No. you are forgetting EDO and the fact that in EDO the bounties are CMDR bound.
No ship needs to be lost... just an on-foot kill to transfer all the fat bounty
General Remove PvP 2mill bounty payout limit
- Thread starter CMDR Nathan Atterlein
- Start date
No. you are forgetting EDO and the fact that in EDO the bounties are CMDR bound.
No ship needs to be lost... just an on-foot kill to transfer all the fat bounty
I'm not really sure how Ody bounties work in that regard. In the shipyard, you can see the bounties listed per ship. If I sell the wanted hull, I free myself of the bounty, period.
One of our lads did get caught with their billions of bounties, on foot, and they had to pay up. So the situation Is a little confusing
Also, sorry for the reply spam, but if you die on foot, you have to pay up no matter what. There's no avoiding that. If you don't have the money, you can sell your ships remotely as financial aid...
yea, but this is not about paying the bounty.
this is about lifting the 2 million cap for bounties in pvp.
So it would be extremely easy to rack up billions in bounties, then meet with your friend and let him kill you while on-foot.
No ship lost, easy money transfer.
If money transfer in itself would be a breach of ToS, carriers would not exist. The ban you mentioned previously was most likely a thing, because of out of game valuables being exchanged for ED currency. Apart from that, it's highly unlikely fdev would give players the tools to donate to eachother, if they otherwise punished people for doing so, speaking strictly of in-game valuables.
And soon, we will even have material markets per carrier, so it's yet another sign, that fdev is alright with letting us trade stuff in-game.
I care about the game world of Elite, i care that it conforms to some sort of internal logic that could be extrapolated from a possible real future of mankind in space. In that context EVERY game exploit should be fought and fixed where it just becomes about farming cash. That kind of gameplay (exploit) is anathema to the health of Elites economic game world imho. I would want Frontier to look at ALL the exploits that give people 100-150M an hour and remove them as they ultimately kill the game world and fun of the players.
If you really care about credits, i would suggest focusing that drive (and time investment) in the real world and making real money
But let's keep Elite as 'pure' as it can be.
What would be interesting if there was some sort of debt mechanic introduced in ED. E.g. after being sent to rebuy screen one can choose to not to pay all bounties/fines instantly, but rather choose to transfer certain percent of future earnings (and maybe purchases) until the debt is paid off. Up to maybe 90%, based on the total amount of debt.
So e.g. one wants to by a Cutter for 200M, but having a huge debt would automatically increase the price to 2B (1.8B being used as payment towards the debt).
This way the default sidewinder option on the rebuy screen would be replaced by sidewinder and a debt.
So e.g. one wants to by a Cutter for 200M, but having a huge debt would automatically increase the price to 2B (1.8B being used as payment towards the debt).
This way the default sidewinder option on the rebuy screen would be replaced by sidewinder and a debt.
I could get behind a debt system, bounty-hunters would get more work hunting down real life commanders (in Open, and in Solo it would just be Bounty Hunter NPC ships). You could add a risk level to entering ports as well, a little like it works when carrying illegal goods (so you would need to enter in silent running mode etc), all until the debts are cleared of course.
It's quite hilarious to picture the scenario.
Commander in medical unit. Tied to all sorts of life support.
Government debt collector: soo, about those cops you murdered... It will be 60mill credits total
Commander: Write it on my tab, please.
Gov. agent: Ok, cut his power.
I pictured it slightly differently
Commander in medical unit: oh no, to afford my treatment I have to sell my cargo ship, my only tool to earn money...
Government clerk: you don't need to sell it, we pay your bills, but you will have to pay us from all your future transactions 10% until the debt is paid
Commander: great, I can pay it in just 2 hauls, and keep my fully engineered barge
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Here's some thoughts, some echoing what's already been said.
1. Increase the cap in line with the credit inflation there's been since it was originally set (10mil? 20mil?). Player kill bounties tend not to get so large apparently (I guess from the killers taking rebuys), compared to BGS ones (assuming that's what we're talking about here), so it may not matter so much to have an unlimited cap.
