What could be done to make me use engineering

[AngryAntz]

Disclaimer: these are my, and mine alone, thoughts on your points

1. They should definately add a few "storyline" missions for each engineer, spanning 5-10 missions, to get the reputation. Materials req stays

2. no. just plain and simple no. Also, there will be outcries on the forum (read early fleet carrier price/upkeep threads) whatever pricetag is set

3. Don't really have an opinion there. But, even now computer stuff knows when to do what, to certain limits, but this is also quite a few centuries in to the future


Basically these threads (engineers) are for the very most part people wanting easy mode. Every single thread in this format suggest $$$ for buying engineered modules.
Get creative and jump in to the thread Factagoogle provided, FD are reading it, that's kind of the point isn't it.

The game provides what needs to be done to get what youy need. Yes, it could be better at informing.


MDH

That looks suspiciously like feedback... the OP has specifically banned any feedback other than from himself.

 

[MDHansen]

Ahh so it is just a personal ego trip thread... my mistake... maybe a carefully worded letter would be better, since there is a dedicated feedback thread on this subject. I am sure Fact won't mind providing the link again... sure he has it handy since he only used it earlier today.

OPEN LETTER TIME CONFIRMED!



checks box at the bingo card

 

[Sophokles Logimo]

That looks suspiciously like feedback... the OP has specifically banned any feedback other than from himself.

Wrong. I have pointed out that feedback about my playstyle is out of place in Suggestions.

 

[Sophokles Logimo]

Disclaimer: these are my, and mine alone, thoughts on your points

1. They should definately add a few "storyline" missions for each engineer, spanning 5-10 missions, to get the reputation. Materials req stays

May I ask why the materials system, as such an appeal to you that you absolutely must have it?

 

[MDHansen]

May I ask why the materials system, as such an appeal to you that you absolutely must have it?

Because it is what we have, and it works. It needs tweaking, hence the post started by Bruce(?) so they can get feedback.

But as it seems you aren't really interested in giving feedback, you want an easy solution to a game feature, to make it easy for you to excell in the game. If you're not even interested in picking up "loot" as you go, then this game, dear sir, is most definately not one for you. Simple as that really.


MDH

 

[Sophokles Logimo]

Because it is what we have, and it works.

So you a conservative by mindset. Okay, thanks. It's a valid point of view, though I do not share it.

[...]
But as it seems you [...]

And there we go down the rabbit hole of trolling again. Learn to divorce the critique from the person.

 

[ADAMtheWELSHMANz]

If it costs any significant amount of time, yes, I do.

I am not ASKING for feedback (why would it concern me in any way what you think about my play preferences?). I am GIVING feedback. To FDev.

Time invested in engineering will save time during gameplay.

Better weapons = Faster kills
Better FSD = Fewer jumps
Better shields = Fewer deaths

But hey, you do you OP, who are we to tell you how to play lol

 

[Sophokles Logimo]

Time invested in engineering will save time during gameplay.

Better weapons = Faster kills
Better FSD = Fewer jumps
Better shields = Fewer deaths

Thing is: Those things are the things I WANT to do (except death, obviously, but skill and the right judgement of situations can solve that quite well). The core activities of the game. So what Engineering in its present state does is say "spend time on these horribly boring things so you need to spend less time on the enjoyable things". Wouldn't it be kind of… silly to make that deal?

But hey, you do you OP, who are we to tell you how to play lol

Exactly.

 

[LeoBartlet]

I generally don't use engineering, except a bit of FSD modification and such things. The alienation that I feel whenever I see the barter economy standing in the way is just too large.

What could be done to make me use engineering? Here's a list of options that come to my mind.

• Replace the silly "materials" with special currencies, one per engineer, that can be earned by doing missions for that engineer and maybe a few other instances, each depending on the engineer in question. That way, I can easily see if I have enough for any stuff that engineer offers. (This is something other games do with much acceptance and thus success.)
• Alternatively, add all the modules with all the experimental effects and modifications to certain stations for them to be purchased with credits. Lots of credits, sure. I wouldn't mind, I can earn credits any way I like, whereas not only do I need to do certain unwanted things to earn materials, but I will always have to check the various different things I need for this or that. Bookeeping may be a realistic part of future private spaceship operation, but I really don't want it in a game.
• Maybe take the violations of physical laws out of engineering. Just an example: healing lasers should not heal more than they could otherwise do damage, and should not magically know when do one or the other. Damage increases should come at a relevant tradeoff - otherwise, why would anybody build the non-max damage ones? Yeah, yhea "it's a game". But as it stands, engineering in its present state makes it a bad one - both at the input and at the output side of engineering.

Well, I am sure this will all be ignored by the devs and they will stick to the system they have, one I am not going to use – I play for fun, not for some metric. But I had to get this off my chest.

Feel free to add your own perspectives.

Thank you for posting this in the suggestions forum.

 

[Rat Catcher]

if I, for instance, could take part in PvP

Go take up residence in Watt Port in Enayex.
There is a player group who organise PvP between unengineered sideys (or were, just in case it has died) on Wednesdays, I believe.

 

[AngryAntz]

There is a player group who organise PvP between unengineered sideys (or were, just in case it has died) on Wednesdays, I believe.

They are doing PVP in unengineered ships... of course they died

 

[Ozric]

Let's chill out a bit shall we. Remember to discuss the post and not the poster, that goes for everyone. Also remember this is a discussion forum.

 

[Rat Catcher]

They are doing PVP in unengineered ships... of course they died

With 'matched' unengineered ships, it is surprising how long it can take to 'win'...

