This should sound as a warning to have proper alpha and beta phases before releasing your next expansions (if that's ever gonna happen)
Statistically, it will always be empty, even if you gave everyone who ever existed their own system it wouldn't get much over quarter full, but having quantified that the numbers don't correlate to what would be considered to be 'empty' in the meaningful way you're trying to present. Though sometimes I wish the forum could be a little emptier of doom trolls.
This game is SO broken on SO many levels... it's easy to be concerned about the state and the future of the game. What you call "trolls" are actually former fans who enjoyed the game a lot and somehow FDEV managed to disappoint them on such a grave level that they got frustrated with the whole thing. EVERYBODY on the forums here wants this game to be great...
10 minutes ago: I sneak behind a guard... make sure NOBODY sees me... use the tool to stealthkill him... and immediately have a bounty for murder on my head. Wow, what a great game with working, plausible and credible mechanics! And that is even just one of the smaller issues! Imagine a game, where it is a "smaller" issue that the WHOLE stealth mechanics don't work AT ALL lol
I would honestly like to believe that however some of the most consistantly negative posters make me doubt it.
Oh good lord,
it’s not a bug it’s a feature?
I remembered that they sold this broken mechanic as an feature so it’s a broken gameplay feature which seems to be buggy,
i have enough reading today, some peoples wouldn’t see a train when it Stand direct in front of them.
nice afternoon
Stealth =! getting away with murder.
I try not to paint with a broad brush and would appreciate it if others didn't paint what I say that way either. I get that there are some disenfranchised players out there and I'm not that different a person that I couldn't be one of them. I make a choice to reject the doom and don't look to others to tell me what I should think or feel about something, but try to look at the greater picture as objectively as possible.
Some basic premises of Elite for me are:
1) It's a longstanding game franchise that's not going anywhere, even if this iteration of it ends. Which I don't think it will because Frontier have chosen the continuous development path for Elite Dangerous which suggests that Elite Dangerous is representative of the overall Elite franchise and will continue to be.
2) Elite is the sort of game where you make it what it is. It's more Minecraft than Final Fantasy.
Taking point 2 into account and elaborating upon it..
3) Elite is still in development and therefore it is to be expected that due to limited time/resources priorities will force x or y to be put on the back burner. That doesn't mean forget about x or y part of the game you would like to see fixed/fleshed out/implemented, it just means that it all can't happen at once. And don't get mad because what you thought was x turned out to be y and will be coming after what x turned out to be.
4) Point 3 obviously opens the door for those who are impatient or those who wish to sow discontent/drama for whichever reason they choose to do so - and I will grant it isn't necessarily malicious in nature, but is one of the reasons why I would suggest recognizing it for what it is when presented with x this or y that rant by anyone, and keeping point 3 in mind.
5) However, criticism is good, suggestions are good. Though all of that couched in Frontier bad this, Elite Dangerous bad that is engaging in point 4, so remember point 3.
6) All backers of the Kickstarter are 8+ years into this, it's a long-haul and massive in scope project (see point 3). There are going to be victories and setbacks but the bigger picture is seeing Elite Dangerous developed into the game that many of us all saw the potential of as a result of the Kickstarter etc.
7) Trying to cause damage to the franchise/company while claiming one wants the game to be great is illogical if that truly is one's goal. This doesn't negate point 5 - reframe the criticism from negative (you suck because..) to positive (it would be better if...) while still getting your point across.
8) Frontier do actually listen and when they see sufficient demand with it being possible given time/resources, they have responded. Not always, I will grant, but then isn't it a bit much to expect anyone to? Some want x which is at odds with those who want y, there is always a losing side at any given point and ultimate it's Frontier who make the call, though again, they have shown that they will reverse some decisions given appropriate feedback.
And lastly,
9) No-one truly knows what Frontier's plans/priorities for the game are at any given point, so far they have delivered a lot for the investment put into it, but there is still a lot to do. Frontier are a company, not a charity or your parents. They operate on an income basis and without it Elite surely will die (see point 7).
Is any of the above unreasonable or white knighty?
Sometimes things don't work the way they are expected to, that isn't the same as not working "AT ALL". Maybe it was a glitch or maybe you just weren't as thorough as you thought? I don't know what you want me to say, or are you just trying to seek some consensus/validation?
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While a conscious tradeoff decision must have been made with the new terrain generator, accepting the sacrifice of some aspects which were inherent to the old, along with the gaining others with the new, and as such, entirely: "by design", there are some things I would absolutely label: "glitchy"; Noteably the amount of seams produced by the "new engine" (it's as much on the rendering side, as on the generating one, I would guess).
Right from "alpha" we had all these sometimes mile-high "kerbs" between patches of ground, seemingly depending on things like distance (presumably a floating point precision matter, as well as blending...), transitory LOD differences between neighbouring patches, and influence from bespoke POI terrain modifiers, all together resulting in edges that do not align; And the big ugly pixels on the scanner, which plot the grid even when you don't notice it in the terrain itself.
