Latest CG, the clearest example of P2W in ED to date?

[Greasetrap42]

Longterm players may not look so kindly on making all their old ships fully obsolete that took a lot of time engineering and then having to do it all again on the new ships. That already happened when engineering V2 came in, and it wasn't pretty.

I agree. That's why I stopped playing WoW 10 years ago. I got tired of all my hard work becoming obsolete in the next update.

But many will argue its what keeps a game new and fresh. Unlike WoW new ships aren't gained through hard work or achievements... we just buy them then spend a bunch of low-skill mundane hours outfitting and engineering them just like we did with our old ships.

It would be nice if new ships were designed for new activities, rather than simply replacing old ships for the exact same activities.

 

[WillFrog]

Not sure why you are using the Olympics as an example. According to your definition, the Olympics are not a COMPETITION, they are a TASK. Just run the 100m in 0.1s and you will get your gold medal. If you can't be bothered, you clearly don't care enough.

What? No. Olympic athletes are actually directly competing against one another. And 0.1s?!? What are you talking about. This is more like if the requirements were to travel 100m in the course of 28 days, it was open to the general public with no qualifiers, and everybody who crossed the finish line got a gold medal. Then it would be comparable and also no longer a competition.

Are all the people bothered by this pure combat players that never do hauling or something? Is it simply not understanding how quick and easy it is to move a couple of thousand tons? I don't get it.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

This CG is quite profitable (MkII Racks aside) no matter what you decide to haul with. With 10x selling prices ANYONE can make a nice profit regardless of which ship they are using. Where else are you going to make such a simple 9x profit when trading?

So much whining...

As the OP of this thread, i'm loving how many credits i'm earning, but that doesn't affect the core point of my argument. CGs are pretty much participation awards, everyone's a winner to some extent, and with this CG, everyone wins. But having a PC means you can win more.

 

[St0rmFury]

As the OP of this thread, i'm loving how many credits i'm earning, but that doesn't affect the core point of my argument. CGs are pretty much participation awards, everyone's a winner to some extent, and with this CG, everyone wins. But having a PC means you can win more.

inb4 "but what do you wiiinn??!!?"

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

but what do you wiiinn??!!?

Had to be done.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

P2W is an absurd discussion with the Panther Clipper. Because I already won the game. 6 months ago

Ah, you also found Raxxla! Be sure not to tell anyone of course, otherwise the curse you get told about upon finding it will find you!!!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Longterm players may not look so kindly on making all their old ships fully obsolete that took a lot of time engineering and then having to do it all again on the new ships. That already happened when engineering V2 came in, and it wasn't pretty.

For me its not so much the effort put into engineering, but the paintjobs and ship kits i paid for.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

What? No. Olympic athletes are actually directly competing against one another.

 

[WillFrog]

Stop it with the reaction gifs. Anyone who doesn't get the second set of cargo racks from this didn't want them, Nobody is going to lose out except by not participating at all. Why do I have to keep restating the blindingly obvious? I give up.

And after a full weekend of enthusiastic hauling, the requirement has now reached a whopping 2,867 tons! Gasp! Nobody could ever manage such a herculean feat without paying real money for a PC!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Stop it with the reaction gifs.

 

[Greasetrap42]

Stop it with the reaction gifs. Anyone who doesn't get the second set of cargo racks from this didn't want them, Nobody is going to lose out except by not participating at all. Why do I have to keep restating the blindingly obvious? I give up.

Because you are missing the obvious.

You keep arguing your definition of P2W. Your definition of P2W has nothing to do with the discussion of Original Post.

As stated above the OP said:

The new CG is in effect an extra reward to those who opened their wallets.

Which is absolutely true. The CG is an extra reward for anybody that purchased the PC II and participated in the CG. A player using the Panther Clipper will reach their desired level in the CG quicker an/or make more credits than other players not using this ship.


It is weird that you are arguing this obvious fact.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

Stop it with the reaction gifs. Anyone who doesn't get the second set of cargo racks from this didn't want them, Nobody is going to lose out except by not participating at all. Why do I have to keep restating the blindingly obvious? I give up.

I'll believe that when you present the poll among the 25% that didn't make the cut confirming that they didn't want to. At the time of this post that's 6171 participants to poll.

 

[WillFrog]

Because you are missing the obvious.

You keep arguing your definition of P2W. Your definition of P2W has nothing to do with the discussion of Original Post.

