Well Powerplay and Open go against that, and I suspect that FD know they do since player destruction (or anything via legit actions) is not considered wrong.Additionally "Name and Shame" and targeting specific players is explicitly against Frontier's Code of Conduct.
There might be some game elements that might be argued break these rules by cracking the door open a little bit. That's a different topic and does not justify swinging the door wide open.
Frontier Code of Conduct - Frontier Developments plc.
The Code of Conduct will apply to all users of Frontier Development's products and/or services and are designed to provide a friendly and welcoming atmosphere for all users.www.frontier.co.uk
Expose more info about solo/pg player actions in station info
- Thread starter Disemboweled Ego
- Start date
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Open, like Powerplay, is optional - and Powerplay doesn't require players to play among other players either.
Well within that context I deliberately targetted several BGS groups who we causing issues and repeatedly made their BGS lives hell until they learnt the error of their ways. Was this pan modal griefing? Am I bad person Robert? Or am I just playing a game where other people play against me?
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
The latter - as we all have the privilege to affect the BGS, from whichever mode we choose to do so - however no-one is entitled to know what each person does in-game unless the player chooses to permit it.
Then part of me wonders if you can't take the heat, you shouldn't be able to affect the BGS to begin with - frankly its lop sided being able to decouple your identity from your actions and influence either as a player or as a power. But then I am an absolutist.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
There are those who opine that only players in Open should be able to affect the BGS and / or Powerplay, as there have been since the game design was published / Powerplay was announced respectively - the game does not suit their preference in that regard. It's not a PvP game in either case - as neither feature requires any player to play among other players to affect it nor engage in PvP.
So it seems.
The current game elements name and shame the people on the crime boards for doing a limited set of negative actions and the whole discussion is framed like all BGS actions are negative because it's an almost entirely zero sum game. You could also use the very same systems to see who your allies are so you can anti-harass them or whatever it is friends do.
The general idea seems to be that activities should be logged, so that who is doing what and where to whom can be revealed so that if it is one of a particular squadron's members is causing mischief in a system that you have an interest in, then you can reach out for a conversation about behaviour and come to an understanding. Or retaliate in kind, and then come to an understanding eventually. If it is just a random CMDR, then that is fine, they are just playing in total indifference to the BGS and you are not going to interfere with their game play. Right? And many missions can be done via APEX, so the mode is not an issue.
I see a problem.
You check the stats and see that your INF in a system has/is going down. Checking further, you see CMDR Rando has been taking and completing salvage, transport, courier and cargo missions. CMDR Rando may or may not be on Inara, and could appear to be a newbie according to information available. One G3 Maverick suit and an un-engineered Cobra. Unfortunately you have lost INF. Nothing hostile about that is there? Problem is, the #2 faction in the system is gaining ground towards the #1 faction (which you support) controlling the system. So you need to commit to shoring up your position, something that CMDR Rando should be able to see. Fair's fair.
You now find yourself in a situation where there is a steady, even if small loss of INF over the days in one or more systems. You appear to be in a game of whack a mole. No problem, it's just a random, possibly newbie CMDR doing missions they like, totally indifferent to the BGS. So they hop around systems, they are just looking for rewarding missions. Right?
Except, CMDR Rando is or could be a second account owned by a member of a nearby squadron, Mymainenemy, who have decided to undermine you. Even with additional information at your finger tips, they are going to make you put effort into stabilising your INF. As CMDR Rando has no apparent links to Mymainenemy, this is just peaceful activity that is adversely affecting your INF.
So, even with more detailed information about who is doing what where and to whom, it does not help. The only thing that you need to really know, is the INF information so that you can take remedial action as required. On the positive side, contacting CMDR Rando just might be, naughty, so removing temptation is beneficial.
Steve 07.
I see a problem.
You check the stats and see that your INF in a system has/is going down. Checking further, you see CMDR Rando has been taking and completing salvage, transport, courier and cargo missions. CMDR Rando may or may not be on Inara, and could appear to be a newbie according to information available. One G3 Maverick suit and an un-engineered Cobra. Unfortunately you have lost INF. Nothing hostile about that is there? Problem is, the #2 faction in the system is gaining ground towards the #1 faction (which you support) controlling the system. So you need to commit to shoring up your position, something that CMDR Rando should be able to see. Fair's fair.
You now find yourself in a situation where there is a steady, even if small loss of INF over the days in one or more systems. You appear to be in a game of whack a mole. No problem, it's just a random, possibly newbie CMDR doing missions they like, totally indifferent to the BGS. So they hop around systems, they are just looking for rewarding missions. Right?