 

[AngryAntz]

Kewl I can provide my feedback now.

Most MMO's have currency which you are required to collect items to progress your equipment. In ED this is mats.

I find that I accumulate mats, naturally, but occationally I am required to "grind" out a few extra mats to achieve whatever upgrade I am seeking, either by doing missions or activities that will provide them or by trading them up/down to get them.

I have never found it to be overly arduous to engineer my ships, but do think some of the ground mats need a bit of adjusting.

 

[LeoBartlet]

Let's chill out a bit shall we. Remember to discuss the post and not the poster, that goes for everyone. Also remember this is a discussion forum.

What's to discuss? OP said...

I am not ASKING for feedback (why would it concern me in any way what you think about my play preferences?). I am GIVING feedback. To FDev.

And to be clear, I appreciate you all adding your own views on how you see it completely differently. But if there are misunderstandings about what I said or why, I add information, of course.

 

[AngryAntz]

With 'matched' unengineered ships, it is surprising how long it can take to 'win'...

Oh I though you mean they PVP against other players

Just kidding... I can imagine it would be fun. Like car races that only allow a particular car/setup to compare the skill of the drivers, or in this case the pilot.

 

[Misty_Dark]

You made great effort to suggest me ways how I could do something that I explicitly stated in the OP (which you quoted) I do not want to do. Why would you do that, if not out of a combination of general helpfulness (which I appreciate) and missing the point of this thread.

You even admit yourself that the system as it is causes "grievances". So it seems we agree that the system is in need of improvement.

I posted this in Suggestions. Not in "help so that playing this part of the game is less uarrgs" or any of those subforums. If I absolutely wanted to, of course I could somehow soothe myself into spending my free time with stuff I do not only not enjoy, but actively abhor. But that's not the point of this thread. Again, it is posted in Suggestions.

In an ideal world. FDev would listen to feedback about all that (or would have years ago) and then actually remove the "grievances". Because this is a game. It is supposed to be fun, not "grievance".

I understand that some grinding element is required to keep people engaged. But Engineering clearly, utterly, off-the-charts-ly overdoes this. The way it is, Engineering is an insult to the players. It is like FDev saying "hey videogame addict, we can make you do whatever we like, however silly it is! Muahahaha!".

Disgusting. Whenever I have an experience in-game where I am supposed to have done Engineering,, it pushes me away a little bit. There are other games who get this balance of "necessary grind" vs "fun activities" much better. This thread is about how to improve Elite Dangerous' balance between these two elements so that I don't have to play a certain unfinished game instead that is more resource-hungry.

Many time people post suggestions to change game mechanics, is because they have problem with it. so they want it changed to better suit them, and in many (most?) of these thread, it comes from a lack of understanding of the game mechanic they want to change. So giving them pointer on how to go about the issue in a different way, is often helpful, but then we have people who set their hearts in stone and just lashes out at everybody that do not agree... I cannot understand why so many people like to poke at the bear in those threads...

FDev do listen to the feedback, but it is not very often they tend to implement what is suggested...

• Announced change on how shield boosters works, massive outcry, so we never even got to test the change in Beta server...
• Fleet Carriers was supposed to be Squadron assets, massive outcry, and now we have personal Fleet Carriers...
• Desire to have better AI, got implemented, and many players did not like it, so AI change got change back...
• Engineering changes from initial total random outcome, to current version, where every roll makes it better...
• Material Traders for Engineering stuff

What balance do you think you will change with your suggestion? if anything, past history have taught us, is that you will be spending the atleast the same amount of time doing collecting "stuff" you need to engineer things. Look at the material traders for example, the benefit you get from them comes at a trade cost, so either you spend 1 hour collecting the G5 stuff, doing something you dislike, or spend 6 hours, doing something you like to collect another G5 material, that you then can trade for the needed material..

And those engineering missions, what do you expect them to be really? if they are to be "unique" per engineer, then my guess is that the unlock requirements for the specific engineer is what is used to generate mission in that fit that activity. So Professor Palin - exploration trips, Selene Jean - mining missions, and so on.


If you expect FDev to be a community friendly entity, then you you can sit down in over there on that mossy big rock, where just about everyone else waits to see if FDev is ever going to change...

 

[nemolomen]

@Sophokles Logimo

Use engineering or don't use it, its entirely up to you, and all the rest of this is irrelevant.

 

[Sophokles Logimo]

What balance do you think you will change with your suggestion?

I was talking about the balance between grind (that is, activities within the game that I do not entirely enjoy and wouldn't do as a game on their own, but which, to some degree, can still motivate me to play more if it's not too much) and enjoyable activities that are what draw me to the game.

And those engineering missions, what do you expect them to be really? if they are to be "unique" per engineer, then my guess is that the unlock requirements for the specific engineer is what is used to generate mission in that fit that activity. So Professor Palin - exploration trips, Selene Jean - mining missions, and so on.

And that would make just so much more sense.

Edit: A chain of five missions of exceeding complexity would do this nicely: First, mine some stuff, next mission, do some core mining, third mission: Do core mining with NPC's who lay claim the spot, fourth mission, have some meeting with those people to obtain a limited-time mining license from them for you AND the engineer, etc.

 

[Sophokles Logimo]

@Sophokles Logimo

Use engineering or don't use it, its entirely up to you, and all the rest of this is irrelevant.

Not quite, because PvP exists, and right now I just need to nod and leave when I encounter an aggressive player, because they will most likely have engineered their ships. I don't mind PvP, not even blowing up in a fair fight, but I DO mind engineering – because it makes the fights unfair and thus predictably one-sided.