Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[VR jefranklin18]

I've logged nearly a thousand hours into it, primarily because it's a chill building game with a soundtrack I sometimes find myself dancing to. It's the kind of game I'll play when I have stuff I need to pay some attention to at home, but not so much that I can't react to problems in the game.

It's also a rather rare game where I felt like chasing the achievements and challenges.

I recently decided to buy the "Below and Beyond" and "Martian Express" DLCs. I've found "Below and Beyond" to require far too much micro-managing for the niche it fills in my gaming queue, while the "Martian Express" adds monorails to the game, which have just enough disadvantages to make the decision to use them an interesting one, rather than a no-brainer.

I like Surviving Mars and have most of the DLC.

If you like chilled building simulators that can be on a second screen while working from home, I would recommend Dawn of Man. Obviously completely different time frame (stone age) but I tend to swap between the two.

 

[Old Duck]

There is some of that old promises disappointment in this thread, no doubt. But it is not a binary split (now vs then) for the audience as you suggest. The evolution from positive to disappointed has been rolling on for 10 years and still is. The “positive” new backers of today are the disappointed ones in [X] years etc.

If I were to buy SC (and I haven't yet, so that says something), I would be going in with no expectations other than getting my money's worth out of the experience before hitting that "Is that it?" wall. I think this is different than resting one's hopes and dreams on a game, something I admit doing with Elite, which I'm sure has swayed me to being more negative towards that title than I otherwise would be.

Regarding disappointment, I've already felt with with SC, and I've never even played it. I was captivated by their "NPC Trading Simulator" presentation they did some years ago. That's when I first thought, "Holy cow, this is going to be amazing!" But then IIRC it never happened and probably never will. All smoke and mirrors and empty promises. To this day I'm disappointed by that broken promise. But it definitely taught me not to see SC based on what it's promised to be, but rather as just what it is now. That said, I'm not going to stare through Chris's window with binoculars and report on every thing he does every single day like @Agony_Aunt does, LOL There's disappointment, and then there's just plain weird "whatever that is".

 

[Skizomeuh]

resting one's hopes and dreams on a game, something I admit doing with Elite, which I'm sure has swayed me to being more negative towards that title than I otherwise would be.

Basically CIG's business model.

 

[VR Golgot]

So I do wonder, sincerely, how many people jaded over Star Citizen are early adopters? In other words, are there any in this thread who love to hate SC who only recently tried the game for themselves for the first time? It just seems to me that people new to SC are much more positive about it, but I think they are buying into what SC is, not what SC was promised to be 10 years ago when it was first pitched.

I'm not saying that early adopters have no right to be salty. I'm salty that Elite Dangerous is nowhere near what Braben "promised" (and even demonstrated) during his Kickstarter videos (though not enough to complain about 100 times a day for all eternity, LOL). I also see many of the flaws in the way SC is being developed, and there's definitely some mockery-worthy decisions (swirling coffee in your virtual cup is my gold standard).

Anyway, just curious.

For an interesting overview we could turn to the ex 'white knight' Keramz, who now handles a lot of the grey market cash-outs on the Refunds sub:

• "Its a vicious cycle. I see it in the accounts sold. 2 years ago it was a lot of 2012-2015 accounts. Last year it was 2016+. Now its 2017+".
• Every new patch brings a new wave of cash outs (disappointed by lack of progress seemingly).
• NB that he sees accounts as big as $10k about once a month during normal times. (More during waves of community upset etc, such as the recent roadmap culling)

Angry refundianism definitely isn't the preserve of early days backers alone. The size of the expenditure, and amount of time spent waiting for a final product, are doubtless aspects which create the saltiest posters though, for sure.

It's hard to say whether the school of 2018+ will bow out the same way. But anecdotally I certainly saw some very swift, angry refunds in the last year while casting any eye over the 'ED refugees'. A few of the more extreme examples were:

• The guy who spent $500+ on a Banu Merchantman etc, then within a month was calling the game a scam. (And is still very happy to be rude about it ).
• The programmer who claimed to have worked with Chris previously, decided the game was never going to get anywhere, and seemingly gave $2.5k of ships away within a year of getting the game.

Essentially there is still discontent over the game's delivery as it stands. (Quadruply so regarding Squadron 42 )

With the time SC still has to cook in the oven, some new players will doubtless still end up as tomorrow's angry 'early adopters'

 

[VR Golgot]

That said, I'm not going to stare through Chris's window with binoculars and report on every thing he does every single day like @Agony_Aunt does, LOL There's disappointment, and then there's just plain weird "whatever that is".

It's a great soap opera and you're missing out

 

[Old Duck]

The guy who spent $500+ on a Banu Merchantman etc, then within a month was calling the game a scam. (And is still very happy to be rude about it ).

