The Thargoids are more violent then us (with proof)

[MrShinyTorterra]

The Azimuth saga has split the community in two groups. One says we are in the wrong for the war against Thargoids, the other one says the Thargoids are at fault. I, however, will proof that the Thargoids are more violent then us. To proof such a claim I will dig up the past.

The following points will be discussed:
-Thargoids striked first against the Guardians, therefor they do not care fore other alien races, we do.
-They do not communicate and randomly strike our stations
-We want to communicate, just as the Guardians did but they don't
-Thargoids adapt and change very slowly, so it's unlikely they changed their ways. A key point in this is that they have not revoked their no-communication policy.


-Thargoids striked first against the Guardians, therefor they do not care for other alien races, we do.
When the Thargoids returned to collect their barnicles they saw that there was now a new civilasation living on those planets. Without any attempt to communicate the Thargoids immediatly attacked those Guardian colonies, resulting probably in millions of guardian deaths. Yet, the Guardians did not pick up the weapons but first learned more about them to the point that they understood and could use the Thargoid language to communicate with them. Yet the Thargoids did not care and continued their attack. Only then the Guardians picked up arms and started to fight back. So when you think about it the Thargoids do not value or care about any other races and will start an attack without concidering much.

So to conclude this, the Thargoids do not ask themselfs who the other race is and why they are there. They will strike without any nuance and when the other race tries to communicate to handle things peacefully they will reject such an offer. One could argue that the Thargoids could be classified as xenophobic. They have now encountered two alien races who tried to communicate, one more succesfull then the other. Yet they choose to keep their violent nature.


-They do not communicate and randomly strike our stations
Over the past few years since we first encountered the Thargoids they have been attacking human stations and planetary settlements non-stop without any pattern. They just saw a station or settlement and attacked it. Even when not provoked they chose to attack. Millions of lives have been lost because of it. Even when a station is not a thread to them they attack it. As mentioned before both the human race and Guardian race tried to communicate. When the Guardians retreated they studied Thargoid language to a point that communication was possible. The Thargoids deliberatly chose to ignore it and any attempts to deescelate the situation. They want war, not us.

-We want to communicate, just as the Guardians did but they don't
The Far God cult worships the Thargoids and tried to communicate with Thargoids, yet every attempt has failed. All other human attempts to communicate have failed. The Thargoids do not want to.

-Thargoids adapt and change very slowly, so it's unlikely they changed their ways.
A key point in this is that they have not revoked their no-communication policy. It could be argued that the Thargoids from millions of years ago are not teh same that are at war with us today. Yet we see no changes in their behaviour when compared to how they behaved during the Guardian war. Thargoids are not just underdeveloped bugs, they are highly intelligent and have technology superior to us. They know when to fight and when to retreat, as the Guardians clearly have proven. They chose not to spend any military means to fight against the Guardians further and therefor retreated even tho they could have went all out if they wanted to. They are capable of thinking, creating, ... They are very intelligent, yet they do not want peace. Only war.

Counterarguments:

-It's in their nature
Yet they are highly advanced, capable of strategy, etc. As a species that highly advanced one could argue that they can act beyond their basic instincts and are capable of higher thinking. Their violent acts are well thought of.

-We could just not occupy those areas of space.
We can't talk with them, who knows how far they will go or how far there territory goes. They could just keep hunting us. The Guardians retreated yet the Thargoids did not stop any attacks. When faced with Thargoid attacks the Guardians first retreated, went peaceful and tried to communicate. The Thargoids however did not stop any attack after the Guardians retreated. If we would retreat out of the systems, who knows if they will stop. The Guardians tried that tactic and it failed.

-They only respond to us now because we fired the proteus wave.
Well yes and no. They attacked our stations and settlements and we responded. The Guardians saw the same thing happening. Only when faced with heavy losses the Thargoids chose to retreat. They choose to not wipe us out, when clearly they have the means and technology necesairy. They could see themselfs as superior and us as inferior and they sure act like that. You could argue and say that if we don't fight back, they will just see us as annoying bugs who they will not respect in any way. If we fight back maybe they will see the human race as equal instead of inferior. After the proteus wave that they definitly saw as a treath they started to occupy a system. When the guardians chose to defend themselfs the Thargoids also responded. They just want to keep their superiority in space and only when humanity is seen as somewhat of a treath they respond. To them we are worthless and just get in the way. They have no respect for us and don't value us or any other race. We must learn them some manners.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

Thargoids striked first against the Guardians, therefor they do not care fore other alien races, we do.

They do not communicate and randomly strike our stations

-We want to communicate, just as the Guardians did but they don't

Thargoids adapt and change very slowly, so it's unlikely they changed their ways. A key point they have not revoked their no-communication policy.

Mere anti-xeno propaganda...
Maybe you should ask the mudlarks how much humanity cares, oh wait, you wiped them out.

Maybe the goid ships humanity has encountered so far cannot communicate, you might need to encounter a higher inteligence.

Humanity has always been the aggressor, from either kidnapping & torturing a goid in 3125, to expanding into their areas without waiting for permission while stealing their stuff. Not even to mention the 2 attempts to wipe them out.

Just face it, you are mostly a very nasty species and maybe it is yours that needs erradicating.

 

[angusmadmac1]

Right so we have one side of the story from the guardians perspective .
Honest guv we didn't do nothin and we were attacked .
The guardians destroyed themselves with their own AI . They aren't going to say ahh yes we were the aggressors . We woz innocent will be the cry.

Jump forward to the Humans ?
Honest guv we didn't do nothin and we woz attacked . We are innocent ..
Humans shot the first shot , humans tried mass genocide.
As for the attacked stations ? Aegis who are inra who dropped the virus ? Were attacked first , the. Sirius after they failed to terraform ammonia world's .
So Humans have been the aggressors from the start .
It's in our nature , if we don't understand it we destroy it . If we fear it because it's different we destroy it . We will try and make it like an animal and therefore it doesn't count .

 

[TobiasFuzz]

To them we are worthless and just get in the way. They have no respect for us and don't value us or any other race. We must learn them some manners.

Yeah, worked really great last time we tried.
All this pseudo-philosophical bla bla can not hide that the Thargoids are the superior, more advanced Species. It would be wise not to whine like children and fool around. We should stay away from them and hope they leave us alone. Chances are very small they will let us, after we played to be the galaxies supervillain.

 

[Northpin]

The Azimuth saga has split the community in two groups. One says we are in the wrong for the war against Thargoids, the other one says the Thargoids are at fault. I, however, will proof that the Thargoids are more violent then us. To proof such a claim I will dig up the past.

The following points will be discussed:
-Thargoids striked first against the Guardians, therefor they do not care fore other alien races, we do.
-They do not communicate and randomly strike our stations
-We want to communicate, just as the Guardians did but they don't
-Thargoids adapt and change very slowly, so it's unlikely they changed their ways. A key point in this is that they have not revoked their no-communication policy.


-Thargoids striked first against the Guardians, therefor they do not care for other alien races, we do.
When the Thargoids returned to collect their barnicles they saw that there was now a new civilasation living on those planets. Without any attempt to communicate the Thargoids immediatly attacked those Guardian colonies, resulting probably in millions of guardian deaths. Yet, the Guardians did not pick up the weapons but first learned more about them to the point that they understood and could use the Thargoid language to communicate with them. Yet the Thargoids did not care and continued their attack. Only then the Guardians picked up arms and started to fight back. So when you think about it the Thargoids do not value or care about any other races and will start an attack without concidering much.

So to conclude this, the Thargoids do not ask themselfs who the other race is and why they are there. They will strike without any nuance and when the other race tries to communicate to handle things peacefully they will reject such an offer. One could argue that the Thargoids could be classified as xenophobic. They have now encountered two alien races who tried to communicate, one more succesfull then the other. Yet they choose to keep their violent nature.


-They do not communicate and randomly strike our stations
Over the past few years since we first encountered the Thargoids they have been attacking human stations and planetary settlements non-stop without any pattern. They just saw a station or settlement and attacked it. Even when not provoked they chose to attack. Millions of lives have been lost because of it. Even when a station is not a thread to them they attack it. As mentioned before both the human race and Guardian race tried to communicate. When the Guardians retreated they studied Thargoid language to a point that communication was possible. The Thargoids deliberatly chose to ignore it and any attempts to deescelate the situation. They want war, not us.

-We want to communicate, just as the Guardians did but they don't
The Far God cult worships the Thargoids and tried to communicate with Thargoids, yet every attempt has failed. All other human attempts to communicate have failed. The Thargoids do not want to.

-Thargoids adapt and change very slowly, so it's unlikely they changed their ways.
A key point in this is that they have not revoked their no-communication policy. It could be argued that the Thargoids from millions of years ago are not teh same that are at war with us today. Yet we see no changes in their behaviour when compared to how they behaved during the Guardian war. Thargoids are not just underdeveloped bugs, they are highly intelligent and have technology superior to us. They know when to fight and when to retreat, as the Guardians clearly have proven. They chose not to spend any military means to fight against the Guardians further and therefor retreated even tho they could have went all out if they wanted to. They are capable of thinking, creating, ... They are very intelligent, yet they do not want peace. Only war.

Counterarguments:

-It's in their nature
Yet they are highly advanced, capable of strategy, etc. As a species that highly advanced one could argue that they can act beyond their basic instincts and are capable of higher thinking. Their violent acts are well thought of.

