OA's latest on future story.

[Jmanis]

And you have to remember, all you risk in regular bounty hunting is the bounty you had since the last time you docked, perhaps an hour earlier. In exploration, it's literally EVERYTHING you've done ever since you've docked, which can be days, weeks, months even earlier. There are risks, but thankfully they are limited. Stakes are much higher, risk are lower to compensate.

Nothing stopping people plotting a route that periodically has them dump off their data along the way. There's outposts dotted around various nebula. People knowingly do this to themselves... it's just unnecessary "my number is bigger" proverbial-waving at the end of the day.

Combat is no different in this regard.

As for "carebear explorer would be mad lol", I'm sure the chad combat player would be super happy to have to carry a max size scoop, a fsd booster, a landing bay and a DSS on all their ship, with a minimum of 30jump range or otherwise they could fail their bounty hunting. I'm sure they wouldn't cry and scream about it everywhere.
That's sarcasm BTW.

You might be sarcastic here, and while you're also being hyperbolic with some of those points, I see nothing wrong with this.

Ship transfers ruined this aspect of outfitting to the point that fitting combat ships for anything but the most bleeding-edge pvp is a no brainer. Ensuring your combat ship could still get to where you needed to do combat was a critical consideration in your fitting... though that's one of what should be plenty more in the game.

I've long-argued that combat ship fittings should be a balance between raw firepower and offensive/defensive utility... where to cut a long story short, more utility = more options to either secure or escape a target, but less armament/defences, to grossly over-simplify what I mean here.

Again, I will give bleeding-edge PvP (the sort you find in tournaments, not organic PvP) some credit here that you need to put effort into your ships. For all other combat, remove frontal lobe, ship goes brrr.

EDIT: Though I'd happily concede, none of the above would ever happen, simply because FD don't have the fortitude to make the right decisions for the game, and when they do, it's too little, too late. This has been evidenced time and again.

 

[Erei]

Nothing stopping people plotting a route that periodically has them dump off their data along the way. There's outposts dotted around various nebula. People knowingly do this to themselves... it's just unnecessary "my number is bigger" proverbial-waving at the end of the day.

Combat is no different in this regard.

I'm sorry, but the day you have several stations in nearly every system around, but in the black, you will be able to tell me it's the same for combat.

I play both content, and I can tell you already, stations/FC to dump datas outside the bubble are far, very far away from each other. Also, FC eats a chunk of money if you use the facility. It's like giving your bounty to an interstellar factor.

Yes you can wait for ages to cash in with your bounty. I guess ? You can also decide to explore the galaxy with a stock sidewinder and a scoop. Someone did it. Doesn't mean it's expected gameplay and should be balanced around that idea.

You might be sarcastic here, and while you're also being hyperbolic with some of those points, I see nothing wrong with this.

Ship transfers ruined this aspect of outfitting to the point that fitting combat ships for anything but the most bleeding-edge pvp is a no brainer. Ensuring your combat ship could still get to where you needed to do combat was a critical consideration in your fitting... though that's one of what should be plenty more in the game.

I've long-argued that combat ship fittings should be a balance between raw firepower and offensive/defensive utility... where to cut a long story short, more utility = more options to either secure or escape a target, but less armament/defences, to grossly over-simplify what I mean here.

Again, I will give bleeding-edge PvP (the sort you find in tournaments, not organic PvP) some credit here that you need to put effort into your ships. For all other combat, remove frontal lobe, ship goes brrr.

The game is simply not balanced with that idea. Stuff like FdL is a PITA to move around. A krait or an anaconda would just be king.

Plus, the way I see it, the game offer a variety of different content. Like a complete course with all its meal. If I start blending the ice cream with the salad and the steak and fries together, it's not going to taste well. I imagine, never tried.

 

[He$$eeTant]

…that we had to be more involved fuel scooping (such as avoiding solar flares, have high magnetic field areas that mess with sensors etc)….

In the original Elite scooping was harder as it was tricky to see how close you where to the surface as when you got close enough to engage scooping it was just a large white screen. In addition to this it was not at all uncommon to be attacked while scooping and having to manoeuvre and fight that close to the star often ended up with you burning to death.

