Patch 11 Design Decision Feedback

Factabulous · Mar 16, 2022

My 2c:

Bar storage limited to 100

We can already keep 3000 in our ships, not sure why Fleet Carriers are so limited? For example I had been collecting Graphene etc to keep on my DSSA FC so passing commanders could upgrade their Artemis suits, but there is no way I can do that with 100 storage. Anyway - anyone need 500 Graphene?

The only way I can see this being useful at the moment is as a dropbox - last night I left a bunch of Settlement Defence Plans for a pal to pick up later to save actually meeting. Other than that I don't see much utility as it stands. The bar contents not being reflected in the journals is also a problem ofc.

Edit: It also is a bit strange as at the moment the 'shop' (FC) has less capacity than the customer (commander). So any single commander can easily clear out all your goods in one go. I can't think of any shop that works on that basis.

No Apex to FC

I know Bruce stated that :

Bruce G said:
There's a few reasons for this, including not wanting players to get stranded (especially newer players who are more likely to use Apex)

I'd just like to state that isn't true. As a somewhat not-new player I use Apex extensively - I rarely use my ships when doing Odyssey content apart from when I want to visit my FC - then I need to call a ship (often from the FC) and wait the 5 minutes that intra-system ship transfer takes. This is ... not ideal.

FC already have escape pods, and megaships already move - this seems a non-optimum design decision for me.

No Frontline Solutions on FC

This is more of a nice-to-have. Many systems only have Outposts (no Frontline) in space, or have Frontline only in locations a long way from the fight (e.g. Carcosa). Adding the ability to put a FC with Frontline Solutions near a warzone would have been a great new use for FC. I think this would have been useful.

Rubbernuke · Mar 16, 2022

Factabulous said:
My 2c:

Bar storage limited to 100

We can already keep 3000 in our ships, not sure why Fleet Carriers are so limited? For example I had been collecting Graphene etc to keep on my DSSA FC so passing commanders could upgrade their Artemis suits, but there is no way I can do that with 100 storage. Anyway - anyone need 500 Graphene?

The only way I can see this being useful at the moment is as a dropbox - last night I left a bunch of Settlement Defence Plans for a pal to pick up later to save actually meeting. Other than that I don't see much utility as it stands. The bar contents not being reflected in the journals is also a problem ofc.

No Apex to FC

I know Bruce stated that :

I'd just like to state that isn't true. As a somewhat not-new player I use Apex extensively - I rarely use my ships when doing Odyssey content apart from when I want to visit my FC - then I need to call a ship (often from the FC) and wait the 5 minutes that intra-system ship transfer takes. This is ... not ideal.

FC already have escape pods, and megaships already move - this seems a non-optimum design decision for me.

No Frontline Solutions on FC

This is more of a nice-to-have. Many systems only have Outposts (no Frontline) in space, or have Frontline only in locations a long way from the fight (e.g. Carcosa). Adding the ability to put a FC with Frontline Solutions near a warzone would have been a great new use for FC. I think this would have been useful.

A possible solution for APEX that someone mentioned (as to avoid new on foot players from exhausting all money and becoming stuck when FC locations change) is to maybe have an emergency fund that is repaid like the loan on rebuy. So if you fail missions, have no cash to buy a taxi and play alone you can still have options.

Vandaahl · Mar 16, 2022

Factabulous said:
My 2c:

Bar storage limited to 100

We can already keep 3000 in our ships, not sure why Fleet Carriers are so limited? For example I had been collecting Graphene etc to keep on my DSSA FC so passing commanders could upgrade their Artemis suits, but there is no way I can do that with 100 storage. Anyway - anyone need 500 Graphene?

The only way I can see this being useful at the moment is as a dropbox - last night I left a bunch of Settlement Defence Plans for a pal to pick up later to save actually meeting. Other than that I don't see much utility as it stands. The bar contents not being reflected in the journals is also a problem ofc.

