The one the Empire found on one of their planet, they were primitive. I forgot their name. They wiped them out. Officially, it was "an accident". You know, like Marlin death
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The one the Empire found on one of their planet, they were primitive. I forgot their name. They wiped them out. Officially, it was "an accident". You know, like Marlin death
Wasn't aware of that species. Sucks to be them I guess.
As for all the negativity about humanity remember all the good things anywhere come from us. We define good and bad.
Where the barnacles are. We're three nebulae into the pattern at this point, but it's also been highlighted in that previous GalNet I linked. Each time we move in and start smashing up barnacles, they retaliate. I mean, if nothing else we could at least try to figure out how to farm them sustainably rather than just looking for a new nebula to invade when the old one runs dry.
It's an error to assume human morals or decision models. It doesn't mean we should disregard patterns that emerge because they're aliens.
Ah, now this is a distinction I should make (it probably doesn't help that I keep referring to "we" as if all of humanity is involved, but I'm trying to stop myself derailing this into conspiracy theories). Those individuals are not to blame. There was a lack of communication and information, and it would be unreasonable to expect them to make these deductions at the outset.
The problem is that when this information became available, the authorities still didn't act on it. Even in the early days, there was a very clear pattern: military ships carrying Thargoid tech got attacked. Everyone else got left alone, even if you started blasting away. First it was exclusively Federal ships, who had been secretly smuggling it back from the Pleiades for some time. Then the Imperial convoys, who also moved into the Pleiades and started blockading barnacles.
The response to this was to build a bunch of stations in the Pleiades, kill a bunch of Thargoids, and fill those stations with Thargoid tech and meta-alloys. This was extremely dumb and, by some strange coincidence, those stations got attacked. And then they did it all over again, several more times, whenever the supply of meta alloys started to dry up.
There's the saying about incompetence and malice, but eventually I came to the conclusion that they can't be this incompetent. They know why it's happening, and it's the cost of doing business. It's like those Aegis starports were setup deliberately to provoke an attack. But that's just a crazy conspiracy theory. I'm sure there's no secret group or entity manipulating Aegis into doing "stupid" stuff, like fill a megaship with vast numbers of Guardian artefacts in the centre of Thargoid territory.
Anyway, yeah. Some people are to blame, but it's not the pilots they ordered to do it.
Rainbro has explained this all far better than I could, via text at least.
Ever since we've known that Thargoids consider space with Barnacles in it to be theirs, that should've prompted a sensible firmware update to the computer systems so it would mark that out clearly, just like it does for systems with the surface sites in.
I never said the Thargoids weren't wrong in how they're going about things, I just said that we're the ones causing them to respond in that way. Repeatedly. People are either too stupid, or more likely too invested in "haha let's plunder the alien stuff" to actually stop.
It's a basic diplomatic courtesy, if you want to establish a ceasefire with another group who are known to be very territorial - after a conflict - you withdraw your assets from what they consider to be their territory and then they do the same to you. We're the aggressors and the only ones who can actually stop the whole madness.
Anybody working on a scout team involving Thargoids should be briefed on the facts, so that's not on the scout team, that's on the people that sent them for not knowing what they were doing.
It is an error to project human ideas onto an alien species, but this entirely matches up with just about every facet of their behaviour we've seen so far, it's all fully explainable with this model. Except for the snatching of escape pods, but we did the exact same thing to them and did horrific experiments on the ones we did capture, so that partially explains that.
Ever since we've known that Thargoids consider space with Barnacles in it to be theirs, that should've prompted a sensible firmware update to the computer systems so it would mark that out clearly, just like it does for systems with the surface sites in.
I never said the Thargoids weren't wrong in how they're going about things, I just said that we're the ones causing them to respond in that way. Repeatedly. People are either too stupid, or more likely too invested in "haha let's plunder the alien stuff" to actually stop.
It's a basic diplomatic courtesy, if you want to establish a ceasefire with another group who are known to be very territorial - after a conflict - you withdraw your assets from what they consider to be their territory and then they do the same to you. We're the aggressors and the only ones who can actually stop the whole madness.
Anywhere with Barnacles they consider their territory, we know this.
Anybody working on a scout team involving Thargoids should be briefed on the facts, so that's not on the scout team, that's on the people that sent them for not knowing what they were doing.
It is an error to project human ideas onto an alien species, but this entirely matches up with just about every facet of their behaviour we've seen so far, it's all fully explainable with this model. Except for the snatching of escape pods, but we did the exact same thing to them and did horrific experiments on the ones we did capture, so that partially explains that.