 

[Jmanis]

I'm sorry, but the day you have several stations in nearly every system around, but in the black, you will be able to tell me it's the same for combat.

I play both content, and I can tell you already, stations/FC to dump datas outside the bubble are far, very far away from each other. Also, FC eats a chunk of money if you use the facility. It's like giving your bounty to an interstellar factor.

Yes you can wait for ages to cash in with your bounty. I guess ? You can also decide to explore the galaxy with a stock sidewinder and a scoop. Someone did it. Doesn't mean it's expected gameplay and should be balanced around that idea.

Exactly my point. Just because people do wait months to cash in their exploration data, doesn't mean it should be expected gameplay.

Spending, what, a day or two in the latest 70ly fotm build or somesuch to cash in the last month's worth of exploration data, or even the last week? Seems like a sane idea to me.

As for FCs, isn't all that DSSA stuff still a thing?

The game is simply not balanced with that idea. Stuff like FdL is a PITA to move around. A krait or an anaconda would just be king.

Plus, the way I see it, the game offer a variety of different content. Like a complete course with all its meal. If I start blending the ice cream with the salad and the steak and fries together, it's not going to taste well. I imagine, never tried.

You're right. It's not balanced with that idea, and the game suffers for it.

Instead of a dynamic, flexible planning landscape, we get a monolithic, homogenous and dull experience. For a game that's all about choice and doing what you enjoy, it sure is inflexible to any sort of variety.

This comes back to FDs lack of fortitude. They're scared of their own product. With nu mining they broke the economy. All it took was a quick change to nerf prices while they came up with a better vision for that aspect. Instead, they let out stew, people established that as the status quo, now that's the expectation. Just the same as the expectation for everyday combat is fitting nothing but dps and tank, and exploration is an empty ship to point at stuff with.

 

[Erei]

Exactly my point. Just because people do wait months to cash in their exploration data, doesn't mean it should be expected gameplay.

It's much easier to cash in bounties when the next station is literally inside the system, or at best a jump away, than when the next station/FC is literally thousands of LY away

And as I mentioned, the FC cartographic thing take a cut out of the profit, which, I think, is not counted for rank. Overall, a penalty bounty hunters are never affected with.

Plus we shouldn't have a game balanced around player made content.


I really don't get why people want to change explorations in that aspect. Most of people posting who openly admit they are not explorers themselves. It seems clear to me most of you don't actually like exploring, which is fine. You want exploring to be more toward what you like, instead. Which is less fine.
Combat or even worse, RNG breakdown because everyone loves RNG screwing you up, is not something the vast majority of explorers are looking for, or want. We have content for it. In fact, most of the content is tied to combat, one way or another. Do we really need more of it ?

 

[HansAcker]

and exploration is an empty ship to point at stuff with

But you won't do much exploration in an empty ship, would you?

Fuel scoop, DSS, SRV hangar, AFMU, optional FSD booster, maybe research/fuel transfer/repair limpet controllers (and the cargo racks to store the limpets). I'd never go exploring without a shield generator, either. A DBX doesn't even fit all the modules I'd like to take with me on a field trip.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

But you won't do much exploration in an empty ship, would you?

Fuel scoop, DSS, SRV hangar, AFMU, optional FSD booster, maybe research/fuel transfer/repair limpet controllers (and the cargo racks to store the limpets). I'd never go exploring without a shield generator, either. A DBX doesn't even fit all the modules I'd like to take with me on a field trip.

If only exploration actually required something more than a Fuel Scoop and a DSS, rather than just filling up slots with things to make the game's least dangerous activity even less dangerous

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

You have to work really hard as a content creator these days in Elite Dangerous, you can base it on assumptions or simply RP as a happy customer

 

[Erei]

If only exploration actually required something more than a Fuel Scoop and a DSS, rather than just filling up slots with things to make the game's least dangerous activity even less dangerous
View attachment 301287

If you go with that reasoning, the only things required for bounty hunting are hardpoints with guns, a shield and that's it. Everything else is to make a not really dangerous activity less dangerous.