Edit: It also is a bit strange as at the moment the 'shop' (FC) has less capacity than the customer (commander). So any single commander can easily clear out all your goods in one go. I can't think of any shop that works on that basis.

With the allowed price ranges, upping the storage capacity would be pointless. The market itself is the first bullet through both Bar knees, the 100 item storage limit (and engineered back pack can hold more, lol) just the 2nd.

Astaran · Mar 16, 2022

The various monitors around the FC already show the name of the FC, the ID and the current time.

I would also like to see the current location of the FC (System name, maybe precise location within the system as well: Planet and moon) and the next destination when a jump is scheduled (unless destination is already shown, I haven't checked yet)

Edit: I really like this update and consider the FC interiors a very good foundation that can be expanded upon later. Good job

Vandaahl · Mar 16, 2022

Rubbernuke said:
A possible solution for APEX that someone mentioned (as to avoid new on foot players from exhausting all money and becoming stuck when FC locations change) is to maybe have an emergency fund that is repaid like the loan on rebuy. So if you fail missions, have no cash to buy a taxi and play alone you can still have options.

APEX on carrier is exploitable and could create even more 'botting' problems.

Winterwalker · Mar 16, 2022

Vandaahl said:
APEX on carrier is exploitable and could create even more 'botting' problems.

Even if it wasn't exploitable I think it's a fair design decision to leave Apex out of it .. if you don't have a ship of your own, you do have to use another player's ship (multicrew) to get aboard a player owned carrier platform.

I'd like to be able to rename the pilot's lounge .. to a silly but memorable name for the bar.

Rubbernuke · Mar 16, 2022

Vandaahl said:
APEX on carrier is exploitable and could create even more 'botting' problems.

How?

A lot (if not all) botting issues comes down to missions and A to B travel being so uninvolving, or the systems themselves being simplistic.

Powerplay for example can be bot free if it wanted to.

Phoenix_Dfire · Mar 16, 2022

I've only got a few small pieces of feedback so far.

1) if your sat down in the bar or carrier, please let us still use the chat windows.
2) Zero G environments (Carrier, Mega ships and outposts) need to have appropriate glassware at the bar (I know this is a tiny one but it sure fires my OCD for some reason).
3) Add access to the carrier command screen from the lovely animated touchpad in the commanders chair.

Northpin · Mar 16, 2022

Factabulous said:
Bar storage limited to 100

My take on this is the Bartender is there to help players trade the rarest stuff - SDP and the likes, thus making them not so rare
And not to act as storage, nor as a cash printing machine

Sure, since we have no way to advertise what our carriers are selling (or buying) - we'd have to rely on Forums threads

Factabulous said:
No Apex to FC

Yea, i would have loved Apex to FC
I guess the reason was more technical than "think of the ~~children~~ new players" but i might be as well mistaken.

What i would love more than Apex to FC would be Apex to Planetary POIs

Factabulous said:
No Frontline Solutions on FC

Cant say that i miss them.
To me Frontline Solutions are more of a problem than a solution.
And they're not really needed since one can already cash the combat bonds using the Redemption service

Sure, they're useful for someone willing to completely skip the ship play in Odyssey, but that not quite possible (yet)
Also i assume it's basically the same with having no mission board on Carriers.

Vandaahl · Mar 16, 2022

Rubbernuke said:
How?

Not going into too much detail, but I find it weird you can transfer your active ship, with cargo and active missions, absolutely risk free.
And it becomes traffic no one is able to see. No one knows you've been there.

Rubbernuke · Mar 16, 2022

Vandaahl said:
Not going into too much detail, but I find it weird you can transfer your active ship, with cargo and active missions, absolutely risk free.
And it becomes traffic no one is able to see. No one knows you've been there.

How does that relate to APEX though?

Northpin · Mar 16, 2022

Rubbernuke said:
How does that relate to APEX though?

take an apex
transfer the ship

Rubbernuke · Mar 16, 2022

Northpin said:
take an apex
transfer the ship

Then it seems not having APEX is the lesser of the evils then. But saying that being able to transfer a ship full of cargo seems the bigger issue, not APEX to FCs.