It seems to me that with update 11, I see a lot more gridding than before, on the smaller scale as well (about metre-wide spacing).,when on ground, as if there were gaps between smaller patches of ground mesh - possibly between individual tri pairs. Some may not be bothered by "mere visual" things like that, but I certainly hope to see them addressed at some point, hopefully without needing to complicate relevant shaders -- we want the game to improve, don't we?
Heck - I don't even know how the normal of the penultimate vertex along edges is handled. where you get the accute break which produces the vertical "kerb" thing, that pads gaps between non-aligning patches; Presumably it is simply not calculated with the last one taken into account, or you'd have had wierd soft "shadows" along every seam...
Right from "alpha" we had all these sometimes mile-high "kerbs" between patches of ground, seemingly depending on things like distance (presumably a floating point precision matter, as well as blending...), transitory LOD differences between neighbouring patches, and influence from bespoke POI terrain modifiers, all together resulting in edges that do not align; And the big ugly pixels on the scanner, which plot the grid even when you don't notice it in the terrain itself.
It seems to me that with update 11, I see a lot more gridding than before, on the smaller scale as well (about metre-wide spacing).,when on ground, as if there were gaps between smaller patches of ground mesh - possibly between individual tri pairs. Some may not be bothered by "mere visual" things like that, but I certainly hope to see them addressed at some point, hopefully without needing to complicate relevant shaders -- we want the game to improve, don't we?
Heck - I don't even know how the normal of the penultimate vertex along edges is handled. where you get the accute break which produces the vertical "kerb" thing, that pads gaps between non-aligning patches; Presumably it is simply not calculated with the last one taken into account, or you'd have had wierd soft "shadows" along every seam...
Those are holdovers from Horizons, they were in that too. I haven't noticed it much recently, but it's the same for Horizons, sometimes it would be a problem and other times not. It might be a server client synchronization problem?
Sure I want the game to improve, but in general having a threshold of 'no' up until some random condition is satisfied and trying to convince others to engage in the same thing isn't going to help that happen either, especially when it becomes a moving target that always seems to end with a 'no' no matter what gets fixed.
Holdover? Maybe? I saw a lot of patches LOD-popping in Horizons, too, of course - our computers can only generate the terrrain so fast. after all, as well as other old artefacts, such as the infamous patches with "apparent deviating albedo" (whatever it may have been that produced those), but I can't recall ever seeing this alignment issue (although I have of course seen the "kerb" when for one reason or other the camera has appeared beneath the surface; I've just never noticed it when above) -- maybe it just got "lost" in the "random", "bland", "soft noise" character of the old terrain...
Server sync doesn't sound likely. The terrain is generated on the player's machine, and you can easily move back and forth, and see the terrain morphing, with the edges meeting up on close approach; I am more inclined to think something along the lines of consequences of rounding numbers/not clamping them/insufficient floating point precision...
Not sure how to parse this - sorry; Not my first language, and I am sure I'm missing some context that makes it all obvious, but anyway: If one want to be sure to never get anything: Then never ask. The least constructive thing I can think of, is to attack people's not being complacent.
I've encountered places on Horizons planets where it looks like the joins of the surface are misaligned and will have to be jumped over like a kerb. Then there was the occasions where you could end up driving through the 'surface' to see the underside of the planet. Probably just glitches that occur once in a while that we will encounter in Odyssey still.
I don't know for sure, my thought was more of a coordinate mismatch in relation to the terrain generation, possibly tied into the rounding of numbers, but you are most likely right, even more so if you are experienced in the technicalities of it.
That wasn't necessarily aimed at you, there are a contingent of those for whom the goalposts forever move so they can always talk down Odyssey and try to prevent people moving on from Horizons where they themselves staunchly refuse to move from. I wouldn't say I'm attacking people for caring enough to have a position, just the merits that is the foundation of their position. It's up to everybody of course, but IMO sticking to Horizons is not at all a constructive way to see Elite improve, it's quite the opposite.
LOL. It's a video game, not a country or a church.. It's not my job to improve Elite by giving the company money like they are some sort of charity. If and when they offer a product that I want for a price I'm willing to pay, then I'll buy that product. It's up to them to make that product, not me.
But I'm personally not opposed to anyone else buying and playing Odyssey. Go for it! Buy lots of Arx too, for the cause
“As soon as the coin in the coffer rings, the soul from purgatory springs.”
rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
This works both ways and at the same time it's not the obligation of the company to keep the product on the old version, when they release a new one.LOL. It's a video game, not a country or a church.. It's not my job to improve Elite by giving the company money like they are some sort of charity. If and when they offer a product that I want for a price I'm willing to pay, then I'll buy that product. It's up to them to make that product, not me.
But I'm personally not opposed to anyone else buying and playing Odyssey. Go for it! Buy lots of Arx too, for the cause
“As soon as the coin in the coffer rings, the soul from purgatory springs.”
So complaining about EDH eventually being merged with the new code is also a bit LOL
You're right, of course, if for no other reason than I signed the EULA. That doesn't mean I won't complain about it, but it's a "I don't like this!" complaint rather than a "How DARE Frontier do this!?!?!" complaint.
