Is this really it? Is this the whole game? Did I miss something?

[bassman]

I'm not entirely sure what people expect from a sandbox space combat/trading game other than the ability to do combat and trading in a freeform fashion.

The trouble with linear story led games is that they end and no matter how much fun they were, I'm always reluctant to start again.

There doesnt need to be a canned linear story, a background simulation of persistent autonomous NPCs, persistent USS's generated from their interactions etc would provide infinite variety of plots and sub plots - see my earlier post.

 

[Shoklar]

The only baseless part was that I called it a shotgun, you just referenced shooting. I chose shotgun because your approach was a generic blasting rather than a focussed comment as in 'shotgun approach'. At this point you are putting the OP's concerns onto me and your own assumption that I am not enjoying the game. I would guestimate that I would be in the top 10% of players in hours spent simply because despite my job I'm playing till late after kids go to bed. I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't enjoy it. None of this though takes away from my perfectly valid opinion that I expect to see more and have said more than once in this thread that I believe we will see more.

You decided to 'shoot down in flames' someone that wants to expand on this game, actually gave examples from other games where they thought ideas might apply, and did this all because it is unfinished. Newsflash, you missed with your shots, missed a whole bunch a salient points. You thought you had the killer line/point and as it turns out you didn't because you have accepted that more needs to be put into this game.
The ONLY ways for a thread to be ended is for a Mod to close it or for people to stop posting. So if you did fire blanks, preferably using a silencer then you would be closer to achieving your objective than you are right now.

Can you provide me with the list of content that FD have stated will be in the game on release, so I can compare it with yours and the ops lists.

Also, let me get this right. You're concerned there isn't enough content without specifically stating what it is you all want to see, or was this based on the content in the unfinished Freelancer game that was shoveled out? Also, I never made an assumption, it was based on and I quote: "It is not the answer to the concerns since imagination has to be assumed in some way to find this remotely enjoyable." If you have no imagination, how can you enjoy anything you play?

I'm enjoying it and I'm using my imagination within the game to play it from different angles and having fun. Clearly, you do say "remotely enjoyable". Maybe, I am not understanding you. Do you and others like the op just sit there, motionless and unthinking and play the game mechanic with no emotion or feeling or gumption to try some different way out? I don't mean this in a condecending way. I am trying very hard to understand how you and others do not see what I and others do and how these claims or concerns evolve and what they're based on.

Also:
Time to move on from this trainwreck of a thread. So, I'll just shoot it down in flames.

If this was the final release of the game with all content, you'd already be playing the full release and not beta 3.05.

It really really does speak for itself, yet you continued to drag it on and on. Especially, when it's a given that new content will be added at later dates with expansions. And this is still beta 3.05.

Shok.

 

[nexxo]

There's another religion started up right there!

Funny you should say that. When computer games magazine The Games Machine reviewed Elite II: Frontier, their front cover was dedicated to the question: "IS BRABEN GOD?". Now you know.

 

[Johnny Kelso]

Funny you should say that. When computer games magazine The Games Machine reviewed Elite II: Frontier, their front cover was dedicated to the question: "IS BRABEN GOD?". Now you know.

Yes I remember that article! I wonder if anyone has a copy of that anywhere.......

Got it: https://twitter.com/EliteArchives/status/509607216542781440

 

[deusx_ophc]

oh as a sidenote, a quote from a new member on this forum today

Hi, name's Flash Frame and I'm a long time Simulator fan, but first time Elite player, and I've gotta say, I'm LOVING ED.

...snip...

I've been here for about a week now, and I must say, just, jumping from system to system, looking around, trading and trying to get that next big ship... hauling cargo and the like, it's just tons of fun.

I've wanted a space sim where I could do exactly this, for years. and now, with graphics and controls like never before, combined with experiences like Occulus rift and Track IR... my dreams of being a starship captain have finally come true.

Look forward to meeting you all out in the stars.

sounds like someone enjoying beta already, imagine what the full game will hold for him. ahh yes, there was that trouble with your imagination... darn it

 

[MorkFromOrk]

Can you provide me with the list of content that FD have stated will be in the game on release, so I can compare it with yours and the ops lists.

