General Remove PvP 2mill bounty payout limit

CMDR Nathan Atterlein

CMDR Nathan Atterlein
Now, that we have carrier money transfer between commanders, FDev have nothing to worry about, when it comes to extreme bounty levels on a commander being used as money transfer.

If I spent my entire afternoon murdering clean npcs in a system, if someone managed to kill me within my hot vehicle, they should get as many credits my vessel was worth total, or at least the price my rebuy would cost. The only way this could potentially be abused to farm credits would be to use a cheap ship to murder things, and then go for the free sidewinder option, when your head gets collected, but thanks to the ship price/rebuy limit, this wouldn't become an issue. Turns out that exploiting bounties with the freewinder approach is already doable under currently existing game rules, even if it's a total waste of time compared to other activities. Not moving bounty caps to ship-value is now a downright poor choice!

Thoughts?
 
Last edited:

zikolach

zikolach
Recently I did one experiment and got 10 notoriety points with ~46 millions credits bounty from the faction which ships I committed crimes against. But after some time my bounty was decreased to ~23 millions. At the same time my notoriety dropped from 10 to 9. Does it suppose to work this way?

I looked at wiki and this post, but couldn't find any confirmation whether the bounty amount is tied to notoriety.

Does it mean that if another player would kill me while I am still holding 46 or 23 millions bounty, they would only get 2 million credits as a payout?

Maybe then it is some sort of protection so that 2 players could not clean their bound by killing each other? Does it make sense?
 

CMDR Nathan Atterlein

CMDR Nathan Atterlein
zikolach said:
Recently I did one experiment and got 10 notoriety points with ~46 millions credits bounty from the faction which ships I committed crimes against. But after some time my bounty was decreased to ~23 millions. At the same time my notoriety dropped from 10 to 9. Does it suppose to work this way?

I looked at wiki and this post, but couldn't find any confirmation whether the bounty amount is tied to notoriety.

Does it mean that if another player would kill me while I am still holding 46 or 23 millions bounty, they would only get 2 million credits as a payout?

Maybe then it is some sort of protection so that 2 players could not clean their bound by killing each other? Does it make sense?
Click to expand...
If you kill someone with such excessive bounties, indeed, you will only be awarded 2mill maximum. The victim will either pay their rebuy, or lose their ship for a free sidewinder. You can't really game your bounties, unless you decide to sell the wanted hull itself, and replace it with a clean ship.
 

Ski'Thor

Ski'Thor
It's a bit different than selling your goods for 100 and the other player sells them back to you for 1000%

You don't get all the belongings or the networth of those belongings when you bring a wanted criminal to the police. You just get the bounty, and that's it. You are a good citizen, not a criminal :D
 
Last edited:

Dragsham

Dragsham
Well it's obvious. I rack up 1.4 billion in bountys, for example, then I go see my mucker who kills me and collects.
And then he does the same for me...
Or our whole squadron can do it and we each take turns collecting.
Nah ain't exactly by definition, an exploit. But I for one think this would be.
 

DemiserofD

D
Dragsham said:
Well it's obvious. I rack up 1.4 billion in bountys, for example, then I go see my mucker who kills me and collects.
And then he does the same for me...
Or our whole squadron can do it and we each take turns collecting.
Nah ain't exactly by definition, an exploit. But I for one think this would be.
Click to expand...

Easy, just cap the bounty payout at the amount owned by the criminal. If they don't have enough to pay it, sell their ship and give the proceeds to the bounty hunter. After that, take a percentage of their income to pay off what remains.

No credits are generated out of thin air; problem solved.
 

gorankar

gorankar
Is exploitation prevention that big a deal anymore?
Just saying that with there already being a few ways to make 100-150M an hour in game, does uncapping bounties really constitute that big of an exploit? How long does it take to earn a 100-150M bounty?

They could add cool downs. X amount of time b4 your bounty becomes uncapped for a player after they have claimed an over cap bounty on you.
IE. A has a 50M bounty, B collects that bounty. A and B bounties are now capped for A and B for X amount of time but C can still collect an uncapped bounty.

They could also deduct some or all of their bounty from the criminal player's cr balance. Not sure I like that, as it could unduly punish criminal players and just lead to more mlog/clog situations. Bounties already log with a frequency that makes me laugh whenever a pirate or ganker complains about mlog/clog. This would only increase their incentive to log.
 

CMDR Nathan Atterlein

CMDR Nathan Atterlein
Dragsham said:
Well it's obvious. I rack up 1.4 billion in bountys, for example, then I go see my mucker who kills me and collects.
And then he does the same for me...
Or our whole squadron can do it and we each take turns collecting.
Nah ain't exactly by definition, an exploit. But I for one think this would be.
Click to expand...
If there was absolutely no cap for this, then people could potentially find a niche, where this produces a tiny profit, not counting the time it takes to set this whole scenario up. If you flied small ships, and the bhunter would get as much as your ships total cost, you'd pretty much sunk as many credits into this whole ordeal which the pursuer gained, effectively removing any type of exploit usage in the process.

Alternatively, if my 30mill rebuy ship, which costed around a billion credits to build, would end up being destroyed with a 1bill bounty, then the payout for the killer would be astronomical, as well as my losses, which I receive already, as the game currently works...

Anything would be better than a 2 mill cap. Even if they simply removed that, I bet I could gather bounties in a hazres site twice as efficiently, while a guy killing his now 10 notoriety squadmates are messing around, sacrificing multiple accounts worth of online time compared to my single session.