It's obvious you are not into exploring. But I like it the way it is, it make for a nice diversion which I enjoy, even though I find it repetitive if I do too much of it.


Also, what's wrong in being not that dangerous ? The stakes are much higher, after all. And it's not like trading or mining is dangerous either.

 

[Ian Skippy]

OA when he was positive toward ED : "I like that guy"
OA when Yamicks was refused an odyssey key : "I like that guy !"
OA when he is afraid for ED future and the direction it's turning : "I really don't like that guy".

Personally I stopped liking him when he started to consider himself a social media brand and decided to become an actor/mirror. This happened way before his 'negativity' though. Years earlier he basically decided to simply mirror whatever vibe he picked up from communities. ED community upset about performance bugs in ED? Obsidian is very upset too! SC community not upset about bugs/performance? Obsidian is sure it'll work out in the future no problem! Neither yamicks nor OA present a genuine opinion. Yamicks is always yelling and cursing because that is what is audience comes for, and OA just regurgitates the latest community vibes, positive and negative. Both are fundamentally disingenious for clicks. Check OA's earlier vids if you want to hear how the dude really sounds.

Then again, that is how the game works. Not many ED streamers with solid subscriber numbers who dare to be honest either way.

 

[Jmanis]

But you won't do much exploration in an empty ship, would you?

Fuel scoop, DSS, SRV hangar, AFMU, optional FSD booster, maybe research/fuel transfer/repair limpet controllers (and the cargo racks to store the limpets). I'd never go exploring without a shield generator, either. A DBX doesn't even fit all the modules I'd like to take with me on a field trip.

It was a hyperbolic statement. Fuel scoops, DSS, SRV, an FSD booster and an AMFU is hardly taxing to the brain cells when it comes to planning. Shield generators get dropped by many explorers, and research limpets? Glad you think they're important, but you're an explorer. Explorers in the general sense laugh me out the door when I even make that suggestion, so it's not a sentiment shared by your peers to be sure (and lets face it, for the pitiful credits-only reward you get for the samples, why would you bother?)

Fuel/Repair limpets? Besides other players or running an alt, what exactly are you going to refuel/repair?

But let's go further...

• Where's your wake scanner? For those times you want to investigate those lingering wakes.
• Where's your AX Scanner? For those times you want to analyze an unknown organism/entity.
• Where's your cargo scanner? To ensure you aren't wasting limpets on something you don't want to pop the hatch of.
• Speaking of, where's your hatch breaker? When you come across a guardian/human/thargoid/other cache you want to crack open.
• Where's your recon limpets? When you want to override or explore a human or alien security system, disable automated defences, or other mechanisms.
• Where's your repair limpets (I know you mentioned these)? When you want to repair/jury-rig damage to an ancient or humanoid system to render it functional again... could similarly apply to fuel limpets.
• Where's your seismic charges? To crack an asteroid of mysterious and unknown composition, or blow the hatch off something that just won't open the usual way.
• Where's your weapons? To destroy systems inside an unknown superstructure in order to explore it further, or charge some sort of ancient system.

Obviously there's a problem with the above; these simply don't exist. And that's pretty trash.

It's much easier to cash in bounties when the next station is literally inside the system, or at best a jump away, than when the next station/FC is literally thousands of LY away

Only thousands of LY away hey? Seems easy enough (and yes, I've do that pretty regularly, 5,000 LY is what I'd cover in a day)

And as I mentioned, the FC cartographic thing take a cut out of the profit, which, I think, is not counted for rank. Overall, a penalty bounty hunters are never affected with.

Oh well. "Credits are meaningless anyway" wails the community (but not me).

Plus we shouldn't have a game balanced around player made content.

Errr.... what? Who's talking about "player made content" here?

I really don't get why people want to change explorations in that aspect. Most of people posting who openly admit they are not explorers themselves. It seems clear to me most of you don't actually like exploring, which is fine. You want exploring to be more toward what you like, instead. Which is less fine.
Combat or even worse, RNG breakdown because everyone loves RNG screwing you up, is not something the vast majority of explorers are looking for, or want. We have content for it. In fact, most of the content is tied to combat, one way or another. Do we really need more of it ?

