Genetic Sampler - Frontier was right all along

CMDR Fru

CMDR Fru
Can I just apologize for everybody to Frontier developers for doubting their design of the game mechanics surrounding genetic sampler?
I do hope so.

Matching rings mini-game, that perhaps needed little bit of tweaking, was a very good idea.
It made collecting samples engaging, nowadays it's not, to say the least.

Today the focus is on finding second and third specimens, back then that was the easy part,
and the main dish was the sampling process. In other words - focus was on science part, not on wandering about.

It proves that sometimes, players are wrong and developers are right.
I miss that mini-game a lot.

I know it would be foolish to ask Fdevs to bring it back just like that,
but perhaps there is a way to compromise here and appease those who would like to have it back and those who do not.

How about this then:
In addition to scanning and automatic sampling, third mode for sampler: manual sampling (mini-game), makes 2 out of 3 samples in one go,
while automatic mode just 1 out of three (just like now).

Meaning with that manual mode a player could get complete genetic sequence just from two sites,
if he/she would be willing to 'match the circles' at least once.

Elite was always about freedom, blaze your own trail, it's apparent in pretty much every game aspect.
Remember how we used to get second degree scan on the planets and stars for example?
We had to target it and get in in a certain distance to initiate the scan, nowadays we have FSS, so we don't have to
get close - but we still can, even today to do it the old way too. That's good.
It gives players options.

Adding to existing modes - sampler mini-game, would be beneficial as well, in my humble opinion.
What do you say, what do you think, am I on to something here?
 

Helvellyn

Helvellyn
An arbitrary mini-game doesn't sound fun... Mind you I wasn't in the alpha so can't really comment.

Ideally what I'd like is for a scientific task to require some scientific skills, not an arbitrary game. Far easier said than done of course.
 

HappyMoonMonkey

HappyMoonMonkey
The spinning circles needed to be time matched which could be frustrating of that's not your thing. Manually spinning the rings to match the patterns might make more sense in this context. Still sciencey enough?
 

varonica

varonica
The problem was always that some people simply wouldn't be able to do it, getting the sample should be simple because that's a simple task, but by making it a twitch mini-game people with physical disabilities (yes I do know some playing) and people who simply don't have good hand/eye coordination would simply not do the bio thing at all because it would be impossible for them to get a full sample, let alone 3 different sample of the same plant.

There are many ways they could have handled it without making it into the equivalent of a FPS twitch shooter and these were expressed during the beta, but by then it was to late, it was the twitch game or nothing.

Helvellyn said:
Ideally what I'd like is for a scientific task to require some scientific skills, not an arbitrary game. Far easier said than done of course.
Click to expand...

It always is, that would exclude some players, but they could have still gotten rewards just for collecting the turning in samples to vista genomics where they do the work, players who wanted to go further to analyse samples could have done so and got a larger reward for their efforts, maybe just advancing rank faster or more money, their choice.

Bigmaec said:
The spinning circle minigame was much better than the find thenext two samples at 800 and 1600m distance minigame, I agree.
Click to expand...

Ah but at the time we had both. My contention at the time was that going 150m away (for some plants) was essentially silly, you normally aren't going to get decent variation in that range, but that you should be able to get 3 samples from plants next to each other, maybe better rewards for collecting from mature and new sprouts, and the further you travel to get the sample the higher the reward, again make it a choice of rep or money, so if you collected samples from 3 different areas of the planet you get a big reward, a few hundred meters apart much smaller and etc. There were many ways they could have varied collection to make it worth players time but I suspect most of the dev time and thought was going on the shooty bits.

I've really stopped collecting samples from bio that only reward 50k, that's not a sum worth collecting, I just ping them with my scanner if they are a new codex discovery and leave because the 20+ minutes it takes me to land, run around and sample (specially if they are far apart species) means I can lose millions in system scan rewards for the same time and effort invested. I now only land (to get first footfall) and sometimes sample if EO tells me the body has a species not currently in my codex, and that's really it as bio goes, it's not a compelling game loop by any means, mainly because, well really it's all the same across the galaxy isn't it!
 

Brrokk

Brrokk
CMDR Fru said:
Can I just apologize for everybody to Frontier developers for doubting their design of the game mechanics surrounding genetic sampler?
I do hope so.