2. Add subsidies to the mix. Sign up with a faction as some kind of "paladin"*, and get subsidised rebuys (including BVs, explo data etc. lost on destruction) in their controlled systems. For a cheap ship it might be 100%, for a brawler cutter it might stretch to 10 mil (~20%). Other paladins for the same faction show up some shade of green on the radar. Notorious or high bounty players show as e.g. pink. Commit a crime and you get kicked and can't re-sign until (a) the next BGS tick and (b) you redeem some bounty vouchers (any faction).
3. Killing an offending player isn't necessarily as effective as keeping them engaged, in terms of stopping them doing badness. Add small payouts e.g. triggered by interdiction with, or a period of extended exchange of fire with, the offending player, scaling with their bounty. Cool-off period or diminishing returns for a given target player to stop it being milked.
Since I see this as Pilot's Fed related, some or all of the above might just apply to bounties/notoriety from player kills. Together, these measures stand to make bounty hunting profit-making instead of penalising, and lower the bar for entry.
Finally, players are the most effective bounty givers, unlimited in terms of the amount or the terms of the contract. It's a sandbox, and this, plus experience, tells us that community-initiated action can get the best results in this game. An out-of-game collective to create a conduit for bounty hunting activity, funded by players, would be interesting and also allow coordination of security operations for big events. And provide a nice contrast from the self-righteous and, sort of shady, vigilante organisations we may have seen in the game.
* a role emerging from some new treaty between factions and Pilots' Fed, perhaps as an outcome from some GalNet uproar about the murderous carnage for which PF members are so often responsible.
1. Increase the cap in line with the credit inflation there's been since it was originally set (10mil? 20mil?). Player kill bounties tend not to get so large apparently (I guess from the killers taking rebuys), compared to BGS ones (assuming that's what we're talking about here), so it may not matter so much to have an unlimited cap.
2. Add subsidies to the mix. Sign up with a faction as some kind of "paladin"*, and get subsidised rebuys (including BVs, explo data etc. lost on destruction) in their controlled systems. For a cheap ship it might be 100%, for a brawler cutter it might stretch to 10 mil (~20%). Other paladins for the same faction show up some shade of green on the radar. Notorious or high bounty players show as e.g. pink. Commit a crime and you get kicked and can't re-sign until (a) the next BGS tick and (b) you redeem some bounty vouchers (any faction).
3. Killing an offending player isn't necessarily as effective as keeping them engaged, in terms of stopping them doing badness. Add small payouts e.g. triggered by interdiction with, or a period of extended exchange of fire with, the offending player, scaling with their bounty. Cool-off period or diminishing returns for a given target player to stop it being milked.
Since I see this as Pilot's Fed related, some or all of the above might just apply to bounties/notoriety from player kills. Together, these measures stand to make bounty hunting profit-making instead of penalising, and lower the bar for entry.
Finally, players are the most effective bounty givers, unlimited in terms of the amount or the terms of the contract. It's a sandbox, and this, plus experience, tells us that community-initiated action can get the best results in this game. An out-of-game collective to create a conduit for bounty hunting activity, funded by players, would be interesting and also allow coordination of security operations for big events. And provide a nice contrast from the self-righteous and, sort of shady, vigilante organisations we may have seen in the game.
* a role emerging from some new treaty between factions and Pilots' Fed, perhaps as an outcome from some GalNet uproar about the murderous carnage for which PF members are so often responsible.
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I didn't even know we could transfer money between CMDRs?
Only with workaround ingame mechanisms like...
Sell any commodity on you carrier for 100 CR and buy it for 1000% of the galaxy wide value
So the 100 Credits your friend spends on your carrier allows him to sell you the exact same item for 1000% more, so you will loose money and he will get it.
But keep in mind: Every active crew on board of your friends ship will get an amount of the made credits, cause they get 5 to 12% of everything you earn.