Also, let me get this right. You're concerned there isn't enough content without specifically stating what it is you all want to see, or was this based on the content in the unfinished Freelancer game that was shoveled out? Also, I never made an assumption, it was based on and I quote: "It is not the answer to the concerns since imagination has to be assumed in some way to find this remotely enjoyable." If you have no imagination, how can you enjoy anything you play?

I'm enjoying it and I'm using my imagination within the game to play it from different angles and having fun. Clearly, you do say "remotely enjoyable". Maybe, I am not understanding you. Do you and others like the op just sit there, motionless and unthinking and play the game mechanic with no emotion or feeling or gumption to try some different way out? I don't mean this in a condecending way. I am trying very hard to understand how you and others do not see what I and others do and how these claims or concerns evolve and what they're based on.

Also:
Time to move on from this trainwreck of a thread. So, I'll just shoot it down in flames.

If this was the final release of the game with all content, you'd already be playing the full release and not beta 3.05.

It really really does speak for itself, yet you continued to drag it on and on. Especially, when it's a given that new content will be added at later dates with expansions. And this is still beta 3.05.

Shok.

Strangely enough I don't have a list of what is promised on release. I don't believe there is one. The design docs talk about what they are aiming for but don't guarantee. So what can we expect is mixed up with what we should expect.

Take it to basics. If the game released in exactly the form it is today with no new game play aspects and no new content would you be satisfied (bugs excluded from consideration)? If not, would you be satisfied with promises of more down the road?

To answer my own questions:

Would I be satisfied if released as it is today? No, I wouldn't be because other than size and graphics-wise it is not far enough evolved beyond Elite 30 years ago, never mind the other sequels.

Would I be satisfied with promises of more down the road? Maybe initially, but as of release I'm going to be far less trusting of those promises and will be interesting in knowing more details.

Finally the 'remotely enjoyable' comment in context:

Use my imagination. I've been doing that for months now. It is not the answer to the concerns since imagination has to be assumed in some way to find this remotely enjoyable.

There is no point playing this game if you have no imagination. Imagination is key to enjoyment since otherwise it makes no sense whatsoever as there is no productive benefit to taking part. People that play this have imagination but perhaps some people would like to have to use less of it to fill in gaps that they feel the game should be filling in for them. After months of imagining the role I'm playing because the role has not yet been fleshed out, if I end up in release still having to imagine the role entirely then I will be disappointed because the thought and depth put into each role/faction/alliance in the design discussions was excellent.

 

[Mobius]

Combat = Shoot at NPC shipos that pretty much just fly around in big arcs or charge you head on. Have OP ship or hope the NPCs don't get the last kill. Turn in kill mission (if you have one) and collect NPC bounty money. Repeat. Upgrade ship maybe to blow up things better.

Exploration = Hyperspace a lot. Scan. Sell information to NPC.

Trading = Get mission. Hyperspace. Turn in mission. Repeat. OR use information from the Internet to find out where to buy things, hyperspace, then sell them and repeat. Possibly upgrade ship to carry more.

PVP/Pirate = Blow things up. Get money and/or goods. Sell goods. Repeat.

Mining = Pew asteroid. Sell to NPC. Repeat.

doesn't this sort of view of yours apply to every game ever created..
.

Driving game, point car right way and go forward.
first person shooter, point gun right way and shoot.
RTS game, build army and point in the right direction
sports game, shoot ball in the right direction.
Sandbox game, go in any direction.
RPG, kill monster rinse and repeat.
.
if you feel that Elite doesn't offer anything interesting, then you will be better of playing Star Citizen.

 

[the darkwalker]

ED is not for every one .... if you can´t get in, than it hard to explain what it is. YOU get the skills to Fly/Fight better ... not your Avatar. Its YOU which must fill the Game with Content ... the Game only give you the Tools.

Wish they told this on the adverts then..

 

[Gee]

Hi. I occasionally drop in here to see what's going pin but as gamma (my pledge level) approaches I'm beginning to be more active.

