Elite turning into Eve?
- Thread starter Genxav
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Is that it? I totally admit re-reading this thread is giving me mixed signals. Can we get a quick TL;DR from someone following if not too much trouble? Went to a party and drama happened, so home tipsy. Screw drama ppl and their soap-opera bull, O wait...
I don't think the op is talking about the game play. I think they are discussing the attitude particularly on the forums of some of the posters and the way they will attack a player personally rather than discuss points constructively.
I could be wrong there but that's the way I am reading it.
I don't agree with the OPs conclusions though and I think ED is definitely a far more friendly and helpful forum than any other I have known and a million miles from the toxic Eve forums. I spent six years there hoping that both forums and game would improve it's attitude but it just seemed to me to worsen over the years. But this is only my own feelings and opinions. I am sure some ex Eve players here will feel completely different based on their own experiences.
To the OP as regards game play, I am an early backer and I remember when alpha came out and I was following the forums I saw some of the things happening that made me think both game-play and forums were heading towards the Eve model, and I commented on the forums that I was worried about ED's direction at that time. But as the game progressed and became more about the full game than the PVP part that the early Alpha seemed based on, my fears were allayed more and more and the forums became a good place to be as well as the game.
But the OP is entitled to feel the way they do, but if it is primarily certain parts of the forum that make them feel this way, such as the subjects they follow, then may I respectfully advise them to choose different subjects to follow to those that have created this feeling in them.
There does seem to be a few posters that have the EVE General Discussion attitude when it comes to posting, from the very first post in a thread they are rude and abusive. However I am not entirely sure they are a product of EVE as a game, sure that game does attract them thanks to its policies but it did not create them. Take a look at the World of Tanks forums they are pretty much the same, Lord of the Rings Online, World of Warcraft etc etc.
Strong moderation, both from moderators and players reporting, at the start of a games' life is the key to stopping this behaviour before it takes hold.
Strong moderation, both from moderators and players reporting, at the start of a games' life is the key to stopping this behaviour before it takes hold.
Correct it did and I have seen no one claiming that everything was bad in EVE. It also did alot wrong and unfortunately some of those features are the ones that some posters want to introduce to ED.
It's a reflection of society in general. Look at the lowest common denominator behaviours and see those replicated in gaming forums all over. I've just been playing Diablo 3 for a few months with a group of friends and in-game chat there in any of the groups is woefully inarticulate, abusive, and cliquey. The only group with any sort of civil attitude was the Reddit group - which incidentally I've noticed across a few games these days.
Moderation will help, but ultimately the essence of a game will dictate what players it will attract. Skinner-box style grind fest games (like WoW, EVE, Diablo, WoT, and any free-to-play) are usually without fail the worst offenders. ED at the moment has an older, educated, player-base, as it's filled with people who've invested in it from the early stages, it won;t stay like that until the Skinner-box crowd come and go...
So did World of Warcraft, but it doesn't really help this game much. Very different gameplay styles.
The things that made both these games last NEARLY as long as they did was the strong social infrastructure they employed and a good backbone to support it on. Content that encouraged players to gather together and pursue greater goals that couldnt be achieved alone, and elements that were enhanced by working together with a friend even in normal gameplay.
If Frontier really cant draw from the elements that make the most popular MMO's as long lived as they have been, then ED is in trouble. And neither of those games have particularly strong game play elements, especially for a modern game, so ED has a huge lead on them right there alone. If it gets the other half of the equation right, it'll have a long fruitful road ahead of it.
All this talk about Eve's "Toxic" community is ridiculous, and quite frankly I am sick of hearing it. Yeah, on the General Discussion forums it can be full of trolls and toxic comments, but in the 6 years I played Eve I have met some of the most epic space moments I can remember, as well as met the most amazing people in the gaming community.
Sure, the game's play style does lend itself to toxic play sometimes. But that doesn't define the player base. And the toxicity I have seen against Eve in these forums almost left me afraid to even mention that I play Eve, so what is that saying about this community?
But the main reason it's easy to try to compare the two games is because Eve is one of the best sci fi space games created in the last 10 years. And hopefully Elite Dangerous can be the next great sci fi game.
I was willing to put my money on it, and if the community here really expects there to have NO eve players in this game, you are fooling yourself. And comments like "leave your baggage behind" is the last thing you want to say if you really want this game to succeed. But that's just my opinion.
Sure, the game's play style does lend itself to toxic play sometimes. But that doesn't define the player base. And the toxicity I have seen against Eve in these forums almost left me afraid to even mention that I play Eve, so what is that saying about this community?
But the main reason it's easy to try to compare the two games is because Eve is one of the best sci fi space games created in the last 10 years. And hopefully Elite Dangerous can be the next great sci fi game.
I was willing to put my money on it, and if the community here really expects there to have NO eve players in this game, you are fooling yourself. And comments like "leave your baggage behind" is the last thing you want to say if you really want this game to succeed. But that's just my opinion.
I don't know anything about EVE but, from what I've read on the ED forums, it sounds like a really unpleasant experience and, as such, a game I would prefer to avoid. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, as long as ED feels like the original, then I'm happy. Also, the feeling of community spirit within the ED forum is excellent. I think some forum members (me included) could learn a thing or too from those who have been here for a while!
Couldn't agree more with those points Jeff. The problem with EVE is the CCP designed the game in such a way that corp theft was relatively easy and thus (as you know), it led to all those things you point at in the above. The effect of that toxic in-game environment was to have it reflected in the EVE forums. Of course there were/are folks who found that kind of playing environment extremely appealing, extremely stimulating and of course, they are now here as well. :/
The thing is, all those players who want to "run things" will get extremely bored extremely quickly when they find that the game won't let them "run" anything at all, and will most likely go back to playing games that let them do that.