Nobody's "changing" anything with this sort of suggestion. It's just adding on. If that's not your thing, great, don't do it. You can keep licking planets and getting whatever joy that brings.

But not having this sort of content outside the bubble and in the is one of the most dramatic shortcomings of this exploration aspects of this game, and a severe lack of vision from FD with regard to the game. Your claim that "most content is tied to combat" is just further validation of that lack of vision; that they can only come up with "combat" as the outcome to a majority of the implementations of this shows a substantial lack of creativity.

Right now, all the activities I've linked various videos to above, for the most part, exist in such niche and uninspired implementations, resulting in a couple tonnes of, what, Tea? Maybe a single Thargoid Probe at most? If this is all that yields from these activities which, well, I can't begin to imagine how much effort it must have taken FD to produce them, then it was a complete waste of FD's effort which would have been better spent elsewhere. Why do this if you're not going to capitalise on that investment in a substantial way?

Maybe it's just you don't want to taint the title of "exploration" with this sort of content. So let's not. Let's call it deep-space salvage operations, as a new suite of activities to undertake. There's literally no excuse for not finding the hulk of a megaship drifting 30,000Ly away in an unexplored system these days. FCs are crawling the galaxy, and we, the commanders, merely "rent" them. Who knows how many other private enterprises must have gone astray like what has become a frequent report in Galnet. Heck, an entire station in the form of Jacques did it to a distance of 25,000Ly away. This is all supported by the lore now that FD let the FC genie out the bottle.

And the reason this sort of content needs to exist out in the black is because of that sense of discovery when you do come across something uncommon, temporal and exciting, that isn't just some wander in the back yard affair... the sort of thing you can only find after a 10,000Ly stomp that isn't just yet-another-ELW with some paramaters slightly different to the ones you found in the bubble. Some people get their kicks from that, and that's fine, but it's short-sighted to pretend that there's not a huge swath of untapped potential underneath that which FD's much-touted procedural magic couldn't exploit these sorts of mechanics to generate action for those that seek it. Again, this is not seeking to undo exploration as it currently stands, only to bring more activities to the universe.

 

[zimms]

So many mind readers around.

 

[Erei]

TL, DR : I don't like exploration much, so I would like it to become something else. Explorers are obviously wrong to enjoy it the way they enjoy it.

I to would like to see stuff like research limpets to get more used (I mean, any use), and there are issues with exploration as is. But the lack of combat or freacking RNG f*** you is not part of it.

 

[Jmanis]

TL, DR : I don't like exploration much, so I would like it to become something else. Explorers are obviously wrong to enjoy it the way they enjoy it.

I to would like to see stuff like research limpets to get more used (I mean, any use), and there are issues with exploration as is. But the lack of combat or freacking RNG f*** you is not part of it.

Where an i asking for RNG interference to current exploration?
Where am i asking for changing what explorers currently enjoy?
Where am i asking for combat instead of current exploration?

All I've asked for is in addition to.

Tl;dr you can't be bothered reading. Quote where I've suggested any of that.

 

[Jmanis]

Repair limpets to fix your hull for when you crash into an 11g world. A really common suggestion in Exploration subreddits along with light weight shield generators.

Fair. I forget that repair limpets can target yourself, but mostly for the fact i use them so rarely (and never when exploring).

 

[Erei]

Where an i asking for RNG interference to current exploration?
Where am i asking for changing what explorers currently enjoy?
Where am i asking for combat instead of current exploration?

You are not the only one posting there, and I my post was general, not targeted to you, which is why it was not quotting or mentioning you.

All I've asked for is in addition to.

We have a limit in what a ship can carry. The DBX for example have 8modules total. -1 DSS-1shield-1scoop-1landing bay, that's 4 left. And I only listed the ESSENTIALS, that wouldn't even be a comfortable exploration. Otherwise, -1FSD booster, -1another landing bay if you lose your first SRV. That's 2 slots left, a 2 and 1 size. Which is likely going to be fitted with a repair limpet + cargo bay, or, should they made research limpet interesting, then that'd be the limpet + cargo bay.

And here we are, all the modules slots are filled. What do you want to add already ?