Edit: now that I think about it.. you can already do, what you proposed. 2 mill is the limit, so why not get busy killing clean ships Ina sidey? Exploit the hell out of the current bounty limit. :D
 
Last edited:

CMDR Nathan Atterlein

CMDR Nathan Atterlein
gorankar said:
Is exploitation prevention that big a deal anymore?
Just saying that with there already being a few ways to make 100-150M an hour in game, does uncapping bounties really constitute that big of an exploit? How long does it take to earn a 100-150M bounty?

They could add cool downs. X amount of time b4 your bounty becomes uncapped for a player after they have claimed an over cap bounty on you.
IE. A has a 50M bounty, B collects that bounty. A and B bounties are now capped for A and B for X amount of time but C can still collect an uncapped bounty.

They could also deduct some or all of their bounty from the criminal player's cr balance. Not sure I like that, as it could unduly punish criminal players and just lead to more mlog/clog situations. Bounties already log with a frequency that makes me laugh whenever a pirate or ganker complains about mlog/clog. This would only increase their incentive to log.
Click to expand...
Criminal players with extreme bounties on their head can be slippery targets, especially in an engineered ship. Catching them would no doubt require grombombs or fsd reset missiles, maybe even wake scanners and fast charge fsds to stay in pursuit. And let's be honest, such chases were never really a mainstream thing..

Back when I was actively doing BGS murders, my vette had 3bill bounties racked up on top of it. Any times I ran into player resistance, I usually just ran with that PvE build, to avoid losing all this engineered modules. My opponents didn't really have any incentive to hunt me down, because the cr rewards are laughable, not worth all the headaches of the pursuit. It's a shame, really, because it deprives both me and my opponent the joy of having an adrenaline-packed moment together, for separate reasons.

FDev could go about implementing such change easily, without needing too much intricacies to the mechanism. Having a cap, that limits payout to the total value of the ship would ensure no crs are created out of thin air. One party pays it/loses it, the other party received it. It certainly would make me build a pursuit-vessel, specifically to hunt bgs-murders, maybe even people appearing on the station bounty boards!
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
Would be completely exploitable if lifted right now.

1. Go rack up a multi- billion credit fine by taking and abandoning wing-deliver gold/ silver/palladium missions in mere minutes.
2. Convert that to a bounty by assaulting someone somewhere quiet.
3. Kill your now multi- billion- credit bounty commander with an alt (or do above with an alt and kill with your main)
4. Profit

It would be laughably broken.
 

zikolach

zikolach
Jmanis said:
Would be completely exploitable if lifted right now.

1. Go rack up a multi- billion credit fine by taking and abandoning wing-deliver gold/ silver/palladium missions in mere minutes.
2. Convert that to a bounty by assaulting someone somewhere quiet.
3. Kill your now multi- billion- credit bounty commander with an alt (or do above with an alt and kill with your main)
4. Profit

It would be laughably broken.
Click to expand...
2 sounds like an issue. Why is that happening?
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
zikolach said:
2 sounds like an issue. Why is that happening?
Click to expand...
Because that's the mechanics. If you accrue fines, then commit a crime which would accrue a bounty, you get a bounty, and all fines transfer into the bounty. Simple escalation mechanics, since bounties are harder to clear.

Other way round, any further fineable offences contribute further to the bounty. Has always been that way.
 

DemiserofD

D
You would definitely need to tweak the system a little bit. Credits should never be generated out of thin air.

But that doesn't mean the idea is broken; it just means you need to make sure it can't pay any more than the amount of credits held by the criminal, plus the amount of credits gained by scrapping their ship.

Personally, I think a system like this would actually be really good, as it would encourage players to use weaker ships, probably with less engineering, to avoid losing more valuable modules if they die. I would love to see gankers switching over to vultures with large shock cannons, or something.

It would make technology broker unlocks useful for the first time in forever.
 

CMDR Nathan Atterlein

CMDR Nathan Atterlein
Jmanis said:
Would be completely exploitable if lifted right now.

1. Go rack up a multi- billion credit fine by taking and abandoning wing-deliver gold/ silver/palladium missions in mere minutes.
2. Convert that to a bounty by assaulting someone somewhere quiet.
3. Kill your now multi- billion- credit bounty commander with an alt (or do above with an alt and kill with your main)
4. Profit

It would be laughably broken.
Click to expand...
Wasn't aware of the fine to bounty conversion. Sounds like a exploit, no need to keep it, if FDev ever decided on removing bounty caps.
Because that's the mechanics. If you accrue fines, then commit a crime which would accrue a bounty, you get a bounty, and all fines transfer into the bounty. Simple escalation mechanics, since bounties are harder to clear.

Other way round, any further fineable offences contribute further to the bounty. Has always been that way.
Click to expand...
Sounds a bit nonsense to me. If I actively decided to commit offences warranting a fine, then misfire at someone in a combat scenario, I would receive a bounty on my head, equal to what mass syssec murders have?

Nah, it's definitely bug category. Wouldn't mind if it got canned.
 
Last edited:

CMDR Nathan Atterlein

CMDR Nathan Atterlein
Northpin said:
It would be an exploit even without using the fines<=>bounty conversions.
If's quite common in bgs to amass lots and lots of bounties.
Click to expand...
The only way it could be exploited for free money would require the bounty holder to either pay up, or lose the ship they committed the offences in. Therefore, you would have to do all BGS bounty hoarding in a minimally or not at all engineered small ship, that you have to sacrifice for a free sidey, every time you turn your bounties in to someone. Keep in mind, this way you are essentially burning your mats to low sums of cash...

This could ultimately pay off, if there was absolutely no payout limit, but if the max threshold was the ships value, then it would render any type of exploit attempts a waste of time, while still allowing for insanely good payouts to those, who are deserving of it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom