Reports Received: Capital Ships Preventing Commanders From Receiving Combat Bonds

[SasaThargoidsHunter]

Bit dramatic, IMO
No one it's being punished. Or at least i dont feel like being punished.
And Hydras are over my paygrade. Even Medusas are.
Still, with the help of a Cap ship i was able to nail a medusa, right near the cap ship. I took a chance with it, but it was well worth it, since as i said Medusas are over my paygrade.

Not at last, cmdrs that invested that amount of time in AXI, they should be already part of AXI squadrons and if not able so solo Hydras, they should be at least able to wing them down.



Cap ships can barely scratch the Hydra. You should be able to deal the killing blow on it.

Or pull it away from the cap ship or... don't go in an Cap Ship CZ.
Plenty of normal AX CZ and NHSS where you can hunt Hydras without being afraid NPC will steal credits.

Defending bingo reached.

But you have legal points brought to the table.

 

[zimms]

[...] cmdrs that invested that amount of time in AXI, they should be already part of AXI squadrons [...]

Why?

 

[TWolfJaeger]

Bit dramatic, IMO
No one it's being punished. Or at least i dont feel like being punished.
And Hydras are over my paygrade. Even Medusas are.
Still, with the help of a Cap ship i was able to nail a medusa, right near the cap ship. I took a chance with it, but it was well worth it, since as i said Medusas are over my paygrade.

Not at last, cmdrs that invested that amount of time in AXI, they should be already part of AXI squadrons and if not able so solo Hydras, they should be at least able to wing them down.

Except it is not. If you aren't fighting the Hydras, much of this frustration doesn't even apply to you. If you were, you might be circling a Hydra for 15 minutes, bringing it down only to not get the combat bond because the beams from the capital ship dealt the last tick of damage. I was there when 7 CMDRs did that in one instance. 7x15 = 1.75 man hours in a one-off instance (out of how many others?) flushed down the tubes because the wrong entity was deemed to have struck the killing blow. That situation surely is not unique, as the closed ticket indicates.

If I was being dramatic, there wouldn't be three pages of comments on a closed ticket. People don't like their time being wasted at the end phase of a new type of combat zone that didn't exist until recently, where they defeat a boss and don't get the reward for doing so. Is that a good design choice? I'm saying it isn't.

Cap ships can barely scratch the Hydra. You should be able to deal the killing blow on it.

Or pull it away from the cap ship or... don't go in an Cap Ship CZ.
Plenty of normal AX CZ and NHSS where you can hunt Hydras without being afraid NPC will steal credits.

This is incorrect. Cap ships wouldn't be exerting the hearts to begin with if they were "barely scratching" them. Once the last heart is down, and the interceptor's regen mechanic is gone, capital beams melt it quickly.

None of this addresses my previous question:

Is the team suggesting that we work around this problem by kiting the biggest threat away from the zone's centerpiece feature, the experimental AX capital ships that were seemingly curated for this event in the first place, so that the last shot doesn't go to a capital ship firing a dozen converging beams at it? If that's intended behavior, why have the capital ships at all?

Normal AX sites and NHSS have existed for years now. They are not new content. The experimental AX capital ships are, and people should be excited to join up and defend them, if not for the simple spectacle that FDev brought something new to the player experience. They even made sure that other players share your bounties even if you aren't winged with them, clearly intending in some regard to broaden the appeal and bring in as many players as possible, which makes the decision to have cap ships take bonds away from players make even less sense.

If the intended workaround to ensure you get your rewards for defeating interceptors is to not engage with new content revealed for the first time, then what is the point of the new content?

 

[Northpin]

Is that a good design choice? I'm saying it isn't.

I'm not saying it is good. Nor bad.
It is a design choice that apparently wont be changed, so it's a matter of take it or leave it.

And it seems that a lot of people have no issues with it and know to enjoy the CG and make the most out of it.

They cleared it up, even if it was rather obvious that NPC get kill credits for both Scouts and Interceptors if they get the killing blow.
So now you know it is intended and it wont be changed.

And... it is a competition, with tiered rewards.
Giving 60 millions to each commander that scratches a Hydra is a bit too much.
Especially considering that reaching the Hydra in a Medium Cap Ship CZ is really really easy.

Because that seems to be alternative if they stop NPC from getting credit and/or they give credit to each and every commander that lands a hit on a Tharg.
And again, it's not like people are having a hard time to rack up hundreds of millions in this CG or in the previous one that managed to reach 1000 billions in less than a week.

Defending bingo reached.

damned if they do, damned if they dont.
some people cant be happy no matter what

 

[DuckDuckOne]

Sorry FDev but this implementation ruins too much of the gameplay and I hope you reconsider in future CGs. They might be worthless credits, but I value my time and having the game snag away my hard work at the last second is frustrating to put it politely.