Not everyone explore in anaconda with room to spare.

 

[Ian Skippy]

TL, DR : I don't like exploration much, so I would like it to become something else. Explorers are obviously wrong to enjoy it the way they enjoy it.

I to would like to see stuff like research limpets to get more used (I mean, any use), and there are issues with exploration as is. But the lack of combat or freacking RNG f*** you is not part of it.

One of the key advantages of a huge gameworld is you can cater to different people. I see no issue with having a 'dangerous' region in space, where all kinds of unexpected stuff can happen. Including combat. You can still keep a couple hundred billion systems for the 'zen explorers'.

To each his own, but to me it seems odd that deep space exploration is about the safest profession in the galaxy.

 

[Erei]

One of the key advantages of a huge gameworld is you can cater to different people. I see no issue with having a 'dangerous' region in space, where all kinds of unexpected stuff can happen. Including combat. You can still keep a couple hundred billion systems for the 'zen explorers'.

I agree. Thargoid space should be dangerous. You can already be hyperdicted, but they just don't care. As a newb, I was scared to go there.
I think that's enough.

Plus you can always play in open. If the lamentation of "I lost all my datas to a ganker" post that appear relatively frequently are to be believed, it add some amount of risks.

 

[Jmanis]

You are not the only one posting there, and I my post was general, not targeted to you, which is why it was not quotting or mentioning you.

Fair, and apologies. There's been a fair few discussions where people don't quote with a response so i made a big assumption there.

We have a limit in what a ship can carry. The DBX for example have 8modules total. -1 DSS-1shield-1scoop-1landing bay, that's 4 left. And I only listed the ESSENTIALS, that wouldn't even be confortable exploration. Otherwise, -1FSD booster, -1another landing bay if you lose your first SRV. That's 2 slots left, a 2 and 1 size. Which is likely going to be fitted with a repair limpet + cargo bay, or, should they made research limpet interesting, then that'd be the limpet + cargo bay.

And here we are, all the modules slots are filled. What do you want to add already ?


Not everyone explore in anaconda with room to spare.

My argument is you shouldn't be fitting out to do everything.

Think about mining. Despite my misgivings with its current state, you usually fit to go laser mining or core mining. Not both, and you can handily optimise for either- or scenarios.

Conversely, going back to my points about combat ships, ship transfers and utilities... fitting for combat should be a performance web over, essentially, raw dps/tank, range/mobility, and (what ED lacks) electronic warfare subsystems. That last one is a whole other field, so i won't go there, but ship transfers wrecked the aspect of the game that meant deciding between the ability to bring the fight to where it's needed, and winning a fight faster. Particularly for anything CG related, a pure tank and damage fit is complete overkill, and there's more than enough fighting capacity to drop in favour of fuel scoop/ tanks and an FSD booster if that's your jam.

I'd put up that if you're actively looking for the sorts of things in proposing, a similar three- way ability web happens, drawn over:

• planetary discovery
• system engagement (i.e manipulating caches/ hacking etc); and
• anomaly/ biological research (research limpets, ax scanners and such)

The ranges and time you spend out would vary with each activity.

I'd also add, there's no reason you couldnt dual purpose things. Hacking open hatches with a recon limpet could be substituted with blasting it open with seismic charges or weapons, at risk of reducing the beneficial outcomes you might be seeking... but nonetheless, it's a choice for the player.

The only thing absolutely necessary to get anywhere is a fuel scoop. Everything else is geared towards your preferred activity.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I agree. Thargoid space should be dangerous. You can already be hyperdicted, but they just don't care. As a newb, I was scared to go there.
I think that's enough.

Except it is tiny. Thargoid space has been fully explored. If they made 1% of the galaxy thargoid space that would be perfect.

Plus you can always play in open. If the lamentation of "I lost all my datas to a ganker" post that appear relatively frequently are to be believed, it add some amount of risks.

I fear that risk has been greatly over-estimated. Besides, gankers are zero issues to any half-decent pilot anyway. See a hollow icon? Press 'j'. Done. Explorers only die to gankers when they are either incredibly daft en go to hotspots with their data, or incredibly unlucky while not paying attention.