Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

SC is a special case where they are actually trying to keep up with new developments in graphics and stuff as they make the game, trying to match what current new games are going to be doing when/if it is released, that's a never ending treadmill. At some stage you have to release, knowing that the moment you release it's going to be falling behind new games being developed. I don't see a rosy future for purchasers if they expect a release any time in the next few years if they keep to the same habits, and indeed it might end development before actually being released!
And that’s the primary reason why every playable alpha and early access game I’ve ever played has waited until the end of the development process to get their graphics looking good… assuming they have the budget to do so. You don’t need high end models when you’re still developing your game mechanics, game loops, and other primary content. Once the stuff is in place that will keep players playing, and talking about your game to others, then you’ll know how much resources you have left for the fluff, both in terms of funding and your players’ available computer resources.

It’s also why Star Citizen, despite having squandered over half a billion dollars and counting, may look like better than modern $50 million game graphically, yet is continually outperformed by tiny indi-games, both in mature game loops, and in game stability. The latter focus on the “difficult but cheap” gameplay, while Star Citizen continues to focus on the “easy but expensive” graphics, leaving more important the gameplay to languish in limbo. And then they inevitably redo the graphics repeatedly due to the changing demands of gameplay, new ideas that are incompatible with the current models, the fact that what’s considered “AAA graphics” changes with time and technology, or mostly due to Chris Roberts changing his mind about what he wants something to look like again.
 
You are not going to believe this, but I found secret evidence that Star Citizen ships really have weight to them.

Star_Citizen_ships_are_heavy.gif
 
...and the winner is:


1. Duke Nukem Forever: 1996-2011 (15 years)

dukenukemamerica-25507
Pity that they only considered released games for the list. Star Citizen (2011-20??) is already poised to overtake the second spot already, and development has barely started. ;)
 
SC cant happen. Sure that's not a fact known yet, but some of us, if like me, see it that way. They can not finish 1 star system. Do you think they haven't tried to?

No, I don't think they've tried to. That's part of the problem. Chris Roberts is far too focused on making his visual spectacle that he hasn't even invested the necessary pre-development work on figuring out how what he wants to accomplish can be done... or even if it can be done.

Do you think with 500 million bucks, they haven't given it their best shot?

Nope, I don't think they've given it their best shot.

Their best shot would've been doing the necessary prototyping and testing before taking people's money, and adjusting their ambitions according to those results. And no, a machinima video made by other people does not qualify as a pre-Alpha "prototype," no matter how much Chris Roberts pretended otherwise, during his Kickstarter campaign.

Their best shot would've been developing their core game loops and technologies before hiring hundreds of artists to flesh out their universe. Lets not even get into paying for A-List Actors (most of them not even professional voice actors) to do mocap in their custom made motion capture studio of all things. Doing the latter first is why most of what Chris Roberts had captured has become unusable, and needed to be redone... at the very expensive UK-based Imaginarium, rather than at a mocap studio in LA where Chris Roberts, CIG's primary development studio, and the actors he'd hired all lived. Which doesn't make a lot of sense in hindsight, considering how much money Chris Roberts spent on making his own mocap studio in the first place. :rolleyes:

(Oh, right... Chris Roberts was living out his rockstar Hollywood Director fantasies with other people's money again.)

So no, I don't think they've given it their best shot. What they've done is, as you said:

They just cant do it. Sell ships? Make more money than many many other game studios? Sure. No problem. Make things work? Impossible. Yet they still market "the dream" as if it is possible. That's where it's a scam.

Making Chris Roberts' "dream game" became a tertiary concern once he realized how much money was rolling in by selling concepts, rather than a released game.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tpvxsJAZPk&ab_channel=MadonnaHistory
 
Oh hi Ant :)

Return of 30K ? For sure it's one of your whishes about SC. Too bad the 30K are still away...