Do you actually believe 100M or more an hour is always an exploit?I care about the game world of Elite, i care that it conforms to some sort of internal logic that could be extrapolated from a possible real future of mankind in space. In that context EVERY game exploit should be fought and fixed where it just becomes about farming cash. That kind of gameplay (exploit) is anathema to the health of Elites economic game world imho. I would want Frontier to look at ALL the exploits that give people 100-150M an hour and remove them as they ultimately kill the game world and fun of the players.
If you really care about credits, i would suggest focusing that drive (and time investment) in the real world and making real money
It's really the only way anything you said makes sense. And right now there are a lot of ways to do just that, that I would not call an exploit.
There are ways to prevent exploitation while bringing it in line with other game loops that already make that kind of money. I don't see how changing the cap or removing it with certain limits would damage the game. It certainly will not effect how "pure" it is.
As far as Frontier ending exploits, well, core mining, and the eggsploit were likely the most well known ones and they could have fixed them immediately by changing the max sell price of a couple commodities. Instead they let one go on for months and the other nearly 2 years.
I don't personally care about credits anymore, without using the eggsploit, I had mapped out a 12 rock mining run that netted me 400-500M an hour. I am post credits in game. I have no further need to earn them, but I am also not the type that needs to pull the ladder up behind them. Not sure where you were going with your "real money" comment, but I'm doing fine there.
Anything, that increases the overlaps of already existing gameplay loops, would ultimately benefit the game in great magnitudes.
I would love to see some sort of BGS integration into actual gameplay, like what you described. Being able to sign up to a minor faction, and do work for them with increased opportunities, until you kick yourself by causing trouble, amazing stuff.
Increasing the bounty cap to ship value would be a good incentive to start hunting for players (like myself) with extreme bounties on the station bounty toplist. Something nobody ever used to actually bounty-hunt... As it stands, having astronomical bounties give you absolutely 0 extra sense of danger, because the only potential hostiles you will face are opposing BGS runners, who tend to be pretty few and far between in sessions.
All of this would ultimately deepen in-game professions, add complexity, make room for player initiatives, that previously were total nonsense.
I do alot of bgs related stuff...primarily smuggling, across an expanse of the bubble that's pretty quiet. Independent space has its ups & downs.
Whilst running landmines into warzones I sometimes encounter snotty cmdrs obviously rping (I think) having checked me manifest and wanting to know where I'm offloading em. Course my rp is radio silence.......
I get interdicted by em and run away in my smugglkrait or just land and sell sharpish....trouble is I have bout 10 runs there n back....so they do get put out by my incessant actions.
Running up a bounty had its time...I'm now clean - ish.
This weekend l plan to so lots of smuggling across the neighbourhood. And having scraps with disgruntled bgs runners is part n parcel in open only
Whilst running landmines into warzones I sometimes encounter snotty cmdrs obviously rping (I think) having checked me manifest and wanting to know where I'm offloading em. Course my rp is radio silence.......
I get interdicted by em and run away in my smugglkrait or just land and sell sharpish....trouble is I have bout 10 runs there n back....so they do get put out by my incessant actions.
Running up a bounty had its time...I'm now clean - ish.
This weekend l plan to so lots of smuggling across the neighbourhood. And having scraps with disgruntled bgs runners is part n parcel in open only
Well just to start by saying my comment was not targeted at you, i just took the info you gave (100-150M per hour) about cash exploiting in ED, and figured you knew what you were talking about (as a longtime player). But yes it could be argued that if multiple ways to raise such large sums of money exist in a game economy where you simply can not spend it (to 'balance' out the game economy), it is effectively an exploit that ultimately harms the game (players get bored, have nothing new to aim for once they have their multiple gold plated and diamond encrusted Anaconda's (for example!) and have given credits to their friends to also have the same) and in general when designing a game economy you want to build in some form of entropy or money-sink to always reduce the number of mega rich growing more bored in game billionaires.
The reason for that is that for many online gamers when they get bored they simply start to want to muck around and 'ruin' the game for the other players, knowing they are insulated by their vast wealth that nothing really matters to them anymore, so it becomes something that can feed the trolls and griefing gameplay that in particular an MMO lives and dies on (and the main reason i hate MMO games in general).