-We could just not occupy those areas of space.
We can't talk with them, who knows how far they will go or how far there territory goes. They could just keep hunting us. The Guardians retreated yet the Thargoids did not stop any attacks. When faced with Thargoid attacks the Guardians first retreated, went peaceful and tried to communicate. The Thargoids however did not stop any attack after the Guardians retreated. If we would retreat out of the systems, who knows if they will stop. The Guardians tried that tactic and it failed.

-They only respond to us now because we fired the proteus wave.
Well yes and no. They attacked our stations and settlements and we responded. The Guardians saw the same thing happening. Only when faced with heavy losses the Thargoids chose to retreat. They choose to not wipe us out, when clearly they have the means and technology necesairy. They could see themselfs as superior and us as inferior and they sure act like that. You could argue and say that if we don't fight back, they will just see us as annoying bugs who they will not respect in any way. If we fight back maybe they will see the human race as equal instead of inferior. After the proteus wave that they definitly saw as a treath they started to occupy a system. When the guardians chose to defend themselfs the Thargoids also responded. They just want to keep their superiority in space and only when humanity is seen as somewhat of a treath they respond. To them we are worthless and just get in the way. They have no respect for us and don't value us or any other race. We must learn them some manners.

That's so wrong on so many levels...

therefor they do not care fore other alien races, we do.

Wrong, we do not care about other alien races... the most prominent example being the colonization of Achenar, not to mention the unprovoked hostility showed by the Velize system colonists which seem to be the root cause of the first Thargoid war

They do not communicate

They actually do, but we cant get the meaning of their comms - their comms are either too advanced or too different for us to grasp them

Edit: have you seen this?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1558152016622395396

Source: https://twitter.com/EliteDangerous/status/1558152016622395396?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1558152016622395396%7Ctwgr%5E0ab69b89bb0f304aacdc2e066c4d2aa50f815852%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.frontier.co.uk%2Fthreads%2Fpost-salvation-stuff-the-spoiler-thread.606657%2Fpage-6

We want to communicate

We sure do, but every time we try to, we somehow manage to mix the comms button with the fire-all-weapons button and instead of hailing them we fire at them

 

[Zulu Romeo]

A new thought just came to me.

What if the Thargoid aggression in HIP 22460 isn't in their nature, and it's the unusual effects of the Proteus Anomaly having effects on them beyond their control, turning the local ones mad and feral? Perhaps the anti Guardian radiation in the system is causing the Thargoids to act ferociously, and is the cause of everything that is wrong right now there.

The hive's attempts to rectify things is impacting on their sites everywhere else, causing Scavengers to glow red from their emitters, and meaning that Relics given to their machines aren't entirely destroyed but only partly drained after their connection. Everywhere else beyond HIP 22460, the Thargoid ship behaviour is unchanged, unaffected by the Proteus Anomaly.

Furthermore, if these non-feral Thargoids see you have a modified Relic, safer for them to touch and analyse themselves rather than approaching the verboten standard relics, they will insist you give them up instead of attacking you straight off for them - similar to how they react if you had their meta alloys. These objects are now precious to them, and they want to know what they are as much as we do (especially since we've done the reprocessing of the toxic material for them).

Consider also this: the Anomaly is nowhere to be seen in 3.8 / Horizons. No aggressive Thargoids nearby in that parallel universe.

The Anomaly is still glowing, massive enough to be seen from solar orbit, and continues to discharge out radiation. If we can disable, close and in general stop the Anomaly from existing somehow, perhaps it will end the impasse in HIP 22460.

But how? Perhaps analysis from Ram Tah and Ishmael Palin is the first step down a route that results in an answer.

 

[GroG79]

Where is the Proof?

 

[MrShinyTorterra]

I just want to remind everyone that the Thargoids are a very intelligent race and have technology far superior to ours. They don't just act certain ways because of their nature. They probably posses a consciousness. As far as the doubts come about the Guardian history. It's a lore created by fdev. They usualy hint at things that are untrue. They never did that for Guardian lore so we could assume all of that is accurate.

 

[MrShinyTorterra]

Where is the Proof?

I use sources from the lore. Everything I say can be found on the wiki or any official sources.

 

[Zulu Romeo]

Where is the Proof?

That's why God created hypotheses, so that mankind can devise investigations to prove or refute things.

 

[Star Wanderer]

They have existed for millions of years, and still didn't learn the basic etiquet of First Contact. They are parasitic species, harvesting planets to make their War Machine. We have nothing in common with this pest.
They must be eradicated, for the better of all mankind.
But first we need to understand their wormhole technologie and adapt it for our own use. Else we will be in great disadvantage in an All out War.