Except, CMDR Rando is or could be a second account owned by a member of a nearby squadron, Mymainenemy, who have decided to undermine you. Even with additional information at your finger tips, they are going to make you put effort into stabilising your INF. As CMDR Rando has no apparent links to Mymainenemy, this is just peaceful activity that is adversely affecting your INF.
So, even with more detailed information about who is doing what where and to whom, it does not help. The only thing that you need to really know, is the INF information so that you can take remedial action as required. On the positive side, contacting CMDR Rando just might be, naughty, so removing temptation is beneficial.
Steve 07.
In fairness to the posted idea (which I don't agree with) smuggled cargo would not be reported in the detailed info made available to the player base. Only stuff if your ship was scanned. Of course 50 runs with smuggled landmines and you accidentally got scanned 2 or 3 times, given "detailed system data" its not hard to figure out @varonica is a smuggler. So c'mon boys lets go get her! Lets teach her to stay out of our system! With the new cmdr info we can see @varonica is at a mining location today, only two systems away. Easy kill! Ya!
Hey I'm done, you'll probably never see me in your system again, it was a one off when the money was good. This is why it's so silly, 99% of players affecting the BGS for your system are probably there once and never again. Now you can sit there and watch the skies for me all you want, but you are wasting your time, it's game over already!
Actually no. What I was suggesting was for all modes equally. Just whatever you do leaves traces if you either don't care or are sloppy via scans / where you fly. What its doing is coupling NPC eyes (via the scans they do) to in game reports you can see.
Having more information about the BGS to work with would be a good thing. The form this would take is debatable, but the idea is good. Personally I'd like to see local news expanded, it'd be a nice way to get more insight into what's happening in the system. At the very least, make the trade news actually worth something.
The problem here seems to be that this has been framed towards Solo/PG players specifically, which is a great way to ensure that the discussion goes to hell. I mean, if I go to Solo to attack another player group, god forbid that player group have more tools to spot me. That wouldn't be fair.
The above kind of player is a minority, but now because the thread is looking like an attack on all Solo players, they also have normal Solo players defending them. You know, those who just want to play the game singleplayer, not bothered by the multiplayer aspects of the game (like the BGS).
The problem here seems to be that this has been framed towards Solo/PG players specifically, which is a great way to ensure that the discussion goes to hell. I mean, if I go to Solo to attack another player group, god forbid that player group have more tools to spot me. That wouldn't be fair.
The above kind of player is a minority, but now because the thread is looking like an attack on all Solo players, they also have normal Solo players defending them. You know, those who just want to play the game singleplayer, not bothered by the multiplayer aspects of the game (like the BGS).
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
An increase to the existing level of detail in the anonymous aggregated daily data would seem to not be very contentious.
What purpose, other than to attempt to intimidate or otherwise harass, would identification of specific players be used for? If the answer is "to be able to speak with them", remember that players have to give their explicit consent for other players to be able to message them if not in the same instance.
Don't forget the players who actually enjoy the game's mode shared features but who don't like PvP - and don't need to like (or even tolerate) PvP, given that other players being an optional extra means that PvP is an optional extra in this game that no player needs to engage in while affecting any mode shared game feature - which they have the same "right" to do in modes other than Open as those who choose to do so in Open.
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I don't think these suggested changes need to focus on identification of individual commanders, or at least no more than the current game does with things like the bounty board. To answer your question though, if it were to do that, it would give more information about who is behind an attack. That information alone is helpful, even if diplomacy is not possible. I don't see how intimidation or harassment are particularly relevant to this, given what you say about players having to give their consent to be messaged, but I would hope that would be reported like any other instance.
Fair, but unless the proposal is going to somehow introduce PvP into Solo, I don't see a problem there either.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Some seem particularly focused on their desire to identify CMDRs.
When altCMDRs are cheap to obtain, knowing "who" is behind an attack is not a given even if the CMDR name was made available. Not sure an unknown alias for a player is particularly helpful.
It seems, to me at least, that expecting communications from those who feel aggreived by an attack on "their" Faction to a named CMDR attacker to remain within game rules is rather optimistic, if not simply naive. I don't expect that Frontier's decision to require explicit consent from the recipient for players to send them direct messages when not in the same instance was in any way an oversight - more, like the modes themselves and the block feature, based on an understanding that not all players are "fun" to play among.
