Any updates on anti-aliasing work?

t-lo

t-lo
Hey,

in the last top 20 issues status report we got (which happened in early October 2021, no updates since then), the anti-aliasing issue was discussed as
  • Anti-Aliasing Not Working Correctly: Some changes will go in Update 7 or 8, with significant improvements, but a full anti-aliasing system is slated for later this year.
with "later this year" referring to 2021; but a "full anti-aliasing system" never materialised.

Back in the day, the anti-aliasing issue was on rank 8 of the 20 most voted for issues; now, in March 2022, it's the second most voted for issue. The aliasing / jaggedness in Odyssey specifically is in-your-face bad, and none of the AA options have any tangible impact on image quality. Aliasing makes the game look exceptionally bad and that's reflected by the amount of votes in the issue tracker. Is there any work planned to resolve this issue?

Update 2022-04-15: Anti Aliasing Not Working Correctly is now the No. #1 top-voted issue. Players want this issue fixed.
 
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Darth Ender

D
it's right after they tackle occlusion culling and powerplay power collapse.

I'd just assume if a topic has existed for the better part of a decade in the game, that it's not going to ever get addressed. keep bringing it up, sure, but treat it like you're posting in the suggestion forum.
 

Frop

Frop
iu
 

t-lo

t-lo
I don't think it's unrealistic to get this corrected, and I see the lack of progress in the past as a prioritisation issue rather than technological incompetence / inability. Frontier Developments has published quite a few games using the Cobra engine, and has demonstrated on more than one occasion what beautiful (and well-antialiased) images the engine can produce.
With regard to prioritisation - which, as just laid out, would not be unreasonable to suspect to be the main reason for lack of traction - player input / customer feedback as well as continued discussion of the issue will help raising awareness at FDev.
While I understand that the history of disappointments many players have experienced with Frontier's handling of the game over the years can be frustrating to the point of posing an emotional drag, I do not feel that internalising this disappointment and exerting it on one of the most voted-for improvements will create either progress or even just personal satisfaction.
Other Cobra engine based games illustrate this issue can be solved. The lack of Anti-Aliasing is the second most voted-for issue, proving its significance as a major pain point for many players - investigating potential fixes should be prioritised.
 

CaptainPugwash

CaptainPugwash
t-lo said:
I don't think it's unrealistic to get this corrected, and I see the lack of progress in the past as a prioritisation issue rather than technological incompetence / inability. Frontier Developments has published quite a few games using the Cobra engine, and has demonstrated on more than one occasion what beautiful (and well-antialiased) images the engine can produce.
With regard to prioritisation - which, as just laid out, would not be unreasonable to suspect to be the main reason for lack of traction - player input / customer feedback as well as continued discussion of the issue will help raising awareness at FDev.
While I understand that the history of disappointments many players have experienced with Frontier's handling of the game over the years can be frustrating to the point of posing an emotional drag, I do not feel that internalising this disappointment and exerting it on one of the most voted-for improvements will create either progress or even just personal satisfaction.
Other Cobra engine based games illustrate this issue can be solved. The lack of Anti-Aliasing is the second most voted-for issue, proving its significance as a major pain point for many players - investigating potential fixes should be prioritised.
Click to expand...
For me the anti-aliasing in elite is exacerbated by the many straight lines of the cockpits and stations, so maybe it’s just less of a problem in the other games and needs a new approach in elite (for which so far they haven’t justified the cost)?
 

FrogsFriend

FrogsFriend
[VR] CaptainPugwash said:
For me the anti-aliasing in elite is exacerbated by the many straight lines of the cockpits and stations, so maybe it’s just less of a problem in the other games and needs a new approach in elite (for which so far they haven’t justified the cost)?
Click to expand...
Yes, the ED world is mainly built of hard-edged objects lit by bright point sources. They can't get a lot of benefit from the usual game tricks of soft rounded edges, distance blur, atmospheric haze, etc.
 

CaptainPugwash

CaptainPugwash
FrogsFriend said:
Yes, the ED world is mainly built of hard-edged objects lit by bright point sources. They can't get a lot of benefit from the usual game tricks of soft rounded edges, distance blur, atmospheric haze, etc.
Click to expand...
So far the best solution I have found is to turn AA off and use the nvidia DSR at least 2 with around 50-60% smoothing on my GTX 1080, then use 0.85 SS in game. I have a 32 inch 2k monitor so it’s still not great.
 