Mack Winston · Mar 16, 2022

Fleet carrier owners should be able to get an Apex to their own fleet carrier.

Northpin · Mar 16, 2022

Mack Winston said:
Fleet carrier owners should be able to get an Apex to their own fleet carrier.

Too many IF Then Else statements

thistle · Mar 16, 2022

Factabulous said:
No Frontline Solutions on FC

This is more of a nice-to-have. Many systems only have Outposts (no Frontline) in space, or have Frontline only in locations a long way from the fight (e.g. Carcosa). Adding the ability to put a FC with Frontline Solutions near a warzone would have been a great new use for FC. I think this would have been useful.

Wouldn't the back-end logic for frontline even existing depend on the BGS state of the nearby systems? So the only place it would have use would be in the bubble(s) and i'm not sure how it would become 'active' as such. In the sense that you could only add it in the carrier systems, then move it to a relevant location where the backend code might connect to the local BGS states and produce missions?

Complicated i suspect.

Factabulous · Mar 16, 2022

thistle said:
Wouldn't the back-end logic for frontline even existing depend on the BGS state of the nearby systems? So the only place it would have use would be in the bubble(s) and i'm not sure how it would become 'active' as such. In the sense that you could only add it in the carrier systems, then move it to a relevant location where the backend code might connect to the local BGS states and produce missions?

Complicated i suspect.

Yeah, but on stations it already just says 'go away' if there are no wars. And I wouldn't expect it would be used by explorers. There are still a few FC in the bubble

Daniel Cloudsifter · Mar 16, 2022

Factabulous said:
My 2c:

Bar storage limited to 100

We can already keep 3000 in our ships, not sure why Fleet Carriers are so limited? For example I had been collecting Graphene etc to keep on my DSSA FC so passing commanders could upgrade their Artemis suits, but there is no way I can do that with 100 storage. Anyway - anyone need 500 Graphene?

The only way I can see this being useful at the moment is as a dropbox - last night I left a bunch of Settlement Defence Plans for a pal to pick up later to save actually meeting. Other than that I don't see much utility as it stands. The bar contents not being reflected in the journals is also a problem ofc.

Edit: It also is a bit strange as at the moment the 'shop' (FC) has less capacity than the customer (commander). So any single commander can easily clear out all your goods in one go. I can't think of any shop that works on that basis.

Actually the first problem is why do we have to pay for the Bar? We don't have to pay for the commodity service. The only "extra" carrier fee for ship based trading is if you want to operate a black market.

Second problem is the capacity you mention. That really cripples the function.

Third issue is the limit on the prices we can charge for items. Market forces will take care of that.

Any one of these three issues I could live with. All three together? Forget it.

Daniel Cloudsifter · Mar 16, 2022

Factabulous said:
Yeah, but on stations it already just says 'go away' if there are no wars. And I wouldn't expect it would be used by explorers. There are still a few FC in the bubble

Yeah, but it might cause all kinds of glitches trying to recalculate whether there are wars to fund or not as you jump.

Also, what happens if someone deploys from Frontline on your carrier to an in-system CZ and then the carrier jumps out before they're done.

I think carrier mobility is the very reason both Apex and Frontline services aren't offered on carriers; the destination could change while players are "engaged" and then it would bug out when they're supposed to arrive/CZ is done.

Don't get me wrong. I'd like to see these available too, but I can see too many programmatic issues with them on carriers.

Northpin · Mar 16, 2022

Daniel Cloudsifter said:
Actually the first problem is why do we have to pay for the Bar? We don't have to pay for the commodity service. The only "extra" carrier fee for ship based trading is if you want to operate a black market.

I said that too, but then someone indirectly accused me being cheap and what am i supposed to spend all my billions if not on upkeep

I assumed the Bartender would be an extension of the Commodity market - which was universally free for each and every carrier owner.
Same for UC and Vista and Pioneer Supplies and Outfitting