 

[Zulu Romeo]

They have existed for millions of years, and still didn't learn the basic etiquet of First Contact. They are parasitic species, harvesting planets to make their War Machine. We have nothing in common with this pest.

Sounds like we have everything in common with them.

 

[Martind Forlon]

The Thargoids are more violent then us (with proof)​

I do not know (yet) about any Thargoids attempt to erase Humans race like Salvation have planned against them (and he was broadly suported not only by cmdrs but also by superpowers). Sorry, but just this thread name is imo absolutelly false. Humans (including historical affair(s) with another xenocide attempt "hidden" there) clearly were not any "good guy" in this. Humans invaded into Thargoid space and surprisingly they were not welcomed. Humans do not show any mercy and do not keep any rules, so why Thargoids should do different? Not mentioning a simple fact that they are evolutionary very far in advance to any human being.

 

[Rainbro]

Our approach to this conflict has been "kill everything in sight". I could go on for hours on the nature of the Thargoid's behaviour, but if we're just comparing levels of violence then that simplifies matters somewhat.

 

[The Lawful]

I don't know (yet) what the Thargoids might do with the bodies collected, but what we can be sure of is that INRA tore limbs from Thargoid specimen, and from there, it's just a rhetorical issue anymore. Visit The Stack and see for yourself.

O7,

 

[angusmadmac1]

They have existed for millions of years, and still didn't learn the basic etiquet of First Contact. They are parasitic species, harvesting planets to make their War Machine. We have nothing in common with this pest.
They must be eradicated, for the better of all mankind.
But first we need to understand their wormhole technologie and adapt it for our own use. Else we will be in great disadvantage in an All out War.

I thought you were talking about those hairless apes ?? Now put yourself in Thargoid shoes .
Humans don't understand first contact and shoot on sight . They have always been the aggressors when we have pulled them out of hyperspace for scanning they have always deployed weapons and not any sort of communication . They have removed our meta alloys and have conducted experiments on living thargoids to try to reverse engineer our ships . Even though they can't live on ammonia world's they tried to destroy these atmospheres for no other reason to limit us . They sent out an indiscriminate virus which killed or maimed thousands of Thargoid women and children .
These hairless apes are a danger to any civilised or intelligent species and therefore must be eradicated or at least corralled into an area where they can do no harm .
They could have wiped us out and yet they haven't , why ??

 

[Star Wanderer]

I thought you were talking about those hairless apes ?? Now put yourself in Thargoid shoes .
Humans don't understand first contact and shoot on sight . They have always been the aggressors when we have pulled them out of hyperspace for scanning they have always deployed weapons and not any sort of communication . They have removed our meta alloys and have conducted experiments on living thargoids to try to reverse engineer our ships . Even though they can't live on ammonia world's they tried to destroy these atmospheres for no other reason to limit us . They sent out an indiscriminate virus which killed or maimed thousands of Thargoid women and children .
These hairless apes are a danger to any civilised or intelligent species and therefore must be eradicated or at least corralled into an area where they can do no harm .
They could have wiped us out and yet they haven't , why ??

You can't put your self in to their shoes, they are not human.
You can't project your humanity on to them, they are not human, they are totaly different species.
You need to base your assumption on facts. And facts are:
1. They are much much older than us.
2. They are hostile.
3. They do not want to communicate. Old Guardian records shows the exact same behavier.
4. Guardian records show - defeating them pushed them out of Guardian space, and they never returned.

You can empathise with them all you want, but they will not show the same torwards you. Humans and Thargoids have no common ground to build a relationship on.

 

[MrShinyTorterra]

Also humanity would agree to things like a peace treaty, establish borders, say who controls what system. Thargoids wouldn't. Do not forget they have been pushing towards the bubble for a long time now. If we didn't react they would eventualy overrun our human bubble.

 

[Zulu Romeo]

You can't put your self in to their shoes, they are not human.
You can't project your humanity on to them, they are not human, they are totaly different species.

You just did though.

They have existed for millions of years, and still didn't learn the basic etiquet of First Contact. They are parasitic species, harvesting planets to make their War Machine.

 

[MrShinyTorterra]

I do not know (yet) about any Thargoids attempt to erase Humans race like Salvation have planned against them (and he was broadly suported not only by cmdrs but also by superpowers). Sorry, but just this thread name is imo absolutelly false. Humans (including historical affair(s) with another xenocide attempt "hidden" there) clearly were not any "good guy" in this. Humans invaded into Thargoid space and surprisingly they were not welcomed. Humans do not show any mercy and do not keep any rules, so why Thargoids should do different? Not mentioning a simple fact that they are evolutionary very far in advance to any human being.

Let me just point out that Thargoids have been pushing towards our bubble, destroying stations on their way.