For me, this has been a very interesting thread.

OPs points were constructive and humorously expressed.

As someone who has watched the game develop but not played it yet - my concern is that the gameplay hasn't really advanced in 30 years.

From what I can tell it looks like an especially respectful, almost OCD update of the 80s elite.

I appreciate there's more to come, but I didn't buy into beta and alpha for a reason - I'm not really interested in product testing and I want my elite experience to be as fully formed as possible - planetary landings etc excepted.

This thread makes me think I ought to leave off playing for a little longer... Arrrgggghhhh - wait is killing me...

 

[Shoklar]

Strangely enough I don't have a list of what is promised on release. I don't believe there is one. The design docs talk about what they are aiming for but don't guarantee. So what can we expect is mixed up with what we should expect.

Take it to basics. If the game released in exactly the form it is today with no new game play aspects and no new content would you be satisfied (bugs excluded from consideration)? If not, would you be satisfied with promises of more down the road?

To answer my own questions:

Would I be satisfied if released as it is today? No, I wouldn't be because other than size and graphics-wise it is not far enough evolved beyond Elite 30 years ago, never mind the other sequels.
Would I be satisfied with promises of more down the road? Maybe initially, but as of release I'm going to be far less trusting of those promises and will be interesting in knowing more details.
Finally the 'remotely enjoyable' comment in context:

There is no point playing this game if you have no imagination. Imagination is key to enjoyment since otherwise it makes no sense whatsoever as there is no productive benefit to taking part. People that play this have imagination but perhaps some people would like to have to use less of it to fill in gaps that they feel the game should be filling in for them. After months of imagining the role I'm playing because the role has not yet been fleshed out, if I end up in release still having to imagine the role entirely then I will be disappointed because the thought and depth put into each role/faction/alliance in the design discussions was excellent.

May I ask what you require to make it remotely enjoyable, so we can at least stop beating around the bush and get it out there? I also feel this game will re-awaken many peoples imagination once it hits. What we have now is far far more than any other game in existence. Sure, we can draw some comparisons, but with sound, combat and graphics. They have nailed it hook line and sinker. The rest can be tweaked and added if not before release, past release. So, what would 'make' it for you, please share.

I mean, we have 400 billion stars. We have the scale, the future is set. The sound is excellent, the combat and graphics are better than any other space sim I've played, and yes. I have played Freelancer and EvE online. Even them required a form of imagination in the form of roleplay to make it worthwhile playing. In Freelancer, I was a trader and amassed a lot of wealth and 'funded' other peoples (new starters) projects "Rockefeller" style. This was my imagination at work. In EvE, I was a corpse stroking psychotic killer under the name of "Flatliner" who butchered my way with friends from one side of the galaxy to the other. Again, I played it from my perspective of how I imagined a guy who knew he was free to do such terrible things. I must admit, it was amusing teasing people with their own corpse in a trade window and watching them click repeatedly at the trade button. The freedom of the game allowed me to do such things. Which is what we have here with Elite Dangerous.


Shok.

 

[MorkFromOrk]

May I ask what you require to make it remotely enjoyable, so we can at least stop beating around the bush and get it out there? I also feel this game will re-awaken many peoples imagination once it hits. What we have now is far far more than any other game in existence. Sure, we can draw some comparisons, but with sound, combat and graphics. They have nailed it hook line and sinker. The rest can be tweaked and added if not before release, past release. So, what would 'make' it for you, please share.

I mean, we have 400 billion stars. We have the scale, the future is set. The sound is excellent, the combat and graphics are better than any other space sim I've played, and yes. I have played Freelancer and EvE online. Even them required a form of imagination in the form of roleplay to make it worthwhile playing. In Freelancer, I was a trader and amassed a lot of wealth and 'funded' other peoples (new starters) projects "Rockefeller" style. This was my imagination at work. In EvE, I was a corpse stroking psychotic killer under the name of "Flatliner" who butchered my way with friends from one side of the galaxy to the other. Again, I played it from my perspective of how I imagined a guy who knew he was free to do such terrible things. I must admit, it was amusing teasing people with their own corpse in a trade window and watching them click repeatedly at the trade button. The freedom of the game allowed me to do such things. Which is what we have here with Elite Dangerous.