I was there, back in the beginning, and no where near anything that was marked as 'theirs' or near a barnacle world or anything at all.
All I know I was gun running near Lave when thargoids ripped me out of witchspace and proceded with their attack on my ship.
I never fired first, I was more like "what!" then had to dodge thargoid fire and somehow get the hell outa town.
They had the first shot, by but god, we're gonna have the last
Bill
<<<Veteran of the first thargoid war back in '84
Another war which we also started the first time.
"Melt the aliens down." - Veliaze, 2849.
It's interesting, but flawed.
Goids exist in systems with no barnacle sites. So even if we did map them all we still would be in "their" territory where they still react hostilly.
What you are preaching is to blame humanity for everything and demand total appeasement with an agressive and unreasonable race.
The key is unreasonable. They can not be reasoned with. So why are we ceding them anything? It's like saying a rabid dog luved near our house. We don't just back off and hope it stays in its hole, thats a problem you solve by killing the dog.
If goids were reasonable it would be different. Then we could have an accord. Lacking that either we domesticate them or eliminate them, for the good of humanity.
It is for me not about if the thargoids are "good" or "bad", same for humans. Humans are facing an opponent that could surely wipe us out with ease. The reaction of the Leaders are not reasonable. When facing an opponent with the possibilty to annihilate humanity (what the thargoids refuse to do for now for unknown reasons) waging war is the dumbest solution at all. We should try to negotiate or if thats not possible to retreat, so we dont upset the thargoids further.
Not quite. Firstly (and irrelevantly) it's the regions with the barnacles in, not each individual system. There are uncolonised systems in the bubble, and yet they're still "in the bubble", right?
More importantly, they don't react in a hostile manner to just being near the barnacles or in that region. They react negatively to people blockading and smashing up the barnacles, and then gathering up the meta alloys and other Thargoid tech. That's not something you can do by accident as the result of an incomplete map.
As for the rest, I don't believe it can be said that they are "unreasonable". We take their stuff, they try to stop us. We kill a bunch of them to stop them trying to stop us, they disable the stations we built in their territory. And so it goes on. They have shown markedly more restraint than we have, and infinitely more than we likely would have had the roles been reversed.
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Yup. The only characteristic we knew of the Thargoids that first time was that they would attack, savagely and without warning.
I scooped many thargons to defray the cost of repairs. I wish we could do that again.
There are clearly a few pro space roach players and groups. I do believe there should be some pro space roach factions with missions, including ones to protect goid ships from the filthy hoomies. It's been asked for, for years though, so, hopes are not high.
I did mostly stop doing AX in open because of the pro goid players. Just acting like vultures hanging around the edge of AX CZ, waiting until your shields are down. Easy to avoid them though, If you enter an AX CZ and see a player not actively engaging the space roaches, just change mode. Unless that is what you want, of course.
I did mostly stop doing AX in open because of the pro goid players. Just acting like vultures hanging around the edge of AX CZ, waiting until your shields are down. Easy to avoid them though, If you enter an AX CZ and see a player not actively engaging the space roaches, just change mode. Unless that is what you want, of course.
Or... instead of just giving up and admitting defeat, we come up with a surefire way to defend ourselves. Like the guardians did. Like mycoid nearly did. Like Salvation's weapons have demonstrated.
They are not unstoppable.
They are unstoppable. Salvations so called superweapon did not kill one thargoid the last time it was used in Sosong, Didio and Novas.
Lets face the truth. Humans have Plot armour. Of course FDev will not follow a narrativ where the humans are not loosing the war. The inconsistency lies in the painting of the thargoids. I hope FDev come up with a very very good explanation why the thargoids behave how they do, and let us win.
I just listend to Drew Wagars Lore Video about the Thargoids again. He stated very clearly that they could overwhelm humans very easily if they wished to do so. I am curious to know why they dont do it.
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That's anthromorphism.
When I say they are unreasonable I mean simply that they can not be reasoned with. We see this in our interactions with them and if you check the codex you'll see the Guardians had the same experience. Goids are agressive.
You say they are reactive only and it's a fairy tale. Just drop into a signal source with scouts. You will get jumped.
Did the Guardians steal their precious meta alloy? Nope they just got jumped. Tried to talk, couldn't talk and cleared the vermin.
Goids aren't people. They are vermin.
Also what with all the people saying they are showing great restraint? Wr nearly ended their species before. We kill them in job lots now. Why do people think the goids are capable of seriously damaging human civilization?
