even FDEV will not do it. We can have tiny hopes with Bethesda that their ships will be able to fly/dogfight like in SC/ED but I have a bad feeling about this...

As I said long ago in this forum. You can say whatever you want about CIG but, for now, their are the only one studio to try to do a game with such a scope. And for what I see of SC now, I have strong confidence in CIG for SQ42.
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The difference is, those companies did it on their dime. Their risk. Until they released, they could have said it would be reading in 2-3 years, and if they failed, that's their problem. CIG have shifted all risk to the backers, so when they said 2-3 years it was up to the backers to act like publishers and hold them accountable for any misleading statements. Backers time and again failed to hold CIG accountable for what they did and didn't do, instead giving them more and more money. They cheered him on.

This is perfect for Chris, who is completely and utterly incompetent at managing scope, budget, and expectations. He is the worst kind of project manager. But somehow, you, and others think they can do it. Which absoloutely flies in the face of what we see with the project, its history, and CR's track record at producing games.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
LittleAnt said:
Kate has nailed how to show us the new clouds
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Erm... presses record in whatever program she uses and flies and walks around? Yes... erm... nailed it.

Anyway, isn't it Will who does the recording?

Like with Burr and Rheeny, as i understand, Rheeny does most of the recording while Burr does the flying.
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
Surefoot said:
Irresponsible piloting aside, is cargo running fixed yet ?
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Depends if your ship blows away apparently ;)

Although this grumpy guy seems to be having a bad time:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/qsn6e1/_/hkf8wiv
Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/qsn6e1/one_of_this_patchs_greatest_features_is_cynics/hkf8wiv/


On the plus side, fidels are at maximum :)

clips.twitch.tv

Twitch

Twitch is the world's leading video platform and community for gamers.
clips.twitch.tv clips.twitch.tv
 

Factabulous

Factabulous
Viajero said:
Comparing CIG potentially thousands of devs with Rockstar´s does not make much sense at all precisely because Rockstar has a very solid track record of knowing what they are doing with those resources
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The timing of this comment is quite bad given the state of the latest GTA remaster

www.rockpapershotgun.com

You can't buy GTA's remastered trilogy for PC right now

GTA's remaster trilogy is not available on PC right now, and it's not clear whether it's technical trouble or because the game's just a mess.
www.rockpapershotgun.com www.rockpapershotgun.com

(Though this does highlight the risks of switching engine - even if you do have a working game. Something CiG might want to think about :) )
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
Factabulous said:
The timing of this comment is quite bad given the state of the latest GTA remaster

www.rockpapershotgun.com

You can't buy GTA's remastered trilogy for PC right now

GTA's remaster trilogy is not available on PC right now, and it's not clear whether it's technical trouble or because the game's just a mess.
www.rockpapershotgun.com www.rockpapershotgun.com

(Though this does highlight the risks of switching engine - even if you do have a working game. Something CiG might want to think about :) )
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Well, that is the thing with delivery, some are good, some are not so good. Even the best of companies launch some shoddy products from time to time. But in all cases the funds risked are theirs, which tends to lead to better controls and planning than if the funds are not yours to start with and you have zero risk on the investment. On the whole I´d say Rockstar track record is not too bad at all.

CIG on the other hand is not even there yet and has zero delivery track record after 10+ years stuck in a never ending alpha while still having the nerve to keep asking for money.
 
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Cotic

Cotic
LittleAnt said:
The answer is also simple for CIG : CIG gets to decide about whatever resources they need to do SQ42/SC and to deliver it to the quality they aim because they think (and I think also) they can do it.
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I think they can do it? They said they could do eveything for $100 million and now they have spent $500 million and are nowhere near to doing it.

LittleAnt said:
And CIG don't have other ressources than what the backer give them. For sure they use backers money, they have no other choice because nobody in the industry would have funded a project with such ambitions. I know it and you know it.
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Perhaps, just perhaps it's because people who do actually understand game development went "pffft you want to do what on how much money?"

It's easy to be amazingly ambitious when it's not your money!
 
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