Matching rings mini-game, that perhaps needed little bit of tweaking, was a very good idea.
It made collecting samples engaging, nowadays it's not, to say the least.

Today the focus is on finding second and third specimens, back then that was the easy part,
and the main dish was the sampling process. In other words - focus was on science part, not on wandering about.

It proves that sometimes, players are wrong and developers are right.
I miss that mini-game a lot.

I know it would be foolish to ask Fdevs to bring it back just like that,
but perhaps there is a way to compromise here and appease those who would like to have it back and those who do not.

How about this then:
In addition to scanning and automatic sampling, third mode for sampler: manual sampling (mini-game), makes 2 out of 3 samples in one go,
while automatic mode just 1 out of three (just like now).

Meaning with that manual mode a player could get complete genetic sequence just from two sites,
if he/she would be willing to 'match the circles' at least once.

Elite was always about freedom, blaze your own trail, it's apparent in pretty much every game aspect.
Remember how we used to get second degree scan on the planets and stars for example?
We had to target it and get in in a certain distance to initiate the scan, nowadays we have FSS, so we don't have to
get close - but we still can, even today to do it the old way too. That's good.
It gives players options.

Adding to existing modes - sampler mini-game, would be beneficial as well, in my humble opinion.
What do you say, what do you think, am I on to something here?
Click to expand...
I never played the circles minigame, but it sounds like something that would annoy me; I don't play "twitch" games. Whatever minigame there is should be something to do with the space plants and be made easier by knowledge of them. A bit like knowing which way to tune on seeing the misaligned chevrons in the FSS.

Finding the second and third plant samples meets this criterion as a minigame. You have to get to know the types of terrain where certain plants appear, and how to recognise them from a distance, with or without night-vision and in whatever lighting the planet has. (When approaching the planet, take into account the colour of the terrain and the angle of sunlight).

BTW, one thing I really like about exobiology is that it's made the Cobra a great ship again!
 

EdzUp

EdzUp
Having played the spinny minigame i can say it was problematic at best, i would have sooner seen something like the Elder scrolls lock picking mechanic where with a bit of luck you would get it done. The spinning circles was to much luck as the intermittent frame rate didnt make it easy at all to do.
 

Alec Turner

Alec Turner
Personally I'd reinstate the spinning circles mini-game but make accurately aligning the circles be optional. So I'd have it that you need something like 2 x accurate (perfectly aligned) scans, 3 x moderately (maybe within 5°) aligned scans or 4 x badly aligned (+/- 10°) scans (with the option to retry a poor scan to get it better).

Partly the point is not to make it a game to win or lose but simply to add some form of engaging interaction beyond just holding down a button for a fixed period of time.
 
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Mark Zero

M
Normally I want to agree with anybody who is pro-listen to the devs and anti-players whining. But in this one instance, I gotta disagree. I realized the "locking the rings" minigame had problems when I watched Arf trying to do it on stream and having one literally stump him. He sat there for I think a good 5 minutes trying to lock in the sequence and having it fail him back after the first ring, over and over again. If Arf couldn't do it, it makes sense that quite a few other people couldn't do it.

I think they could've kept the minigame with some tweaking, though. Maybe by increasing the capture window or reducing the rotation speed by a small amount. Either would've made the mechanic more forgiving, and therefore less frustrating. Taking it out entirely was effective at solving the problem, but did make the gameplay loop more boring.

I do hope they eventually revisit the sample collection mechanic to add something satisfyingly engaging to using the tool; something on par with the level of engagement from shooting probes at a planet or using a subsurface displacement missile.
 

Guyperson

Guyperson
During the alpha test the minigame was widely reviled, but not because it was a minigame.
A reflex or quicktime event just doesn't fit the theme and clashed poorly with the skill set of a lot of exploration oriented players. I can't speak for everyone else but what I'd have preferred for that activity would have been something more puzzle-like. Such as manually rotating the rings to match up a pattern for the specimen's genone.
Of course now we know they were rushing Odyssey out the door at that time so they couldn't put the time or effort into reworking the minigame and instead just removed it entirely.
 

CMDR Fru

CMDR Fru
I am fully aware that it's not everybody's cup of tea,
that's why, with that in mind, I would like to have it as an addition - not a replacement,
addition with additional benefits to sampling :)

in the end more options for all players to chose from
 
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