No more so than there is already, i.e. mode shared features offer potential for (but no guarantee of) indirect asynchronous competition between players.
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Or you can just play solo so you don't have to deal with a bunch of crap from griefers that think the game was created for them to harass you.
I am getting a little angry about the ignorance here. The system is perfect how it is. You have all available tools to your disposal for playing the BGS. Just use them in the right way.
If you can't deal with a single Cmdr, and therefor want to track him down, you should not be doing BGS at all. If a single Cmdr can influence your System, you are just doing it wrong. BGS is time consuming. So the time to get in touch with a single human is better spend on some inf missions to counter that. The danger comes from organized efforts of langer groups. Again, when you are not able to recognize them, don't do BGS. Some Cmdrs are even posting openly their mission log on INARA! Really, Gentleman, there is nothing more simple to know who is operating against you. Just invest time and do some research. I can't believe it... i am doing BGS for 6 months now what i assume is a very short time.
Get creative! Its all out there for you to use. Think outside the box and do some "cutthroat galaxy" stuff. Use lies, infiltration, mercenarys, false promises, credits, observation to your advantage.
Your system faction looses inf and you can not explain it?
Be aware of your surroundings. Who has an interest in your system? The PMF 50 Ly away? Noooo. It must be one of the three PMF backed by squadrons in your neighbourhood. Wich of them was aggressively expanding in the past? Do you have your informants placed to spy on them? Is a neighbooring system taken over in an blitz operation shortly? What does their squad ethos say?
THIS gentlemen is playing the game! Not looking at stats that some nice game developer publishes for you because you are to lazy to figure it out yourself. Unbelieveable.
If you can't deal with a single Cmdr, and therefor want to track him down, you should not be doing BGS at all. If a single Cmdr can influence your System, you are just doing it wrong. BGS is time consuming. So the time to get in touch with a single human is better spend on some inf missions to counter that. The danger comes from organized efforts of langer groups. Again, when you are not able to recognize them, don't do BGS. Some Cmdrs are even posting openly their mission log on INARA! Really, Gentleman, there is nothing more simple to know who is operating against you. Just invest time and do some research. I can't believe it... i am doing BGS for 6 months now what i assume is a very short time.
Get creative! Its all out there for you to use. Think outside the box and do some "cutthroat galaxy" stuff. Use lies, infiltration, mercenarys, false promises, credits, observation to your advantage.
Your system faction looses inf and you can not explain it?
Be aware of your surroundings. Who has an interest in your system? The PMF 50 Ly away? Noooo. It must be one of the three PMF backed by squadrons in your neighbourhood. Wich of them was aggressively expanding in the past? Do you have your informants placed to spy on them? Is a neighbooring system taken over in an blitz operation shortly? What does their squad ethos say? THIS gentlemen is playing the game! Not looking at stats that some nice game developer publishes for you because you are to lazy to figure it out yourself. Unbelieveable.
What kind of "heat" solo or PG operator can get? Even if they go and thrash some PMF and its members know about who did it.
'Heat' is BGS pressure on what they might control in return. Not everyone does, but in the context I'm thinking in they almost always do. In PP this would be more along the lines of which powers did the UM.
Which is lovely until you have a territory thats 400 systems (or more) in size, dozens of PMFs (all with allegiances), Powerplay BGS overlaps, PP itself etc to manage. Having more information in this case would make this level of the game more enjoyable since you are in game more and less on Excel.I am getting a little angry about the ignorance here. The system is perfect how it is. You have all available tools to your disposal for playing the BGS. Just use them in the right way.
If you can't deal with a single Cmdr, and therefor want to track him down, you should not be doing BGS at all. If a single Cmdr can influence your System, you are just doing it wrong. BGS is time consuming. So the time to get in touch with a single human is better spend on some inf missions to counter that. The danger comes from organized efforts of langer groups. Again, when you are not able to recognize them, don't do BGS. Some Cmdrs are even posting openly their mission log on INARA! Really, Gentleman, there is nothing more simple to know who is operating against you. Just invest time and do some research. I can't believe it... i am doing BGS for 6 months now what i assume is a very short time.
Get creative! Its all out there for you to use. Think outside the box and do some "cutthroat galaxy" stuff. Use lies, infiltration, mercenarys, false promises, credits, observation to your advantage.
Your system faction looses inf and you can not explain it?
THIS gentlemen is playing the game! Not looking at stats that some nice game developer publishes for you because you are to lazy to figure it out yourself. Unbelieveable.