To Solo Play Players: If You Could Disable PVP, Would You Play in Open Play Mode Instead?

[Florenus]

Minority or simply the most silent opinion? I remember years ago when ObsidianAnt tried to put a poll on one of his posts. Thousands of votes and the "all modes are equals" was the lower of the three alternatives.

Even if that is true, since when this forum is representative of all players?
Lots of players just play the game and don't need the drama of arguing about stupid things on some forum. Lots of others don't even speak english.

Whatever you think would be good for the game or what would increase it's popularity, doesn't mean that's true (not to mention if it would be doable). And even if Open only would mean gaining some players, it would probably mean loosing many others. I play this game exactly because it's not your classic MMO, since it must be MMO.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Minority or simply the most silent opinion? I remember years ago when ObsidianAnt tried to put a poll on one of his posts. Thousands of votes and the "all modes are equals" was the lower of the three alternatives.

Yet even when Sandro, in what seems to have been his last communication with the player-base, indicated that the majority of players play in Open he went on to say: "that shouldn't be taken though as a 'so we're gonna do open only power play' that is absolutely the furthest from our minds".

 

[Bard Voronwe]

Even if that is true, since when this forum is representative of all players?
Lots of players just play the game and don't need the drama of arguing about stupid things on some forum. Lots of others don't even speak english.

Whatever you think would be good for the game or what would increase it's popularity, doesn't mean that's true (not to mention if it would be doable). And even if Open only would mean gaining some players, it would probably mean loosing many others. I play this game exactly because it's not your classic MMO, since it must be MMO.

And again: nobody want to force people to play open. THat's the reason why I believe (even if I admit I don't think FDev will ever do anything similar) that the ideal scenario would be to have two different galaxies, where people with different gamestyles could find their dimension without the obvious absurdities that this forceful cohabitation brings for both Open Players and PG/Solo Players.

Honestly: why should I be interested in playing with you if you don't want to play in Open? And that's the same for you. It's being forced to the same Galaxy that creates the current issues: people "forced" to PvP in Open on one side, and people forced to deal with invisible opponents on the other side.

It would be a win-win situation for both sides. We don't cross each other anyway so...

Yet even when Sandro, in what seems to have been his last communication with the player-base, indicated that the majority of players play in Open he went on to say: "that shouldn't be taken though as a 'so we're gonna do open only power play' that is absolutely the furthest from our minds".

That was mostly because some people went on full drama mode, a thing a little bit eccessive considering that this is a videogame.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

(And this is just a pour parler obviously, at this point fdev will not add a non-pvp open nor will make something open only like powerplay, and even less possible would duplicate their galaxy).

 

[Robert Maynard]

That was mostly because some people went on full drama mode, a thing a little bit eccessive considering that this is a videogame.

As did those who jubilantly assumed that after Powerplay was made Open only then the BGS would follow, despite Sandro's clear statement that Powerplay was the only game feature to be even possibly considered for being made Open only. Not long after that stream there was the stream where it was clearly restated that the BGS is for all players to affect, regardless of platform or game mode.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Open only PP-> Open only BGS->Open only->Full loot PVP->Full loot PVP with permadeath. Hunger grows while eating.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

As did those who jubilantly assumed that after Powerplay was made Open only then the BGS would follow, despite Sandro's clear statement that Powerplay was the only game feature to be even possibly considered for being made Open only. Not long after that stream there was the stream where it was clearly restated that the BGS is for all players to affect, regardless of platform or game mode.

But without the drama we saw from some people defending the "all modes are equal". People was really... vocal, let's say this for respect on the fact we are all human beings technically.

But still to have different things would benefit both sides in my opinion (and that's MY opinion, maybe some other people should remember that their opinions are their very own ).

I see that the main issue for some players is avoiding PvP. Cool, I can dig that.

To other people the issue is dealing with invisible enemies.

The two things are clearly not compatible so... two galaxies, two CMDRs, then anybody can chose. I don't see anything wrong in the possibility of choosing. Some other people clearly do, too bad they are the very same people they claim that other people wanna make them play their way...

And again: we'd get the gankers, you'd be in your Open Friendly mode. That would be perfect for everybody. This thing would be the most reasonable thing to ask to FDev to solve this long, tiring and limiting feud.

 

[Florenus]

And again: nobody want to force people to play open. THat's the reason why I believe (even if I admit I don't think FDev will ever do anything similar) that the ideal scenario would be to have two different galaxies, where people with different gamestyles could find their dimension without the obvious absurdities that this forceful cohabitation brings for both Open Players and PG/Solo Players.

Honestly: why should I be interested in playing with you if you don't want to play in Open? And that's the same for you. It's being forced to the same Galaxy that creates the current issues: people "forced" to PvP in Open on one side, and people forced to deal with invisible opponents on the other side.

It would be a win-win situation for both sides. We don't cross each other anyway so...