IF I ever buy Star Citizen, it will be at the price of a regular video game. I don't care if it was 100% bug free at a locked 60 fps and delivered on every single promise, I'd never spend $500 (heck, I'm hard pressed to spend $50) on a video game.

No wonder these guys are salty!

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

For an interesting overview we could turn to the ex 'white knight' Keramz, who now handles a lot of the grey market cash-outs on the Refunds sub:

• "Its a vicious cycle. I see it in the accounts sold. 2 years ago it was a lot of 2012-2015 accounts. Last year it was 2016+. Now its 2017+".
• Every new patch brings a new wave of cash outs (disappointed by lack of progress seemingly).
• NB that he sees accounts as big as $10k about once a week during normal times. (More during waves of community upset etc, such as the recent roadmap culling)

Angry refundianism definitely isn't the preserve of early days backers alone. The size of the expenditure, and amount of time spent waiting for a final product, are doubtless aspects which create the saltiest posters though, for sure.

It's hard to say whether the school of 2018+ will bow out the same way. But anecdotally I certainly saw some very swift, angry refunds in the last year while casting any eye over the 'ED refugees'. A few of the more extreme examples were:

• The guy who spent $500+ on a Banu Merchantman etc, then within a month was calling the game a scam. (And is still very happy to be rude about it ).
• The programmer who claimed to have worked with Chris previously, decided the game was never going to get anywhere, and seemingly gave $2.5k of ships away within a year of getting the game.

Essentially there is still discontent over the game's delivery as it stands. (Quadruply so regarding Squadron 42 )

With the time SC still has to cook in the oven, some new players will doubtless still end up as tomorrow's angry 'early adopters'

Grey market isn't refunding. Grey market is finding another gullible fool to load off your problematic "investment" and make it someone else's problem. It is not so much scam-driven rather than out of self interest, but in essence it is a support to the scam. The only downside to the scammer is that they don't see fresh money, but get to keep what was grabbed off the first gulliber.

 

[VR Golgot]

No wonder these guys are salty!

Yes indeed.

The game has most likely relied on these uber-whales to date though. (Going by digs like this through the player account data). So gotta take the salt with the sugar on that front

(It's all just more soap opera for side-line watchers like me . Although I'm happy enough to echo some of their warnings from history...)

 

[Viajero]

I think this is different than resting one's hopes and dreams on a game, something I admit doing with Elite, which I'm sure has swayed me to being more negative towards that title than I otherwise would be.

Not sure why that SC / ED comparison keeps popping up (not directed at you personally here). SC is not just about resting one´s hopes and dreams. Those hopes and dreams have actually been fricking sold for almost half a billion dollars and still being sold as we speak with no delivery in sight. So far 10 years on and counting. Whereas in Elite they are, for the most part, only sold to you once they are ready and you even have the option of waiting for reviews, not liking it and even not buying it if you dont like what you see.

I would dare to say the negativity, failed expectations and disappointment in one is a tad more natural (and justified) than in the other.

I am a bit miffed that the second generation of Tesla roadsters has been delayed multiple times but hey my hopes and dreams can wait, it is their product and money invested after all. But I am actually outraged at the fraud perpetrated by Theranos or Enron. These kind of comparisons seem to stem from some misplaced sense of equity but are of completely different order of magnitude and lead nowhere.

 

[fzfq3m]

I think they are buying into what SC is, not what SC was promised to be 10 years ago when it was first pitched.

I hope they know and are full aware that what they are “buying” today is not necessarily what they will receive tomorrow!!

After all, CIG has no problem whatsoever in removing or adding “features” for the sake of a “better game” or because those features don’t align with their “current” design for the game.

I have not read the latest ToS but I’m quite sure that is bullet proof at this point

 

[Mole HD]

So I do wonder, sincerely, how many people jaded over Star Citizen are early adopters? In other words, are there any in this thread who love to hate SC who only recently tried the game for themselves for the first time? It just seems to me that people new to SC are much more positive about it, but I think they are buying into what SC is, not what SC was promised to be 10 years ago when it was first pitched.

I'm not saying that early adopters have no right to be salty. I'm salty that Elite Dangerous is nowhere near what Braben "promised" (and even demonstrated) during his Kickstarter videos (though not enough to complain about 100 times a day for all eternity, LOL). I also see many of the flaws in the way SC is being developed, and there's definitely some mockery-worthy decisions (swirling coffee in your virtual cup is my gold standard).

Anyway, just curious.

