Is Elite: Dangerous too difficult?

Plenty of occasions to experience that. And when you thought you had figured it out, some update reverted mechanics and left you trying things that simply wouldn't work anymore. Playing ED felt more like playing an Early Access game. Minus the usual dev generosity about stuff that breaks or being able to roll back the "save".
Fortunately I've been able to progress, in my own fashion, without becoming embittered and continue to generate my own entertainment in the game.
Works well enough for me - I never managed to find the suffering and disillusionment apparent in a few here.
 
But I'm also not sure it reflects well on the game that third-party intervention is basically essential.

I haven't played WoW in about 8 years. Loved the game but:

  • Absolutely essential 3rd party addons. Common to have a dozen running.
  • Had to learn to make automated macros using their little macro language.
  • Internet guides for building your character class. Essential. Equipment & abilities for maximizing dps.
  • Internet guides necessary for quests. So many were broken or obscure.
  • Internet guides necessary for dungeons & raids. Otherwise you are useless and get left behind.
  • 95% of internet info obsolete. Wide sweeping changes with expansions, obsoleting internet info.

I loved the game. Interesting to note that ED pales in comparison to the 3rd party tools and addons. And it is a wildly popular game.
Same with DayZ. Or EvE. Or any Paradox game. And good luck running a proper trade empire in X4 without using online tutorials, guides and tips. Any game with any level of complexity will always have the community spend thousands upon thousands upon many more thousands of hours of documentation, tools, and apps. Its not an indictment of the game, it doesn't mean the 'devs are lazy', it just means there is a healthy community actively supporting a game they enjoy.

ED is even relatively mild in the sense you can easily play ED without using any tools and still progress. Try that with DayZ and see how many minutes you'll survive before a complete restart.
 
To claim that one has experienced suffering a disillusionment in a game, and yet still continue to play said game seems perverse to me, if I was ever to start feeling that way from playing a computer game I would simply stop playing it, wouldn't most of us?
Sane and mentally healthy people, yes. Others will continue to play because they promised themselves this would be their Forever Game that would finally make them happy. Others even go so far as to hang around half a decade after uninstalling out of sheer bitterness. Some will quite literally never mentally get over not liking a game as much as they had hoped.
 
Same with DayZ. Or EvE. Or any Paradox game. And good luck running a proper trade empire in X4 without using online tutorials, guides and tips. Any game with any level of complexity will always have the community spend thousands upon thousands upon many more thousands of hours of documentation, tools, and apps. Its not an indictment of the game, it doesn't mean the 'devs are lazy', it just means there is a healthy community actively supporting a game they enjoy.

ED is even relatively mild in the sense you can easily play ED without using any tools and still progress. Try that with DayZ and see how many minutes you'll survive before a complete restart.
I never needed extensive guides or 3rd party apps for any Paradox game nor X games. It's all explained in the game. Mostly. And what isn't can easily been looked up in a Steam guide. I never played a game that relied heavily on 3rd party apps.
 
To claim that one has experienced suffering a disillusionment in a game, and yet still continue to play said game seems perverse to me, if I was ever to start feeling that way from playing a computer game I would simply stop playing it, wouldn't most of us?

I guess it's a bit like the current fashion for "hate-watching" various TV shows.
People watch them just so they can find the next thing that they don't approve of.

To be fair, I guess a lot of these people might consider themselves to be genuine "fans" of the thing but they're simply cheesed-off that they keep finding things they don't like even though they keep hoping to find things they DO like.

There comes a point, though, where the healthiest thing you can do is just accept that the thing actually isn't for you any more, rather than moaning about it and hoping it will become something you like again, one day.
 
Explain to me how you find, without using a third party tool, a particular class of module that you need for your ship if the station you're at isn't selling it? Or build reliable trade routes? Or learn which specific activities provide which specific G5 mats?

This is a bit rhetorical - again, been playing since beta, so I already know the answer to these, and the plain truth of it is, it involves a lot of trial and error. There is definitely a subset of player for whom that kind of thing has real appeal, and I'm not knocking it, per se.