I'm playing in open most of the time. I'm even engaged in some BGS for roleplaying reasons.
I'm not seeing many people, yet I see how things get influenced by them. I'm ok with that, because it's more fun than changing Elite into Arena kind of game, where you can shoot anybody.
Elite is a game where you don't matter much. Space is big and it's absolutely reasonable that I'm not able to guard star system by myself. The more control you get in the game, the smaller the world gets.
And even if I could control some system and make sure noone would do anything against me - people influencing BGS in any mode add unpredictibility to the game world, which otherwise is pretty much dead.

So no, it's only you who would want some generic PvP game made out of Elite. I like this aspect the way it is.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

But without the drama we saw from some people defending the "all modes are equal". People was really... vocal, let's say this for respect on the fact we are all human beings technically.

But still to have different things would benefit both sides in my opinion (and that's MY opinion, maybe some other people should remember that their opinions are their very own ).

I see that the main issue for some players is avoiding PvP. Cool, I can dig that.

To other people the issue is dealing with invisible enemies.

The two things are clearly not compatible so... two galaxies, two CMDRs, then anybody can chose. I don't see anything wrong in the possibility of choosing. Some other people clearly do, too bad they are the very same people they claim that other people wanna make them play their way...

And again: we'd get the gankers, you'd be in your Open Friendly mode. That would be perfect for everybody. This thing would be the most reasonable thing to ask to FDev to solve this long, tiring and limiting feud.

Basically you would lock in players on chosen mode. After certain advancement there would be high barrier to change mode. As it would mean starting from beginning.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

I'm playing in open most of the time. I'm even engaged in some BGS for roleplaying reasons.
I'm not seeing many people, yet I see how things get influenced by them. I'm ok with that, because it's more fun than changing Elite into Arena kind of game, where you can shoot anybody.
Elite is a game where you don't matter much. Space is big and it's absolutely reasonable that I'm not able to guard star system by myself. The more control you get in the game, the smaller the world gets.
And even if I could control some system and make sure noone would do anything against me - people influencing BGS in any mode add unpredictibility to the game world, which otherwise is pretty much dead.

So no, it's only you who would want some generic PvP game made out of Elite. I like this aspect the way it is.

In your case you engaged in some personal (I guess) activity: what I have in mind are big cohordinated operations involving dozens (or even hundreds) of players: in that case if you exploit the many issues in the BGS there's simply no way to avoid the grind war.

Which it would be cool if everybody is ok with that (for example in the Open Friendly Galaxy I have in mind for people not digging the PvP side), but for other people this thing is very limiting, because they would have to engage in actions that they do not find funny.

As I keep saying it's about giving an alternative where PvP and related emergent gameplay are really important, and not accessory as they are right now. Game is much more complicated than the usual single-ish player thinks it is, there's a lot of potential that could bring players looking for something else, as the Open Friendly Galaxy would bring more players, being sure to avoid PvP and finding people around the Galaxy.

For the 10th time: it would be a win for both sides.

 

[Gleitfrosch]

You know that chess is PvP technically right? You can eat opponent's pieces... ^_^'

but that kind of PVP is consensual. Its not like one player just started the game just to move his figures around for a while hoping that the other one will leave him in peace.
both want to fight each other.

 

[Losco Nosciuto]

Basically you would lock in players on chosen mode. After certain advancement there would be high barrier to change mode. As it would mean starting from beginning.

As it is in all MMOs. You change "server", you start fresh, and that's why players choose wisely where they start based on what they want. You want a full MMO experience with player driven BGS/PP? Go Open, you can interact or not interact but when you do, you're forced to face the consequences of your actions (can't undermine while hiding in another mode).

You like PvE? Join Private (Mobius?)
Like being alone? Join solo.

Want to start in Open? Start fresh.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

Basically you would lock in players on chosen mode. After certain advancement there would be high barrier to change mode. As it would mean starting from beginning.

Well we could talk about that. Years ago when I first proposed the "two galaxies, two CMDRs model", I proposed that the first hours of game could be shared between the two galaxies, then every CMDR should advance by its own. I think something similar could be a good compromise.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

but that kind of PVP is consensual. Its not like one player just started the game just to move his figures around for a while hoping that the other one will leave him in peace.
both want to fight each other.

But Open Only is technically accepting PvP too. It's implicit in the description of the mode in the game menu.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

As it is in all MMOs. You change "server", you start fresh, and that's why players choose wisely where they start based on what they want. You want a full MMO experience with player driven BGS/PP? Go Open, you can interact or not interact but when you do, you're forced to face the consequences of your actions (can't undermine while hiding in another mode).

You like PvE? Join Private (Mobius?)
Like being alone? Join solo.

Want to start in Open? Start fresh.

Is Elite even an MMO? Currently it is kind of hybrid between single player game and MMO. And rather clever at that.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

Is Elite even an MMO? Currently it is kind of hybrid between single player game and MMO. And rather clever at that.

It is a MMO. It is Massive. It is Multiplayer. And it is Online.