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/uh8avw/30k_crashes_very_frequent_in_317/

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/uht7vq/gotta_love_the_30k_bug_coming_back/


I have played 3.17 now for a few hours after taking a break since the whole "noise" debacle, and in those few hours, I have experienced more 30k than in the whole time I played 3.15/3.16.
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  1. More 30k this week than I have since 3.15 dropped
  2. I have been Running , bunkers, Investigation and search this week approximately 10-12 missions..only completed 1.
  3. I was stuck on a server Yesterday with a few folk and the only thing working was chat, waited about 30 mins for a 30k as I had a ton of loot, but no it never happened.
  4. Some bugs that I have not seen for ages have returned.
Maybe i have been unlucky but having been here since 2013, I think this at this stage of things i don’t expect a patch to be so bad.
source

I've had several 30k's last evening in a span of an hour, pretty much just decided to call it a night at that point. As someone with little prior experience with the past of the game, it is safe to assume that I consider the previous patch more stable in that regard.
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Logged in
Tried again
I guess that's enough SC for today
 
It’s also why Star Citizen, despite having squandered over half a billion dollars and counting, may look like better than modern $50 million game graphically, yet is continually outperformed by tiny indi-games, both in mature game loops, and in game stability. The latter focus on the “difficult but cheap” gameplay, while Star Citizen continues to focus on the “easy but expensive” graphics, leaving more important the gameplay to languish in limbo.
Case in point, I recently jumped back into X4 Foundations after a winter hiatus. While that game can look beautiful, more often than not its graphics are relatively primitive compared to even Elite, and definitely Star Citizen (though it's still better than EGS in my opinion). However, I get so immersed both the gameplay and the world itself that hours just go by in the blink of an eye. I was recently at "space dock" getting some work done on my ship, and the news ticker was streaming the latest buildup of an enemy fleet in a neighboring sector of space. Next thing I know, construction work begins on every free medium pad in the dock as the Terrans start building up their own fleet in response. After construction completes, this new fleet of corvettes launched in a way that instantly reminded me of this:

Source: https://youtu.be/g6aD-m7Cw84?t=39


It was a jaw-dropping, immersive, "holy cow!" moment. And if I wanted to, I could follow that new fleet to the war front, and eventually (it's a "cold" war now) see and even partake in a massive space battle.

Yet the graphics in X4 really aren't all that special. Probably a good thing, as my PC struggles enough rendering hundreds of ships in lower-quality graphics, so if this game did look like Star Citizen (wow!), it would require a $5000 gaming PC to run fluidly on. But where the graphics fall short, my mind makes up the difference.

So why am I interested in Star Citizen? I'll save that answer for the next round!
 
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if this game did look like Star Citizen (wow!), it would require a $5000 gaming PC to run fluidly on.
FWIW even that kind of PC cannot run SC properly (frame rates dip below 50fps in some places) - from personal experience.

And I second the "gameplay > graphics" approach: there are good reasons why FTL is regarded as one of the greatest games of the previous decade, for example, and graphics are definitely not part of it. I had a lot of fun with 3030 Deathwar Redux which is a 2D space game - and that's a good example on how they cut the unnecessary fluff and concentrated in an immersive, engaging gameplay. Immersion is really a "x factor" that needs a lot of small cues here and there to achieve its effect - Warren Spector was notoriously a master of this (Deus Ex, System Shock..) for example (or Looking Glass studios). A very good example of top notch immersion is Frictional Games productions like SOMA or Amnesia. Granted SOMA looks really good too, but it's not UE5 level of jaw dropping (or Death Stranding).

The danger of relying exlusively on looks for CiG is their engine is now looking outdated compared to what is now found in UE5 and such. This means the "wow effect" from nice shiny graphics will fade in favor of what's actually behind the surface, that means gameplay, and that's where SC fails hard at the moment.
 