Having said that, you also want to leave the very rare surprise chances of discovering something truly valuable (and you need a robust system that keeps it very rare and to some extent random/gated to avoid it just becoming another sure-thing exploit that can be posted on the internet ) to ensure that those most loyal and longtime players do have things to look forward too.
And now the reason you and many, many (most perhaps?) other players no longer care about credits is pretty much because in the game world you have nothing interesting to 'spend' them on. If you did then you would carry on finding the fun in doing the stuff the game simulates and have new goals to work towards.
In the older titles ship prices were better balanced from game start, and i don't think i ever made enough to buy a panther clipper (for example), even after years of playing (but not exactly grinding for credits).
I just bought my Krait Phantom after a few weeks of playing (again not grinding or using exploits) and yesterday took a crazy mission that rewarded me something nuts like 20 million for sourcing 90 units of gold (iirc), so now i have 35 million as well as my new ship and the feeling is that in particular that kind of mission is pretty much an 'exploit' in terms of how much cash it drops for one fairly simple delivery run.
35 million is about enough to own ALL the lower cost half of the ships in the game, after 2 weeks of mostly non exploiting traditional (buy low sell high, a few deliveries and passenger runs etc) gameplay. That is not a balanced economy, and more importantly it actually harms the game experience.
Literally this. I see someone purposely killing a huge ton of npc ships to rack up a huge bounty and give peeps (new or veteran) a quick influx of cash
I'm sure 99% of players wouldn't be that idiotic to waste so much time doing that, when you can sell commodities at 5% price on your carrier, and buy it back on 1000%.
At least, I hope so.
This is nothing to do with better balance, and everything to do with you not watching "How To Get A Panther Clipper In 4 Hours" Youtube videos back in the 90s (for many reasons...)
I dug out my old copy of FE2 this afternoon and went flat-out for earnings (not entirely optimally, in retrospect, but decently).
- end of hour 1: just upgraded for the first time to an Adder, got a bit of spare cash. Okay, that's not too bad considering I was speedrunning it.
- end of hour 2: via a Cobra I and Constrictor (skipped the Cobra III and the Asp as my money was going up too fast to need them), I've now upgraded to a Transporter and have a lot of spare cash. Ah. Less good.
- end of hour 3: I have a Tiger Trader and 1.6M spare cash and I'm earning about 100k per run. Almost there...
- since trade in from Tiger to Panther is only 2.3M, it didn't take me the whole hour to buy the ship. (Could probably even have done it within 3 hours if a suitable opportunity to upgrade to the Puma as a stepping stone had come up, or I'd got luckier with the "buying Robots" on the bulletin board, but still, good enough)
Four hours, by a method that even a beginner could follow (zero combat, zero fancy flying, basically point-and-click), and I'd got the most expensive ship in the game, and plenty of money to equip it and fill its hold. Now, sure, it wasn't particularly fun, but that's optimised grinding for you in any game. Every FE2 profession except high-end bulk trade basically earns peanuts, so if you play the game like you're "supposed to" - missions, combat, excitement, visiting more than 3 systems ever - yeah, it takes quite a lot longer and a lot of trips through the die-reload-retry cycle to get anywhere near the Panther. But if you play it like an Elite Dangerous walkthrough grinder, it's very quick indeed.
Elite Dangerous is certainly not great for credit balance, but even with current earnings I think it'd be impossible for an unassisted beginner to get an A-rated Anaconda within 4 hours (though an experienced player resetting their account probably can manage it). And obviously a Corvette or Cutter - or engineering the Anaconda - isn't going to happen in that timescale.
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As far as the bounty cap goes, it was set back when 30M/hour was "shut down that exploit" levels of earning. It could certainly be increased to 10-20M without any serious exploitability in the context of current legitimate credit earning rates, even if they don't want to remove it entirely. Removing the cap entirely but making PvP bounties split rather than copy when claimed as a wing would make it entirely useless for credit transfer/gain as it'd always be negative-sum compared with the existing FC zero-sum and Wing Mission positive-sum methods for giving other players money, so again no exploit there.