And it's got sides, teams, political parties, even if the player is not forced to get involved. So yeah: it is a MMO, and in our particular case an MMO that grants you free invisibility.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

But lets consider when some people so much like non-consensual PVP, other non-consensual activities. Like forcing loser of interdiction to 20 000 ly exploration, want it or not. With ship player is currently flying. Combat rigged FDL, oh thats too bad, why not make exploration FDL? Would that be fun? Say some kind of hacking weapon, locking players FSD to some distant target, permanently untill target is reached....

 

[Tenshi]

Spoiler: Original Post

I'm under the impression that a lot of people, including myself, prefer to play Solo mode all the time, not because we don't want to play with others, but simply because we don't want to PVP others.

For comparison, let me talk to you about of one of the worst launches in recent years, Fallout 76, which to the surprise of some has actually redeemed itself (at least to some extent), but owes it survival to its community, which stood during awful first year fo the game, but also a community that confused Bethesda because the devs were convinced their players wanted more PVP... and they were proven wrong, best depicted through many of the ironic headlines that gaming journalism used to deliver the "shocking" revelation:

Bethesda Didn’t Get Why ‘Fallout 76’ Players Wouldn’t Kill Each Other​

Bethesda Didn’t Get Why ‘Fallout 76’ Players Wouldn’t Kill Each Other

Bethesda was surprised to learn that Fallout 76 players didn't care much for PvP, and how the game has evolved reflects that.

www.forbes.com

Bethesda Apparently Shocked People Didn't Like PvP in 'Fallout 76'​

Bethesda Apparently Shocked People Didn't Like PvP in 'Fallout 76'

"It's a smaller percentage of our player base than we thought."

www.gamingbible.co.uk

Bethesda Surprised By How Many Fallout 76 Players Didn't Want to PvP​

Bethesda Surprised By How Many Fallout 76 Players Didn't Want to PvP

Bethesda VP Pete Hines reveals that the company was surprised to find that players preferred to avoid PvP in Fallout 76 in favor of PvE.

gamerant.com

Bethesda was surprised how uninterested players were in Fallout 76's PvP​

Bethesda was surprised how uninterested players were in Fallout 76's PvP

We just want to be friends.

www.pcgamer.com

Bethesda got confused that Fallout 76 players don’t murder each other​

Why is everyone being so nice?

Bethesda got confused that Fallout 76 players don't murder each other

When Bethesda was designing Fallout 76, it expected players to murder each other, but it turns out they'd rather just work together.

www.pcinvasion.com

Don't misunderstand: Fallout 76 do had (still has to a small degree) griefers and gankers, but the vast majority of players simply preferred not to engage in PVP.

Keeping things short, today many of the ways to engage into PVP have been disabled, pacifist mode is a menu option that makes it almost impossible to engage in PVP, and while the game's reputation will forever be tarnished by its launch, its actually in a better than many people expected (which can't be said for games like EA's Anthem, which already threw the towel and cancelled further development). It still is no substitute for a proper Fallout 5, but as a casual time waster with a Fallout theme: it's passable.

Back to Elite Dangerous, I think a lot more people would like to try playing in Open Play with random strangers in Elite if they had the choice to opt out from PVP, like having an aforementioned pacifist mode that disabled PVP interactions.

But that's just my impression, and I would like to hear what other thinks on this matter:

Do you think that Open Play would be negatively affected if PVP could be disabled?

Do you think Elite could benefit from having more people try to play & cooperate with others in Open Play?

I used to play in Open all the time, right up till a cutter blew up my sidewinder and his statement when I asked why "Because I can." drove me from Open Play. I realised then that the community in Open Play had become what I was getting away from in Eve Online. So Solo or Mobius instance for me.

If I could switch off PvP or of PvP was just allowed between Power Play people then I would return to Open.

Right now if I do go into Open Play I never take part in the Community Goals as I will always do them in solo. Same with Power Play if I choose to do this then it will always be in Solo mode as I know how it upsets the pvp crowd. How I see it, they are the ones that forced me out of Open Play and so I will mess them up by doing stuff they can't control in Solo Mode.

Spent 5 years pvping in Eve Online I just don't want to do it anymore.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

But lets consider when some people so much like non-consensual PVP, other non-consensual activities. Like forcing loser of interdiction to 20 000 ly exploration, want it or not. With ship player is currently flying. Combat rigged FDL, oh thats too bad, why not make exploration FDL?

This is mostly a matter of planning your return to the bubble imho. I know people look for the highest jumping ship possible, but if you deliberately chose to have the D thrusters you know you could get in trouble.

Of course this is in an Open scenario, something that not everybody want, and again: I understand that and I think the game should give people a possibility to play the game as they want.

But the MMO part of the game should be fair too, and PG and solo create inevitably some loopholes in the game that make things already unbalanced as they are even more unbalanced.

And again: it's just a pour parler, Elite Dangerous will stay as it is because it was designed to be the hybrid it is right now, too bad the very fact it is an hybrid creates a lot of issues and frustrations in both sides. The game would be far better for both the groups if the galaxy would be duplicated in a Open Only and a Open Friendly one.

 

[ebbrell]

Open only please.
Get rid of solo or pg. Its killing the game