Morbad

Morbad
I've resigned myself to the reality that I'm not going to get the frame rate I want while using enough supersampling to compensate for the poor AA on lines or brightly light edges. I've also tried a large combination of post process AA injectors, and the only settings agressive enough to adequately smooth these edges destroy so much detail that it's not even close to worth it.

What the game needs is a decent temporal AA solution, but that's a lot more work than some post process shader. I don't know that Frontier is up to it. I hope they are, but my expectations are not high.
 

Frop

Frop
Morbad said:
I've resigned myself to the reality that I'm not going to get the frame rate I want while using enough supersampling to compensate for the poor AA on lines or brightly light edges. I've also tried a large combination of post process AA injectors, and the only settings agressive enough to adequately smooth these edges destroy so much detail that it's not even close to worth it.

What the game needs is a decent temporal AA solution, but that's a lot more work than some post process shader. I don't know that Frontier is up to it. I hope they are, but my expectations are not high.
Click to expand...
On an unrelated note, did you notice any changes in the way the on-foot Night Vision effect is being applied since U11? It looks like there's even more "edge detection" (wouldn't know what to call it really) than before as for instance facial features on NPCs and other details in assets seem to suddenly be (more brightly) lit.
 

Morbad

Morbad
Frop said:
On an unrelated note, did you notice any changes in the way the on-foot Night Vision effect is being applied since U11? It looks like there's even more "edge detection" (wouldn't know what to call it really) than before as for instance facial features on NPCs and other details in assets seem to suddenly be (more brightly) lit.
Click to expand...

I haven't checked on-foot night vision in a few patches (I used it so infrequently that I sold my suits that had it), but I'll take a look at it when I can.
 

Frop

Frop
Morbad said:
I haven't checked on-foot night vision in a few patches (I used it so infrequently that I sold my suits that had it), but I'll take a look at it when I can.
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I used it for convenience, but coupled with the terrible AA it was a pretty uncomfortable experience already. Now it's even worse unless I'm simply imagining things.
 

CptXabaras

CptXabaras
Only way to "fix it" for me is enabling DLDSR at 2.25x on Gforce CP, upping my res from native 1440p to 3840x2160 and then apply 0.75 scaling in game. Got same performance as 1440p but with way, way less aliasing.

Edit for clarity: while i do the above, its a bit of a shame that a dx11 game has to recur to this tinkering on respectable hardware that i have, not top notch by any means, but still pretty powerfull for my 1440p gaming. Nonetheless the game performance has greatly improved since that "Alpha" started...hell i was there on lunch day, what a mess :D. only hoping that this Alpha period will end soon...
 
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Morbad

Morbad
10k internal resolution on a 2k monitor does a pretty good job of eliminating jaggies and shimmer:
ayMDp9u.jpg


Unfortunately, 16GiB of VRAM isn't enough (hence the missing LODs) and frame rate would need to increase by about five fold.

So, maybe when I have an RTX 5090 Ti some time around 2025, Odyssey will look the way it should.
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
rootsrat
t-lo said:
Hey,

in the last top 20 issues status report we got (which happened in early October 2021, no updates since then), the anti-aliasing issue was discussed as
  • Anti-Aliasing Not Working Correctly: Some changes will go in Update 7 or 8, with significant improvements, but a full anti-aliasing system is slated for later this year.
with "later this year" referring to 2021; but a "full anti-aliasing system" never materialised.

Back in the day, the anti-aliasing issue was on rank 8 of the 20 most voted for issues; now, in March 2022, it's the second most voted for issue. The aliasing / jaggedness in Odyssey specifically is in-your-face bad, and none of the AA options have any tangible impact on image quality. Aliasing makes the game look exceptionally bad and that's reflected by the amount of votes in the issue tracker. Is there any work planned to resolve this issue?
Click to expand...
It would be great to get an update on this indeed.
 

CaptainPugwash

CaptainPugwash
Morbad said:
10k internal resolution on a 2k monitor does a pretty good job of eliminating jaggies and shimmer:
ayMDp9u.jpg


Unfortunately, 16GiB of VRAM isn't enough (hence the missing LODs) and frame rate would need to increase by about five fold.

So, maybe when I have an RTX 5090 Ti some time around 2025, Odyssey will look the way it should.
Click to expand...
Well here’s hoping that the new temporal AA system got stalled while they were still trying to get ODY on consoles, and it’s now under development … :)
 
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