I swear it's a bizarre inferiority complex, some kind of nihilism.
Because it's been refined to repel them, not kill. If you want to see corpses go to Cornsar or the Pleiades, there's plenty there.
We haven't tried. We are in their territory, taking their technology and meta-alloys. What would be the reasonable response, to just let us carry on doing it? Again, if the roles were reversed, and suddenly there were Thargoid convoys coming into the bubble to take our stuff, building infrastructure around us... what would be the "reasonable" response?
Incorrect. It is much the same situation as ours: the Guardians occupied the worlds with barnacles.
Scouts are a reaction to the escalation of hostilities. If you declare war on someone, and then shoot at them a bunch, you can't point to their counterattack and say "look at how aggressive they're being! They didn't even check if our guys in the warzone were friendly or not!". I mean, if an Interceptor shows up at an AX CZ, do you expect people to hang around and wait to see what their intention is?
Scouts first appeared on April 27th, 3304. This is five months after Aegis's first massacre operation against the Thargoids, to pick one random example. After being shot at for five months, they deployed war drones. Sounds reasonable to me, at the minimum.
1) Outside of warzones, their conduct is unchanged. If you're not a threat, they leave you alone. If you've taken their stuff, they give you a grace period to drop it, and then they leave you alone. A grace period! They could decide that humanity has made itself a collective threat and simply open fire regardless - they have ample opportunity to, with the ability to temporarily disable ships. But they don't. Why? Does this behaviour not conflict with the ancient Guardian account?
2) The station attacks. There's a whole list of things contributing to these, but even after all the events of the last few years, they only disable the stations. The death toll as a result is markedly low, especially when compared to the NMLA attacks that use the exact same damage model. They could tear the entire station to shreds, we're helpless to stop them once they get going. But they don't. Here's the GalNet from the very first station attacks.
They neutralize the immediate threat, then go for the cargo holds and retrieve what is theirs. And then they leave. Here's the Gnosis.
The station attacks, and the events leading up to them, are probably the most significant indicators of all of this. There's a pile of evidence to go through, if you'd like to - logs detailing how messing with Thargoid tech sends out a sort of distress signal, Aegis labs with that tech being the first to be targeted... and then the human-tech transmitters that replicated those signals to bring them to the bubble.
Is this not enough for some doubt that maybe there's more to this?
How about the fact that they scoop up escape pods like they're candy? I suppose that's just them being good samaritans?
As mentioned earlier, it's a fair point, but we've been doing it too for a long time now. That makes it rather useless as justification for anything on its own.
That first sentence makes your entire feelings on the matter very clear. They're a sentient race on an equal technological footing with us, they are not "vermin".
The reason people say that is because they are showing great restraint. If they weren't, any attacked stations would be literally in a million pieces.
It's not an inferiority complex, it's a desire to take some hard truths and realise that we are the vast majority of the entire problem - I'm just sorry that you can't see it from any perspective except your own.
We have tried. Even if we haven't we know the Guardians tried, succeeded in decoding the Goid language and were only met with the same mindless hostility we encounter.
Thargoid
The Thargoids are an intelligent, highly advanced insectoid species that have existed for millions of years. They are the only known extant spacefaring species in the Milky Way galaxy other than humanity.[1] Thargoids are highly territorial and seemingly rebuff all diplomatic overtures with...
elite-dangerous.fandom.com
Goids attack humans, they attacked pilots and ships and stations unaffiliated with the Feds.
They seed worlds with Barnacles which means they aren't quietly defending "their territory" they are expansionist.
If you want to know what a reasonable response looks like, watch the Guardian history. When they found barnacles they studied them, same as us. That's not "theft" there was no one there to steal from. At best its a misunderstanding. A reasonable farmer would talk to the folks taking their crops, or at least respond when they were talked to. Especially when the conversation starters had gone to the trouble of learning their language.
Unreasonable is making demands and refusing to accept any outcome but what is demanded. A total lack of compromise. That is emblematic of Goid behavior.
If you want to feel bad because humanity stumbled into the goids thousands of years ago and could have been nicer when we did it? Ok you are welcome to do so. Heck some folks think we should all feel bad, and be judged harshly, because some lady ate the wrong fruit.
Me I don't much care to blame people who are long dead. I'm not going to accept their actions as my fault because you believe in species wide guilt.
Where we are is at war with a species who adapts slowly and doesn't communicate or negotiate. They just attack. We should take a page from the Guardians and put them down like the evidently rabid bugs they are.