But there's a word for something that requires the dedicated expenditure of time, energy, and experimentation to achieve.

That word is "difficult." ;)
Item 1 I Sola Prospect Brestla.
Item 2 Geological / Biosites
HGE spawns eg B Carinae
Orbital Installation with a fast ship & wake scanner
Abandoned settlements and a Maverick suit
 
Really? Discord, Ventrilo or equivalent? The specific "gameplay" might not require it but group play has often made it necessary or required it. Some games now offer ingame voice chat but a discord server is still often preferable.
Yes, voice chat is exception. I was thinking about information apps mostly.
Foxhole's in-game voice chat is pretty good though.
 
Really? Discord, Ventrilo or equivalent? The specific "gameplay" might not require it but group play has often made it necessary or required it. Some games now offer ingame voice chat but a discord server is still often preferable.
I don't know, Discord, Ventrilo is all about communication with other players not using it as a reference to see where you might find items for trading or specific services.
 
Usually with guides and such I read those offline and let me maybe inspire for what to do.
3rd party apps that show me map data or trade routes or recipe requirements - that's what I never used. MP games, I use what the game tells me, or some excited mate over voice chat.
If a game doesnt deliver exciting finds by itself and you need tools to find something interesting then tjere is sth wrong at the core.
 
Long Dark e.g. is survival game. You can look up stuff and such, but the game is simple enough to learn the basics of. The rest you learn by doing.
The Forest is similar, but you may not complete it - I never did - so what, if it's fun.
Never finished Stellaris or Barotrauma playthrough either. Often I have new playthrough idea and call the current one concluded annd start over.
There is always the next race pick or workshop item to try out.
I have still the epic incident sub that almost perished with end level character sacrifice in Baroteauma to continue. Most playthroughs dont yield the epuc moments, this one did (my own misfire and AoE blast took out my ship and characters)
 
I don't think I've ever played an MMO where 3rd party tools weren't available and used by a lot of players LOTRO, BDO, AO etc, they all had them and most players used them, ED isn't different in that regard. Sure you can play all of the games without them, it's a choice players make.
I always look at it this way... someone had to come first and write the "guides" to begin with... That means they had to figure it all out without additional info.

Some games are written with the intention of requiring a guide, some are not. There's also a distinction to be made regarding basics (game controls, mechanics, etc.) and additional information for "efficiency" (min/maxing, etc.) and what one requires from being guided, IMO.

I've always preferred the "wonder" of exploring something that doesn't hold my hand the entire time, personally.
To be fair, I guess a lot of these people might consider themselves to be genuine "fans" of the thing but they're simply cheesed-off that they keep finding things they don't like even though they keep hoping to find things they DO like.
Else they just want everything to be changed to suit their personal needs, as if the entire world revolved around their lives.

Edit: Also.... "Arise, oh great thread from 2020!!..."
 
But there are also 3rd party tools you've mentioned, like "Inara, EDDB or CMDRsToolBox" - and I absolutely don't think it's "essential", or "basically essential" to use them.
They are like cheats or like playing a game with walkthrough. It's so very easy to use them and it's so tempting, that it's no surprise majority of players use them

Prior to learning about Inara I kept my ship builds all written down on paper. Even the ship I was flying... Otherwise I could not determine its build unless docked at a stn and go into outfitting. Inara fixed this for me, presenting my basic ship build info in a reasonable manner. I certainly don't see it as a cheat to know my ship build.

Sometimes 3rd party tools aren't essential, but really nice filling gaps in what the game provides.

I agree that many online guides & walk-throughs are essentially cheats. Games shoot themselves in the foot when their quests & activities are bugged, illogical, or ridiculously obscure forcing players to look up answers. This has become very common with many games. The necessity of these types of assists is a reflection of the game.
 
I always look at it this way... someone had to come first and write the "guides" to begin with... That means they had to figure it all out without additional info.

