Console Update

[Tipo]

They went radio silent because if they were coming out a month ago saying "we are teetering on the edge of cancelling the console release because porting it over to consoles at a reasonable level of performance is proving impossible", that sort of uncertain waffling would both cause the players to go ballistic over it and probably damage their stock numbers further because shareholders hate uncertainty and will sell if they detect it.

And you think that's been prevented, after the thousands of hours of grinding and the money spent on in-game currency? To suddenly be told every message (not many for console gamers) communicated to us over the past 2 years has been scrapped, to announce all console development has ceased without even offering a mechanism to transfer accounts to PC and/or offer us a PC license, you think that has prevented console "players to ballistic"?

For console players, the words "nothing to announce" has pretty much been par the course for 4 years!

 

[Bonesaw]

And you think that's been prevented, after the thousands of hours of grinding and the money spent on in-game currency? To suddenly be told every message (not many for console gamers) communicated to us over the past 2 years has been scrapped, to announce all console development has ceased without even offering a mechanism to transfer accounts to PC and/or offer us a PC license, you think that has prevented console "players to ballistic"?

For console players, the words "nothing to announce" has pretty much been par the course for 4 years!

 

[Bonesaw]

For console players, the words "nothing to announce" has pretty much been par the course for 4 years:

On the bright side,we won't be hearing that anymore !Or anything else on console for that matter.

 

[Rat Catcher]

On the bright side,we won't be hearing that anymore !Or anything else on console for that matter.

Indeed, such glorious news should be shared...

 

[Fizzatron]

the benefit of the doubt that these are not calculated decisions that management is aware of (rather than them being at the mercy of faceless bean-counters) is kind of gone given how odyssey was released though. To think that Fdev wouldn't make a decision that benefits them at the cost of their players is just entirely ignoring that whole release. So we know they're willing to do it.

So did they purposely not make public their decision to cancel console odyssey to eek out more sales than they would from consoles if they had delivered the news when it was fairly certain that such a choice going to be made?

I think most players who follow any of this would say yes. It's just a matter of how far into this odyssey release did they make that call? I think the lack of updates on console odyssey performance despite them needing to periodically test as release updates were made to verify current console performance levels points to a very likely choice that they weren't going to release and so didn't want to make an impression that they might any more than they already did at the point of odyssey release.

I think after the first couple updates, it would have been a near certainty for fdev if console was ever going to happen and I think the lack of communicating any status updates makes that intention pretty clear. The cutoff of when to tell would be as long as they can postpone narrative and other content depending on the narrative without hurting sales. Since the news to cancel console can only have a negative impact on income, and holding on to it too long has diminishing returns and shadows any positive communications. So Braben (assuming he's even a managing aspect of the project) likely knew this was how it would go 5+ months ago. It just served the business better to hold that info until they had to.

Man, and you accuse me of being conspiratorial....

 

[Bottom Hat]

Man, and you accuse me of being conspiratorial....

(Don't tell anyone I told you, but the guy is madder than a fish. In fact he makes me look like a well-adjusted successful Wall Street banker....)

 

[Fizzatron]

I will be watching the Console to PC transfer with interest.

If they are doing total transfers (ARX, paintjobs, decals..), I would like to request that for us that have made the jump and still maintain an active console account (which I play from time to time as a Pirate) to have some of our paintjobs/decals transferred over as well.

Quite honestly, I only want my DW2 Decal which I earned on PS4.

Do I believe it is sad that the development for Consoles can go no further but I have expectations that this will give FDev to pool all their resources to maintain the game with better focus.

I think transfer to PC and keeping console commander is a bit much, though it did make me wonder if transferring ARX purchased gear would show up as another loss on the accounting books if they offered it. Although thinking again, it would be positive PR to make it happen which if could be shown to measurably help player retention (going full corp speak here, at least for me..), it could be viewed as net positive outcome for investors, even given the appreciable on paper (and tax) loss it might incur.

 

[Fizzatron]

(Don't tell anyone I told you, but the guy is madder than a fish. In fact he makes me look like a well-adjusted successful Wall Street banker....)

I guess that speaks volumes about me getting into discussions with him then

 

[Bottom Hat]

I guess that speaks volumes about me getting into discussions with him then

Indeed! You have dared cross into the realms of my filthy mind, so I'd advise to limit your mental scars to that!

 

[Koben]

@Bottom Hat being in his best faculties and spot-on on a inconspicous Wednesday afternoon...
End of times indeed!