Hello everyone, I've been reading the forums for a while and i'm starting to fear that the ED community is starting to morph into EVE mentality, besides there seem to be quite some old EVE players around (not that i'm saying its bad)
I'm former eve player, almost 3 years, started mining, then pve then pvp, joined a corp, participated in the Fountain War, not part of the goons and the rest is history.
Anyways, i see that people have a tendency to blind themselves when others post constructive criticism, or mention thing that they don't like or work well for them.
Attacking the OP in a subtle or direct manner, is not going to help, and I don't think its correct or wise to act in such manner, we are helping in a way to develop a game with our feedback and we as testers are starting a new community, with a new game, we should not fall into the "brat" attitude present on EVE online.
Also, i don't understand why some people like to go against instead of being constructive, acting like they have the last word on the subject. Only the devs have the last word on anything in the game.
One recent example : Mining
"First of all, mining is not perfect, and if you find it fun that is you, 1, a minority". Then when somebody posts something about it, stating elements that could be improved, many jump to contradict them saying things like " Mining is perfectly fun for me" . The thing you are a minority, and you know its not perfectly fun. So it would be better to be proactive and think for the community instead of being a selfish "brat"?
Some would tend say "NOOO TRACTOR BEAMS!!!, BRABEN SAID SO!(and its not realistic)" Well then why not think of alternatives, instead of staying with the basic stuff? That would be constructive.
Anyways, is Elite going to the EVE(L) side ? we should think about what is happening around here, vets or not, Elite should not be like and old game but a new experiences for all. ( being that the game is hard, or easy) Good gameplay is good gameplay, and bad gameplay will be always bad. Stop trying to mask things for your benefit and instead help the Devs improve them with ideas and constructive criticism.
Tschüss
The worst blind is the one who doesn't want to see
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Its funny how some people just read TRACTOR BEAMS
Well more clarification around, my post title is "Elite turning into EVE?" @deusx_oph
I'm not trolling.
I'm a bit concerned about some of the behavior in the forums that reminded me of EVE community.
I wanted to share my concern.
I'm not comparing or discussing gameplay between Elite and EVE. @Rankaze
I'm not saying Elite is the same as EVE @Rankaze
I'm not saying that we should have TRACTOR BEAMS or the game to be dumbed down. @Krait_79
I'm not saying mining is (fun/not fun) - it was and rehash example of comments said out there. @Krait_79 @Niewinter
This little experiment of a post shows some of the automatic defensive reactions I've seen around in other posts. So far the whole idea in the post was missing, and the comments are only attacking or dissing what i'm was not talking about.
The main point is the behavior of the community turning eve like and not being CONSTRUCTIVE ,absolutely nobody commented about it.
BTW I've been since beta 1
I totally agree with this. It's been weird watching the constructive discussions reliably ebb away and a lot of really bad 'discussion' happening on the forums lately. I think in early beta the community was largely of one creed and everyone generally had a clear idea of the direction the game should be going in. I believe as it has become more popular and you've had other types of people come into the community, there have been lots of new threads popping up about concerns for the direction the game is taking not shared by the "core" demographic (the older nostalgia lot, most of which backed since early alpha), so it's caused an increasing amount of disagreement.
The problem here though is that group 1 and group 2 don't seem to be able to remain detached, and more specifically, I don't think group one likes the vibe of "that lot, comin' in ere with these wild ideas, tryna turn OUR game into something it's not supposed to be". It's a bit pitch forky imo. Not because their stance isn't sometimes valid, I mean, debate is debate and everyone will have differing views. I'm speaking entirely about the manner in which certain types in here go about expressing and enforcing their ideals and opinions. Discussions about popular topics almost always quickly devolve into circular gibberish because the old timers are a notably stubborn lot and basically won't seem to consider entering debate about a lot of things and it all becomes much more about who's opinion is "right" (wink wink) than something that would open into a discussion about mechanics. I'm actually quite surprised at the level of passive aggression, condescension and snide snipers in this community. There's a bit of an arrogant undertone to certain sub groups here, much more so than I've seen in other communities really. At least some other places people actually have it out. It's a little bit more acceptable (relatively speaking) than people that play the whole 'gentlemanly' card, attempting to appear reserved and well mannered, while very evidently sticking knifes in left right and center the first opportunity they get when someone shares a view that doesn't gel with their personal tastes. It's all rather insidious.
Anyway, no, I don't think this game will turn into eve, but it will (and does, and has done for a while already) certainly have it's own special kind of corruption in the culture, just, less bull at a flag and more snake in the grass.
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I have read this and would like to respond as I feel community building is very important. I left these forums over six months ago and did not participate because of the mentality that was/is present in the forums. I used another account at that time and have created this account when actually purchasing the game. The reason for this was a fresh start(not because of trouble) and the need for privacy as I used a name I am known for and wanted to keep my job and my gaming separate. I can look at this issue from a little bit of a different perspective as I am a dev myself and I am involved the communications with my customers and helping to build a healthy robust community is one of my goals I have achieved.
This is a great community with great communication, but "with conditions" that must be met or a verbal run down will be the result. I just wanted to say that that the people who exhibit this behavior might want to re-evaluate and remove the defensive posture as it is "very" easy to see and feel and is one of the major issues that drive people away. These people know exactly who they are and should take responsibility of building a healthy thriving community as seriously as they take "protecting" "their" game and allow diverse discussion and encourage this instead of verbal attacks and attempting to discredit anything that doesn't fit "their" idea of what is discussed here.
I hope these things can be achieved. I feel ED is special and worth my time. Time is something I have very little of these days with my work requirements.
Salute all of you and looking forward to gamma and launch.