I backed ED and SC at roughly the same in 2015...of course I'm salty

Saying that, I refunded my original SC account at the beginning of 2017...bought back in during 2018 to a lesser degree. As much as I don't play much ED these days, certainly not since ED:O ... ED has never once been uninstalled even after 5,500 hours

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

I backed ED and SC at roughly the same in 2015...of course I'm salty

Saying that, I refunded my original SC account at the beginning of 2017...bought back in during 2018 to a lesser degree. As much as I don't play much ED these days, certainly not since ED:O ... ED has never once been uninstalled even after 5,500 hours

Daft question, I've started suffering intermittently from a bit of sound stutter (particularly in bigger ships/stations).Any idea if there's a known solution to this?

 

[ECity]

Hat tip to Pixelate on SA:

SQ42 Update

"We knew early on that, to hit the fidelity we expect for Sq42, we would need to do some R&D on bedsheet deformation. This work is currently underway and, if successful, will allow the AI to deform their sheets when entering, exiting, or sleeping inside them. This is a challenging assignment and expands the complexity of the feature. For example, what happens to the sheets if the AI needs to exit the bed in an emergency?"

The Roberts family keeps cashing those big checks as this work trumbles along.

 

[VR Golgot]

SQ42 Update

I CAN'T TELL WHO'S TROLLING ANYMORE

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/uig6hn/_/i7cdxu0

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/uig6hn/from_the_latest_progress_report/i7cdxu0/

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/uig8bd/_/i7chnhi

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/uig8bd/squadron_42_monthly_report_april_2022/i7chnhi/

 

[Intrepid3D]

Worth watching.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjtX_VTjtBQ

 

[VR Golgot]

Worth watching.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjtX_VTjtBQ

Yeah watched it. Saying that 64bit is one of the 'Star Engine' changes that divorced SC from the Cryengine support train is fair enough. (IE no Vulkan or Ray Tracing updates etc, which Cryengine added years back etc).

Almost everything else about it is a strange hodge podge of 'a little dangerous knowledge' though . As is the way with Ray's stuff.

(It doesn't help that he's just making things up either. ED also uses 64bit co-ordinates etc )

 

[StuartGT]

Yeah watched it. Saying that 64bit is one of the 'Star Engine' changes that divorced SC from the Cryengine support train is fair enough. (IE no Vulkan or Ray Tracing updates etc, which Cryengine added years back etc).

Almost everything else about it is a strange hodge podge of 'a little dangerous knowledge' though . As is the way with Ray's stuff.

(It doesn't help that he's just making things up either. ED also uses 64bit co-ordinates etc )

That's not the right attitude to have, Golgot. It's a positive video about SC so it has to be correct and factual

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Spectrum talking about the bedsheet tech

SQ42 Update: R&D For NPC Bedsheet Deformation... Seriously? - Star Citizen Spectrum

Ugh... Just read this month's SQ42 update and the part of needing to do R&D on bedsheet deformation for NPCs... R&D a bedsheet... and also implying they might not get it right the first time......

robertsspaceindustries.com

Don't ask why there is some delay on SQ 42 - Star Citizen Spectrum

The level of quality will be impressive... sheets deformation ! We knew early on that, to hit the fidelity we expect for Sq42, we would need to do some R&D on bedsheet deformation. This work is...

robertsspaceindustries.com

the fact is if they are making bed sheet interaction then that means most of the game is entering final things. The fact that they are bringing up majority of chapters into verticle slice state tells me that we can expect squadron very soon probably starting not this year Christmas time but starting next Christmas.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Ok, this is funny as hell. I've now seen at least 3 people claim that because CIG are working on bedsheet physics that SQ42 must be almost done.

They really don't have a clue about CIG do they?

 

[varonica]

Spectrum talking about the bedsheet tech

SQ42 Update: R&D For NPC Bedsheet Deformation... Seriously? - Star Citizen Spectrum

Ugh... Just read this month's SQ42 update and the part of needing to do R&D on bedsheet deformation for NPCs... R&D a bedsheet... and also implying they might not get it right the first time......

robertsspaceindustries.com

Don't ask why there is some delay on SQ 42 - Star Citizen Spectrum

The level of quality will be impressive... sheets deformation ! We knew early on that, to hit the fidelity we expect for Sq42, we would need to do some R&D on bedsheet deformation. This work is...

robertsspaceindustries.com

The thing with the bedsheet tech is this, no-one will ever see it, it's all about NPC's when they go to bed and get up and how the bedsheets deform, because they want the NPC's to be just like players but worse, in game full time, locked in their room while not working, with deformable bedsheets that no player will ever see. I mean while you have theoretically hundreds of players walking around in bases and stations using server and PC resources, will there also be similar numbers of NPC's with deformable bedsheets, using up server and PC resources? I mean what game ever animates stuff like this that a player never sees? Why is it necessary to have deformable bedsheets for NPC's in locked rooms? Maybe hundreds of them? What madness is this?