I hope that Horizons stays as-is, mainly because Frontier has already committed to maintaining a legacy copy of Horizons on consoles, but I don't expect it. And if the day comes when Horizons is replaced with Odyssey Lite, worst case is I really don't like it and uninstall it. I will still have gotten my money's worth out of Horizons Legacy.
And if Horizons does become Odyssey Lite, I'm willing to give it an honest try. If nothing else, it'll be a free (limited) demo of Odyssey tech. Who knows, it might just surprise me.
Well, maybe I have, too, and am just temporally confused - wouldn't be the first time (but I really can't recall much of these particular sorts of things from the past, whereas now it is a daily occurrance). No matter - two wrongs never made a right. :7
No more, or at least no more than very little more experienced than any other randomly selected player; But being a VR player, I suppose it does become just a tad harder for me to ignore e.g. how decals (just like in any other game) are hovering one or several decimetres above the surface they are supposed to be "stickered" onto (which is done to avoid so-called Z-fighting: That effect when you are a bit away, and the limited precision given by the bit depth becomes insufficient to reliably determine which mesh is in front of the other. POIs in Horzions spawn kilometres up in the air when one fly down toward them, and switches to LODs that hover lower and lower in altitude, in steps, as one descend - each step typically being a completely different layout of geysers (whose steam particles persist for their life span, after switches), or braintrees, or whatever, to the previous - it all just looks ridiculous; This is something I definitively do not miss (...although I do miss having a bit of draw distance).
Orbit lines jittering wildly from the same floating point precision limitation, when you approach something that is distant from the current origin, before parenting switches over the approached point; And orbit lines (or anything) that creep into view from behind the far clipping plane (most annoying when you see stuff at the corners of the frustum, which disappear when you turn to look at them, because of the difference in hypothenuse length) , are also examples of these limitation issues that shouldn't disturb, but do. Tons of little things like this, which all too easily become: "can't unsee" matters, for anybody who has started a 3D modelling program once in their life (EDIT: Don't get me started on convex/concave quads, or UV related distortion
)... :7 (Heh, I knew a guy who wouldn't go to see movies in cinemas, because he couldn't get himself to not notice and get annoyed by the splices between reels of film... )
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LOL. It's a video game, not a country or a church.. It's not my job to improve Elite by giving the company money like they are some sort of charity. If and when they offer a product that I want for a price I'm willing to pay, then I'll buy that product. It's up to them to make that product, not me.
But I'm personally not opposed to anyone else buying and playing Odyssey. Go for it! Buy lots of Arx too, for the cause
I never said it was a country or church and they don't have to be for my point to be valid. I was answering OP on the point of wanting to see the game improve. May I reintroduce an important part of the quote you missed off:
I don't see that being an incorrect statement to make, though I do agree with you that the onus is on Frontier to deliver a product that warrants purchase. Though without retreading oft traveled lines of discussion, Elite is a product with an ongoing development path, more like something like Photoshop than, say, Cyberpunk 2077. Space Engine is another example of an ongoing project that iterates over time, btw; has Space Engine got fluid water yet? Keep meaning to check back in on that one.
Okay, if you're saying that I should buy Odyssey before I demand that Frontier adds new features like full atmospheres, water worlds, etc, then I can see the logic of that assertion. For you, improving is adding new features. For me, improving is fixing the current features.
In other words, we might actually agree with each other after all. It's one of the reasons I've resigned to the idea that if I want Horizons to remain as-is, I have to accept it as-is. I can't expect Frontier to continue to add new features to Legacy Horizons, which is their stance for consoles. I can't expect to keep getting new features without paying for them. To be honest, I was kinda surprised at how much stuff was added to Horizons after I bought it, but that was the developer model back then.
It can be both; addition and iteration. This is in my mind the more accurate way to describe Elite's development. But yes, any major features like full atmospheric planets and/or ship interiors etc.. will be in the next expansion as they are beyond the scope of Odyssey as mentioned to us.
To a degree, I've said elsewhere that the arc of development is sequential. As far as Horizons goes, nothing will be added, only maintenance from here on out, anything new will come as additions to Odyssey. The planetary tech was a Horizons addition, it was the ice planet update if you remember? They liked it so much they rolled it into the Odyssey expansion as an galactic overhaul and said it would come to Horizons once Odyssey was out being that it was slated for Horizons originally. Obviously this is all before the bruh-hah surrounding Odyssey and it's admitted issues, some of which are due to the planetary tech, but the planetary tech is the last addition to the Horizons tier of Elite Dangerous.
Also, recall the complaints about how the base game never got the Beluga, Alliance ships etc? That's because they all came to Horizons, I had thought they were for the base game at the time till I was directed to the wiki, they were only released for Horizons as that was the next iteration of Elite Dangerous, once I had Horizons I never launched the base game barring a very few occasions that I needed to spawn in orbit, but anyway, it's already happening with the Scorpion SRV in Odyssey, and will continue to do so until the next expansion is released.
Frontier ended up releasing more additions for the Horizons expansion than they originally planned, some of them were intended to be included in the next paid expansion.