 

[Zador]

I'm not saying it is good. Nor bad.

Except you then go on to defend it which you surely wouldn't if you thought it was bad

Because that seems to be alternative if they stop NPC from getting credit and/or they give credit to each and every commander that lands a hit on a Tharg.

That seems a better alternative than denying CMDRs any reward at all for a significant time investment. I got credit for 2 of 6 interceptor kills where I killed all the hearts. That frustrated me to such an extent I stopped engaging with this new content. More credits to CMDRs isn't going to frustrate "a lot of people who have no issue with it" as much as no credits for kills is going to frustrate those who do.

 

[BDelacroix]

I'm not sure its as simple as "the last tick of health".
I get credit often so long as I am doing a lot of damage (even if wasted) through the fight. I'm not necessarily the focus of the interceptor either.
As I stated, I think in this thread, if I'm careful and only smack the hearts as they glow, then I don't get credit. So I have to smack it around in between as well. Uses more ammo, but credit is nice.

 

[Another rock-hopper]

Greetings Commanders.

It's been noted on many fronts that there has been some concern and questioning around combat bond rewards for kills made around Capital Ships.

Issue Tracker: https://issues.frontierstore.net/issue-detail/51119

• "The new experimental capital-class ships are able to inflict damage to Thargoids making it possible for them to deliver the killing blow to the scouts and interceptors but by doing so, the players won't get any combat bonds regardless of their participation."

You'll now notice that this ticket has been closed 'By Design'.

As stated in the information provided on closure:
The team enabled Capital Ships to be viable receivers of kill credits, to help as mitigation against afk-farming exploits.
Whilst this has caused some frustration in the form of reports and discussions around the subject matter, the team are fully aware of your feedback and are taking it onboard.
There are no plans to address this currently, just wanted to inform you that it has been discussed.

The efforts out there in HIP 22460 are monumental right now.
It's incredible to watch so many Commanders contribute to the unfolding event, with major efforts all totaling up.

Fly safe o7
Thank you as always.

Thank you for the communication in this matter Sally.

Is it correct that the mitigation against afk-farming exploits mentioned here was taken from the standard combat zones?
Judging by the responses here and from other social media it has had a negative effect on players experience, old and new, that put the time investment into upgrading ships and playing the game as intended.

I don't know what Frontier have observed regarding afk-farming in these AX CZs but the implementation of this mechanic is very poor if it is affecting so many genuine players. Not a good look in the build-up to a finale of the long running Azimuth Saga.

o7

 

[avow555]

It's understandable that you want to prevent afk farming, but I bailed and turned the game off after destroying all the hearts of 2 cyclops and getting nothing for my efforts.

Yep switched off myself after had this happen a few times.
Only just returned after a break away from the game so we'll done on another insipid piece of fdev implementation.

 

[avow555]

With all due respect, that is a quite ridiculously dumb decision.

AX CZs aren’t viable for “AFK farming” in the first place, other forms of “AFK farming” are not affected, and it hurts people playing the game in the “intended” way more than it could ever potentially hurt “AFK farmers”.

I think this serves to remind everyone how little this company has any idea how their game works.

 

[TWolfJaeger]

I'm not saying it is good. Nor bad.
It is a design choice that apparently wont be changed, so it's a matter of take it or leave it.

And then defending said design choice despite the flawed implementation forcing players to adapt by avoiding the new content added for the event to begin with.

It is a design choice that apparently wont be changed, so it's a matter of take it or leave it.

Okay, but why.

And it seems that a lot of people have no issues with it and know to enjoy the CG and make the most out of it.

They cleared it up, even if it was rather obvious that NPC get kill credits for both Scouts and Interceptors if they get the killing blow.
So now you know it is intended and it wont be changed.

Except a lot of people do have a problem with it. When people bug report ( https://issues.frontierstore.net/issue-detail/51116 ) an intended design feature ( https://issues.frontierstore.net/issue-detail/51119 ) and the intended workaround is to avoid the content that was just added to the game, that is indicative of flawed design.

They cleared it up, even if it was rather obvious that NPC get kill credits for both Scouts and Interceptors if they get the killing blow.
So now you know it is intended and it wont be changed.

This is already not consistent with existing CZ mechanics. NPC ships don't take your bonds. NPC AX cap ships do. Existing AXI mechanics also ensure that multiple players regardless of wing or squadron status share bonds. It is more rewarding for large groups of players to cooperate as a result. That was a deliberate design change, several patches ago. This is not consistent with that change.

And... it is a competition, with tiered rewards.
Giving 60 millions to each commander that scratches a Hydra is a bit too much.
Especially considering that reaching the Hydra in a Medium Cap Ship CZ is really really easy.