Shok.

You are still misreading and at this point I am starting to think deliberately. For anyone to enjoy this game (or ANY game) they need imagination. I have been saying that the lack of imagination is not a valid stock response to anyone that wants more. At no point did I say it wasn't remotely enjoyable for me.

So please, if this still doesn't make sense to you do one of two things. One - Go back, read my various responses to you and others and actually work out what I am saying. Two - Use your incredible imagination, imagine I actually said something that you managed to understand, and role play as though it satisfied you.

 

[Shoklar]

Two - Use your incredible imagination, imagine I actually said something that you managed to understand, and role play as though it satisfied you.

I see you finally got it. Touche. Have a nice day.

Shok.

 

[Zieman]

@ Mork & Shok: Yay, you both win internet!

@ OP: In Elite: Dangerous you don't need "max level" to go wherever you want. In E: D there is no such thing as "max level" - you can always learn to do things better (or differently).

 

[MorkFromOrk]

@ Mork & Shok: Yay, you both win internet!

I had already imagined that I had but it's nice to get some clarification.

 

[Flip]

So I've probably put about 20-30 hours into the game now, and I'm still having trouble...well, I'm having trouble locating the game, to be honest. I'm bored!

You know what? Exit the station, turn the flight assistance off, then go back in and dock without turning it back on. Then tell me if you're still bored!

 

[Ramjet]

I also wish people would stop trying to convince others that there's nothing wrong. You have to ask yourself, in its current condition, do you really think that this game could possibly be reviewed well at all, except by people that really, really want a very repetitive space-flight sim that essentially doesn't even have missions, back story, or any details at all about the surroundings? Do you think anyone but they current backers are going to be interested in something this simplistic, that is, at the same time, so difficult to learn? And do you really think you're going to get any of the promised content if no one buys the game?

All of these things that the devs have promised...have you guys not played any other video games? Things are always promised. Grand, spectacular, game changing and defining things. Those things don't happen, though, if the initial game doesn't draw in a significant number of buyers. And this game needs a lot of help before it's going to draw in much of anyone that hasn't already paid for it.

What you have stated clearly is an honest and frank appraisal of things as they stand, it is an opinion and one I also share ... quite a few people on these forums do not like to hear such criticisms which are so brutally honest because they choose to be totally positive and believe in Frontier, which is great, and they are happy like that so good for them. But I think it is good for the development of this game that anyone can post such honest impressions and I share many of them for the same reasons. Whether the game developers take them seriously or not is unknown.

Admittedly we just do not know what the final release will bring, however I do believe the questions you raise are important because the wider gaming public will look at Elite Dangerous in a much more critical way and word of mouth opinions fly fast these days. The nostalgic idea of having the vast universe of Elite to explore and adventure in is beautiful no doubt, but the lack of life or liveliness makes it feel very dry all too quickly.

My great hope & expectation is that by release we see the gameplay & story elements we are missing now, because they are kept for release. Without those elements I think sales might be very slow. This in turn can impact on how sustainable it is to even have a future of walking around our spaceships or landing on planets. We all want and expect those things to be added but the harsh reality is that if the game fails to capture the imagination of enough people who want to buy it ... what then ? The answer is too terrible to consider!

All of the above is added to my feeling (and many others) that the game is not ready for release and should be delayed. But if there truly is another "gamma" branch of the game, mostly bug-free, waiting in the wings, great bring it on ! ... Frontier truly know what they are doing. But if they are just rushing to meet their own Christmas deadline proclaimed long ago ... well, let's hope that is not true.

 

[Shoklar]

Can I ask a moderator to please move this thread to the beta discussions, since that's what it's beta 3.05 related to and not really for the general public to get assumptions and misconceptions from.

Thanks,
Shok.

 

[Tronicus]

The true, honest to goodness answer ( that a lot of people really don't want to hear) is, yes. That's it.