Some games are written with the intention of requiring a guide, some are not. There's also a distinction to be made regarding basics (game controls, mechanics, etc.) and additional information for "efficiency" (min/maxing, etc.) and what one requires from being guided, IMO.

I've always preferred the "wonder" of exploring something that doesn't hold my hand the entire time, personally.

Else they just want everything to be changed to suit their personal needs, as if the entire world revolved around their lives.

Edit: Also.... "Arise, oh great thread from 2020!!..."
Yes, it's always better to discover a game yourself. It's basically the point of playing. It's just when players can't find trade routes that are decent nor the mats they require for the mandatory engineering upgrades, they look for help. And that streamlines the gameplay to City17-style Combine daily routine job.
 
Prior to learning about Inara I kept my ship builds all written down on paper. Even the ship I was flying... Otherwise I could not determine its build unless docked at a stn and go into outfitting. Inara fixed this for me, presenting my basic ship build info in a reasonable manner. I certainly don't see it as a cheat to know my ship build.

Sometimes 3rd party tools aren't essential, but really nice filling gaps in what the game provides.

I agree that many online guides & walk-throughs are essentially cheats. Games shoot themselves in the foot when their quests & activities are bugged, illogical, or ridiculously obscure forcing players to look up answers. This has become very common with many games. The necessity of these types of assists is a reflection of the game.
You make a good point here. I never felt that need in relation to ship builds (well, except when planning them with Coriolis), but when it comes to engineering materials, especially in Odyssey, game UI is of no help. I would even call it a mess. I'm baffled how it was left in such a state.
I need to make long list on paper, sum up materials I will need and keep that sheet close when I'm playing, checking it every time. I would not mind some 3rd part tool to help me there, if the game is bent on being really unfriendly in that aspect.

So yeah, there are some instances, where 3rd party tools serve as QoL improvements and are very welcome.
 
Its not an indictment of the game, it doesn't mean the 'devs are lazy', it just means there is a healthy community actively supporting a game they enjoy.
I feel like it's something you have to look at on a case by case basis. Like, it's better to have the best accessibility tools available for a game in that game as part of its design. But fan communities play a vital role in smoothing over the experience for newer players and extending a game's longevity.

When you can reasonably say that a significant portion of current or potential players simply would not play your game at all without access to community support, it's worth asking whether that situation is optimal or desired. That isn't to cast blame or indict anyone, devs or players or whatever. It's just a thing worth looking at.

And I suspect this is true of ED. Like, obviously, I've never done a census of the playerbase or whatever - I mean, this is a rubbish opinion on an Internet forum, so take it with a grain of salt. I could be wrong. Actually, I'd be happy to be wrong. But after almost eight years of watching the community around this game grow, people sharing their experiences, my own experiences with potential players, etc. I think it's a reasonable thesis.

On some level, I think we were always bound to have a clash of expectations with this game among its players, because it was designed to be obtuse on purpose, and that's a hard sell out of the gate. We're talking about a game where we accept that 34th century spacecraft have fewer automated control functions than 21st century automobiles, I mean... come on. :)
 
The main challenge in ED is summoning the willpower to grind. Which then begs the question, is the reward worth the grind. I'd argue for a lot of people it's not and that's where the burnout comes in. But that's a common problem across a lot of games that are designed to keep you playing year after year.
 
...Games shoot themselves in the foot when their quests & activities are bugged, illogical, or ridiculously obscure forcing players to look up answers. This has become very common with many games. The necessity of these types of assists is a reflection of the game.
I think the issue in the case of ED is the lack of proper documentation*...I mean there is documentation, but it is neither proper nor does it have the depth that the game requires...

* Proper Documentation covers the information required to play the game without external tools. Some to most of this documentation should be in game. In ED's case, the documentation falls short because it is incomplete and the bugs in the game make it worse. But it is still very far from unplayable as it is (not that anyone in here said anything like that, yet).
 
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