 

[Darth Ender]

Man, and you accuse me of being conspiratorial....

that's not tin foil hattery conspiracy. it's just what is most likely when you exclude incompetence.

the console Odyssey blackout only served one purpose with one eventuality likely to come to be. it would make no sense if a release was forthcoming.

the lack of progress updates is the evidence i think reveals that this was the plan from nearly the start. and the point of giving up on it was likely early on, since it would be apparent to fdev just what is slowing things down is not going to be fixed enough without a total redo. i think not long after attempts were made to fix occlusion handling and those mostly ended up ineffective and initial shader low hanging fruit weren't enough.

but they kept hope alive to eek out more sales. that's really the crux of the accusation... but it is not out of character for them. it is annoying to keep pulling the example of odyssey's release out but it was what it was. i have zero doubt that the people who ok'd that would have no problem leading console players on to get a few more sales

 

[thistle]

that's not tin foil hattery conspiracy. it's just what is most likely when you exclude incompetence.

the console Odyssey blackout only served one purpose with one eventuality likely to come to be. it would make no sense if a release was forthcoming.

the lack of progress updates is the evidence i think reveals that this was the plan from nearly the start. and the point of giving up on it was likely early on, since it would be apparent to fdev just what is slowing things down is not going to be fixed enough without a total redo. i think not long after attempts were made to fix occlusion handling and those mostly ended up ineffective and initial shader low hanging fruit weren't enough.

but they kept hope alive to eek out more sales. that's really the crux of the accusation... but it is not out of character for them. it is annoying to keep pulling the example of odyssey's release out but it was what it was. i have zero doubt that the people who ok'd that would have no problem leading console players on to get a few more sales

In which case I dread to think what an actual Darth Ender conspiracy theory would look like.

 

[Darth Ender]

In which case I dread to think what an actual Darth Ender conspiracy theory would look like.

Would probably involve someone high up at fdev actively 5th columning the game due to a secret hatred of rubbernuke and those like him.

 

[thistle]

Surely the most likely explanation for the "console odyssey blackout" as you call it is ... what fdev said?

Even the complete silence after xmas suggested far from already having decided to abandon console, the decision was being actively discussed? Perhaps even being tested on hardware? But dragging it out to get small console sales before the decision? Lol.

That fdev haven't explained in detail the decision or timeline to any of us doesn't imply deceit, it implies, well, why would they explain it in detail?

 

[thistle]

Would probably involve someone high up at fdev actively 5th columning the game due to a secret hatred of rubbernuke and those like him.

Occam's razor. Much more likely to be the degenerate State of the Game thread.

 

[Darth Ender]

Surely the most likely explanation for the "console odyssey blackout" as you call it is ... what fdev said?

Their explanation of what? that they wouldn't start on it until after pc? that's just not true. We know they were doing parallel work on it thru the odyssey post-release updates.
Dr. Ross mentioned as much directly in discussions with people after she left that work was being done. But we also know this from just common sense, you dont know how much work is needed unless you're testing. You wouldn't make a call to cancel or not cancel without knowing just where you stand.

Even the complete silence after xmas suggested far from already having decided to abandon console, the decision was being actively discussed? Perhaps even being tested on hardware? But dragging it out to get small console sales before the decision? Lol.

I think that was a calculated call to get any holiday sales in that could be gotten. The worker bees may not have been privy to the call but the directive to say nothing and give no info tells that the people up top had this conclusion already prepared. If not an absolute certainty, then very nearly one since progress updates (which we know they'd have) would have been more effective than silence otherwise. But providing those if you knew the end result was cancellation would be much more problematic than plausible deniability.

That fdev haven't explained in detail the decision or timeline to any of us doesn't imply deceit, it implies, well, why would they explain it in detail?

Indeed, they are not served by giving details because they gain nothing from doing so. It's (cancelling consoles) a failure no matter how you slice it since it wasn't some unavoidable outcome and they look bad no matter what, and leaving it a mystery is the best option.

But like their explanation with the launch, - the dots being connected are not stretches to connect.

 

[thistle]

Their explanation of what? that they wouldn't start on it until after pc? that's just not true. We know they were doing parallel work on it thru the odyssey post-release updates.
Dr. Ross mentioned as much directly in discussions with people after she left that work was being done. But we also know this from just common sense, you dont know how much work is needed unless you're testing. You wouldn't make a call to cancel or not cancel without knowing just where you stand.

Well, not really. From Dr Ross (My bold):

At the time of leaving there was continuing efforts across multiple departments to optimise and eventually release on console Hence why I didn't expect the decision. Could things have not worked out, or something gone wrong? Could management have changed priorities? I guess so

Aye it's an awful shame it didn't come to fruition. In porting there's a precarious balance between staff bandwidth, amount to do, budget & income, fidelity targets, and time pressures (in project and out of it) - I presume it got re-evaluated and a harsh line drawn

I think you're seeing what you want to see there, to fit your narrative/assumption of deceit.

I think that was a calculated call to get any holiday sales in that could be gotten.

How many holiday console sales do you really imagine they got on the basis of EDO?

But like their explanation with the launch, - the dots being connected are not stretches to connect.

The dots can form any shape you imagine. It's up there with doing 'research' on facebook. No matter what you are trying to prove, you'll find 'evidence'.