Because that seems to be alternative if they stop NPC from getting credit and/or they give credit to each and every commander that lands a hit on a Tharg.
And again, it's not like people are having a hard time to rack up hundreds of millions in this CG or in the previous one that managed to reach 1000 billions in less than a week.

And... the new zones introduced for that competition were added, by hand, not randomly generated, with experimental AX capital ships as the centerpiece of those zones, tied to a story that has been building for over a year. Anyone would have understood this to attract more people to participate in AX combat in this specific region of space in order to give the story more impact. Cranking up the gameplay spectacle to 11 and attracting more players with high rewards at each phase of the encounter is the point.

I reiterate: If the intended use of new content added to the game is to avoid that content so you don't miss out on rewards for your gameplay, what is the point of the new content?

 

[Jack Winter]

In any case it's impossible to get this fixed for the current CG...

Maybe you guys can convince them to change it long term, still it sounded like a resounding no.

 

[TWolfJaeger]

I'm not sure its as simple as "the last tick of health".
I get credit often so long as I am doing a lot of damage (even if wasted) through the fight. I'm not necessarily the focus of the interceptor either.
As I stated, I think in this thread, if I'm careful and only smack the hearts as they glow, then I don't get credit. So I have to smack it around in between as well. Uses more ammo, but credit is nice.

The specific problem is burning down the interceptor's HP once all the hearts are destroyed. If the cap ship registers as having done the last tick of damage, nothing else up to that point matters. It doesn't matter if you killed one heart or eight, if you're solo or in an instance with ten other CMDRs, or if you emptied your weapons and synthesized more ammo twenty times in one instance. The workaround is to not let the interceptor be in range of the cap ship once the final heart is destroyed. The cap ships will take your combat bond if they get the last damage in. The cap ships that are the centerpiece of the zone and were added for this event to begin with.

 

[kiksunator]

I think I've lost half a dozen Basilisk kills at this point due to capital ships stealing the kills. The capital ship AX conflict zones are otherwise an absolute blast, but this is definitely an issue. There are mechanics to avoid it, but the Interceptor AI doesn't always play ball and they charge at the capital ship as their last resort it seems.

Edit: to add, anything that you do up until the kill doesn't matter and that's the problem. Even if I did 99% of the damage and destroyed all the hearts, that last 1% done by the capital ship then steals the kill.

Edit2: heck, even destroying just half of the hearts overall should allow anyone to get the bond. It's just a game, not a real life money scamming tactic.

 

[avow555]

Anything can be changed by fdev, it's just the will to do it.
But lets face facts, fdev never step around a banana skin of their own making do they.

 

[Solo Wing Ace]

Poor excuse to cover bad game design frontier. Honestly 45 mins, 15 synthesis (40 mats each) and 2m in damages and i get rewarded nothing for my medusa kill as the capital ship got that last 2% of hull. Pretty fustrating and not going back to czs again!

 

[CMDR Saigon]

This Thargoid AFK rationale is just ridiculous, if anyone can share an AX build that can take out a double Hydra AFK appreciated. If not, please remove it as it is destroying CMDRs' spirits in the current exciting CG & Narrative and is so anti-climatic! Thank you Fdev,

 

[aquilla]

theres a simple work around make sure atleast one person is hitting the goid with a laser beam when its dying , in a AX zone theres usually a couple people there , just make sure you are there with a laser doesn't matter what the capital ship is doing a beam laser deals continuous damage so you are basically guaranteed the last hit

nevermind doesn't work

 

[Northpin]

This is the status for the last 7 days.

I lost a Basilisk and a Cyclops, but that happened in the first AXI CG, in the second one (or the current one) i havent lost any interceptors

All my 4 medusas (i got one in the first CG too) were killed around the CapShip simply because i prefer to have the help of the CapShip in exerting the hearts
(Also valid for a number of Basilisk and Cyclops)

So while there is an increased level of difficulty due to having to make sure i'm the one getting the kill and not the CapShip or the NPCs, this is more than adequately compensated by the help provided by the CapShips.
And not at last, CapShips CZ are even easier due to the fact that Swarms are no doing any damage (not entirely sure if this is intended - added benefit from the CapShip - or a bug)
All in all, i find CapShip CZ easier than normal CZ, even with the added difficulty of securing kill credits

So, again, if the CapShips are a liability for you, dont get in there, play a normal AX CZ.
It doesnt seem fair to me to get only the benefits from CapShips (all the added damage) and not a single draw back (making sure to secure credits)

 

[Jack Winter]

I don't know if it extends to all the interceptors nor if it works all the time. But I've found that another few shots of gauss after killing the last heart and before the shield comes up gives me the kill. Though it might mean that I have to eat a corrosive missile to the face too, but that's easily burnt off.