They have taken a game that was 20+ years old and brought it up to current technological standards. If you ever played the old Elite:Frontier game, it is absolutely identical. Sure, there is a lot better graphics, and yes, I can see and interact ( in a very limited fasion ) with other humans, but for all intents and purposes, to date, all Frontier has shown is is a rebranded 20+ year old game. Sure, there are a lot of promises out there, and a lot of hopeful " wait and you will see" kind of hype, but I think as far as release goes, they are going to finish polishing out the bugs, and are going to call it good.

There will be a lot of howling about things like "Where is the rest of the game?" or " I can't believe all this time and money was spent for this" kind of thing going on, and the DEVs will say how they have the basic game all laid out, and you will just have to wait for the expansion. I hate to sound so pessimistic, but from what I have seen and played, that will be what happens. I truly hope I am wrong. I truly hope that they actually have a few things up their sleeve to throw out at launch that will give us something to chew on until the first expansion.

As far as what we DO have to play, it is an enjoyable experience. You truly can decide your own fate, do what you want to do, and not really worry about grinding out gear and gold. Sure, credits will get you better equipment, but even a well kitted out Sidewinder will get you where you want to go in this game. Having been a younger man that spend many many hours playing the predecessor to this game, I am grateful that it has received an update.

Regardless of what comes out at release, the DEVs better get themselves sorted and on the ball. While this is a great game for the nostalgic, the fact of the matter is that players expect a lot more in today's gaming. A considerably better multiplayer experience, storylines, and as much immersion as they can punch down in code needs to get done, and done as soon as possible. As the game stands now, if Star Citizen is even half of what they are promising, this game will become nothing more than a small footnote in the evolution of Space simulator games.

 

[MorkFromOrk]

Can I ask a moderator to please move this thread to the beta discussions, since that's what it's beta 3.05 related to and not really for the general public to get assumptions and misconceptions from.

Thanks,
Shok.

Might be a valid move but it doesn't hide it from the public. Beta section is open to everyone anyway.

 

[Gee]

The true, honest to goodness answer ( that a lot of people really don't want to hear) is, yes. That's it.

They have taken a game that was 20+ years old and brought it up to current technological standards. If you ever played the old Elite:Frontier game, it is absolutely identical. Sure, there is a lot better graphics, and yes, I can see and interact ( in a very limited fasion ) with other humans, but for all intents and purposes, to date, all Frontier has shown is is a rebranded 20+ year old game. Sure, there are a lot of promises out there, and a lot of hopeful " wait and you will see" kind of hype, but I think as far as release goes, they are going to finish polishing out the bugs, and are going to call it good.

There will be a lot of howling about things like "Where is the rest of the game?" or " I can't believe all this time and money was spent for this" kind of thing going on, and the DEVs will say how they have the basic game all laid out, and you will just have to wait for the expansion. I hate to sound so pessimistic, but from what I have seen and played, that will be what happens. I truly hope I am wrong. I truly hope that they actually have a few things up their sleeve to throw out at launch that will give us something to chew on until the first expansion.

As far as what we DO have to play, it is an enjoyable experience. You truly can decide your own fate, do what you want to do, and not really worry about grinding out gear and gold. Sure, credits will get you better equipment, but even a well kitted out Sidewinder will get you where you want to go in this game. Having been a younger man that spend many many hours playing the predecessor to this game, I am grateful that it has received an update.

Regardless of what comes out at release, the DEVs better get themselves sorted and on the ball. While this is a great game for the nostalgic, the fact of the matter is that players expect a lot more in today's gaming. A considerably better multiplayer experience, storylines, and as much immersion as they can punch down in code needs to get done, and done as soon as possible. As the game stands now, if Star Citizen is even half of what they are promising, this game will become nothing more than a small footnote in the evolution of Space simulator games.

Oh heck.

That really, really wasn't what I wanted to hear.

I'm very willing to see what FD come up with this month but it sounds like for those like me who want a relatively 'complete' experience the gamma should remain uninstalled for a bit longer....