 

[Darth Ender]

Well, not really. From Dr Ross (My bold):




I think you're seeing what you want to see there, to fit your narrative/assumption of deceit.

So the efforts to optimize for eventual release on console in your mind means pretending in your head how that's all is going to perform and just assuming it is bad and leaving it at that?
That's not how things work. Why optimize assets and such for console if you're not actually testing? Just like how I can't run the game on an intel nvidia machine and just assume that same performance is what I can expect on an AMD radeon one, you wouldn't make a call on console performance based on PC performance. You'd be testing on console to get a baseline and then periodically to see if any updates have gotten you closer to the finish line so you can set as early of a console release date as possible.

The implication of that quote is that work was being done for consoles for testing ...not that PC optimization was being done and that this was work "to optimize and eventually release on consoles". There are much more concise and simpler ways to say that PC optimization was ongoing still and that would presumably trickle down to consoles once that work started. The response you'd give if the fdev console statement were true would have looked quite different. She wouldn't have been surprised for one, because if work hadn't even been started and ongoing, why would it catch you by surprise that it was decided to just never start?

How many holiday console sales do you really imagine they got on the basis of EDO?

The basis of a game not being EOL'd ... more than the sales you get on a game that is EOL'd. Keep in mind the people seeing adverts about upcoming odyssey on consoles are likely not elite forum readers with the background that the chances of that upcoming DLC are fairly grim and the developer is refusing to give any updates for months leading up to the holiday buying season.

The dots can form any shape you imagine. It's up there with doing 'research' on facebook. No matter what you are trying to prove, you'll find 'evidence'.

and we can really believe that odyssey was just a small launch issue that was resolved soon after it's may release like has been stated by braben in interviews with investors.

This is hardly something on par with believing celebrities eat babies and lizard people run the government.
The only leap in logic you need to make is that fdev made a business call that benefits their bottom line at the expense of some of their customers. Something they've done at the onset of this dlc, and something many believe they simply did again with consoles.

 

[thistle]

So the efforts to optimize for eventual release on console in your mind means pretending in your head how that's all is going to perform and just assuming it is bad and leaving it at that?
That's not how things work. Why optimize assets and such for console if you're not actually testing? Just like how I can't run the game on an intel nvidia machine and just assume that same performance is what I can expect on an AMD radeon one, you wouldn't make a call on console performance based on PC performance. You'd be testing on console to get a baseline and then periodically to see if any updates have gotten you closer to the finish line so you can set as early of a console release date as possible.

The implication of that quote is that work was being done for consoles for testing ...not that PC optimization was being done and that this was work "to optimize and eventually release on consoles".

No, my point is you are looking for deceit and so you will find it. Doesn't matter if it's really there. Even when the facts are almost certainly boringly unhelpful to you.

You're seeing what you want to see.

You're claiming deceit because fdev said we're working on pc, and will return to console later. A quote from Dr Ross gives you just (barely) enough ammunition to claim they were lying, because some console work was being done. Well, sure.

You're looking for something that could support your conspiracy, and taking one quote as an absolute and others which might possible maybe help you, and BLAM! we have an apparent difference (but not really).

It's very very silly.

I don't even think you believe there's a conflict here.

The basis of a game not being EOL'd ... more than the sales you get on a game that is EOL'd. Keep in mind the people seeing adverts about upcoming odyssey on consoles are likely not elite forum readers with the background that the chances of that upcoming DLC are fairly grim and the developer is refusing to give any updates for months leading up to the holiday buying season.

What adverts were people seeing at xmas for console EDO?

and we can really believe that odyssey was just a small launch issue that was resolved soon after it's may release like has been stated by braben in interviews with investors.

This is hardly something on par with believing celebrities eat babies and lizard people run the government.

No, not at all, but it's still a conspiracy, unsupported by evidence or logic.

The only leap in logic you need to make is that fdev made a business call that benefits their bottom line at the expense of some of their customers. Something they've done at the onset of this dlc, and something many believe they simply did again with consoles.

Again I'd apply occam's razor to both. What is the most likely explanation for the EDO launch? It was launched too early, I'm not sure there is any other suggestion, it's not a controversial view, or a conspiracy.

However for the console delay and then cancellation, what is the most likely explanation? Year-long conspiracy to eke out small numbers of sales knowing it was gubbed from the start? Or a genuine attempt to get it out as they suggested (as Kay clearly believes), with a brutal business decision being made post holidays?

 

[Ian Skippy]

after the thousands of hours of grinding

Let this be a lesson for you: only spend your leisure time on fun things. 2000 hours of grinding at minimum wage equals almost $20,000. You could have visited a dozen countries, become an expert violinist, written a book or two or obtained a master's degree. Getting a lot of fake space money instead in the hopes it might pay off later is... not the best choice.

Grinding is never worth it.