Case in point, I recently jumped back into X4 Foundations after a winter hiatus. While that game can look beautiful, more often than not its graphics are relatively primitive compared to even Elite, and definitely Star Citizen (though it's still better than EGS in my opinion). However, I get so immersed both the gameplay and the world itself that hours just go by in the blink of an eye. I was recently at "space dock" getting some work done on my ship, and the news ticker was streaming the latest buildup of an enemy fleet in a neighboring sector of space. Next thing I know, construction work begins on every free medium pad in the dock as the Terrans start building up their own fleet in response. After construction completes, this new fleet of corvettes launched in a way that instantly reminded me of this:

Source: https://youtu.be/g6aD-m7Cw84?t=39


It was a jaw-dropping, immersive, "holy cow!" moment. And if I wanted to, I could follow that new fleet to the war front, and eventually (it's a "cold" war now) see and even partake in a massive space battle.

Yet the graphics in X4 really aren't all that special. Probably a good thing, as my PC struggles enough rendering hundreds of ships in lower-quality graphics, so if this game did look like Star Citizen (wow!), it would require a $5000 gaming PC to run fluidly on. But where the graphics fall short, my mind makes up the difference.

So why am I interested in Star Citizen? I'll save that answer for the next round!
Stop making me want to buy X4! I have too much in my Steam queue backlog as it is! ;)
 
FWIW even that kind of PC cannot run SC properly (frame rates dip below 50fps in some places) - from personal experience.

And I second the "gameplay > graphics" approach: there are good reasons why FTL is regarded as one of the greatest games of the previous decade, for example, and graphics are definitely not part of it. I had a lot of fun with 3030 Deathwar Redux which is a 2D space game - and that's a good example on how they cut the unnecessary fluff and concentrated in an immersive, engaging gameplay. Immersion is really a "x factor" that needs a lot of small cues here and there to achieve its effect - Warren Spector was notoriously a master of this (Deus Ex, System Shock..) for example (or Looking Glass studios). A very good example of top notch immersion is Frictional Games productions like SOMA or Amnesia. Granted SOMA looks really good too, but it's not UE5 level of jaw dropping (or Death Stranding).

The danger of relying exlusively on looks for CiG is their engine is now looking outdated compared to what is now found in UE5 and such. This means the "wow effect" from nice shiny graphics will fade in favor of what's actually behind the surface, that means gameplay, and that's where SC fails hard at the moment.
Oh yeah, System Shocks dynamic music did a lot. Not sure if it was the first but one of the first in "real-time" game I experienced.
 
Oh yeah, System Shocks dynamic music did a lot. Not sure if it was the first but one of the first in "real-time" game I experienced.
The original Halo on the Xbox did the dynamic music to perfection...so much so, I can still remember it. The Library and the first contact with the flood is forever marked as one of my greatest moments of gaming :eek:
 
I presume that is part of the price to pay for the gains in performance?

I’d think it’s more the babby static-server-meshing tinkering. (Replication layer / streaming / persistence changes etc). Kinda unsurprising to see instability. They’re preparing to rip out the old T0 networking and get the v2 version in ;)

On performance improvements I’d say the asset distance culling looks like the cheekiest ingredient in the recipe ;)

 
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I posted a few days ago my 3.17 gameplay experience. I also play-test each patch and even play the events and try all aspects. Thinking now about posting videos of these gameplay tests...

"you cannot even complete a simple game loop without encountering lethal bugs" is absolutely false in my case.
I'm able to complete numerous missions, earn money and I encounter very few lethal bugs.

Oh hi Ant
About 30K I should be lucky because I haven't got one since 3.17 release. As usual, you are very competent to collect what you want to collect but your are unable to see by yourself what the real state of the alpha is.
 
The original Halo on the Xbox did the dynamic music to perfection...so much so, I can still remember it. The Library and the first contact with the flood is forever marked as one of my greatest moments of gaming :eek:
The original? Had PC version too, right. I only member a long bridge to drive a car over. I guess I didnt really connect with.
I think I particilarly resonated with the SShock 1 theme. It was electroic music in the pure sense but had the drive I fancy with music.
 
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