As stated above the OP said:

Which is absolutely true. The CG is an extra reward for anybody that purchased the PC II and participated in the CG. A player using the Panther Clipper will reach their desired level in the CG quicker an/or make more credits than other players not using this ship.


It is weird that you are arguing this obvious fact.

I'm not arguing against that. That is all completely true. I'm saying that what other players do and how much they earn is of no consequence to me or anyone else, and it is completely irrelevant for reaching the goal of getting the extra cargo rack reward.

I'll believe that when you present the poll among the 25% that didn't make the cut confirming that they didn't want to. At the time of this post that's 6171 participants to poll.

Well, I obviously can't prove it definitively, but if I see a single post here, on Reddit, or anywhere saying, "I desperately wanted those extra racks, but I just couldn't find an hour's worth of playing time in an entire month," I will be extremely surprised.

 

[galahad2069]

People keep asking this.

The answer is time.

Lets say you and another player have both got into the top 75% and you are both fine with that, you just want the extra modules.. Current cut off is 10,000 tons and you are both just over that. A week later, the cut off is now 12,000.

So you both go, damn, need to make more deliveries, i still want those extra modules.

Now, you, in your PC, only need 2 runs to get back into the top 75%, but the person without needs 3 runs to do the same. You have gained a time advantage over the person who hasn't opened their wallet.

It's baffling that you need to give such a detailed explanation of the obvious.

But I'm sure there are people who would not get it even if you drew a picture or something.

 

[angusmadmac1]

I'm not arguing against that. That is all completely true. I'm saying that what other players do and how much they earn is of no consequence to me or anyone else, and it is completely irrelevant for reaching the goal of getting the extra cargo rack reward.

But it does , Fdev have seen that commanders are quite happy opening their wallets and are probably wondering how much they can get away with .
We've already accepted
The devaluing of arx
The rise in cost of arx
And now cause it's a big ship.
What next ?
Bread and and circuses at least for me .

 

[Greasetrap42]

I'm not arguing against that. That is all completely true. I'm saying that what other players do and how much they earn is of no consequence to me or anyone else, and it is completely irrelevant for reaching the goal of getting the extra cargo rack reward.

Great. So you aren't arguing your definition of P2W and you are in agreement with the essence of what the OP is saying? That the Panther Clipper currently is only available in the game store and enables players to reach their desired level in the CG quicker and/or make more credits than other players not using this ship.

Furthermore, 50% of the players engaged in this CG are obviously interested more than just extra cargo racks. Accumulating more credits? Or competing against each other for the top 10 positions. Or maybe these players are delivering extra loads of stuff reasons of PP, BGS or RP reasons? Maybe? Whatever the reason, I believe it is true that the Panther Clipper achieves these goals better than any other ship available.

So, with respect to the Original Post what exactly are you trying to say?

You don't need a Panther Clipper to achieve these goals? Okay sure, but not relevant to the Original Post.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I've just hit the top 50% of the CG. Woo hoo. In a type 9.

Has it changed my opinion of my OP? Not one whit! I've hauled over 7000t. If i had a PC i'd have hauled close to 10,000 tons. Over the coming weeks, that could be the difference between top 50% and to 25%.

 

[angusmadmac1]

I've just hit the top 50% of the CG. Woo hoo. In a type 9.

Has it changed my opinion of my OP? Not one whit! I've hauled over 7000t. If i had a PC i'd have hauled close to 10,000 tons. Over the coming weeks, that could be the difference between top 50% and to 25%.

That's the worry as the more hauling there is the bigger the difference of the totals from the cheaty smelly and downright ugly PC and the superb sweet smelling beautiful graceful lines of the cutter .

 

[WillFrog]

Great. So you aren't arguing your definition of P2W and you are in agreement with the essence of what the OP is saying? That the Panther Clipper currently is only available in the game store and enables players to reach their desired level in the CG quicker and/or make more credits than other players not using this ship.

Furthermore, 50% of the players engaged in this CG are obviously interested more than just extra cargo racks. Accumulating more credits? Or competing against each other for the top 10 positions. Or maybe these players are delivering extra loads of stuff reasons of PP, BGS or RP reasons? Maybe? Whatever the reason, I believe it is true that the Panther Clipper achieves these goals better than any other ship available.

So, with respect to the Original Post what exactly are you trying to say?

You don't need a Panther Clipper to achieve these goals? Okay sure, but not relevant to the Original Post.

It IS relevant because the OP was saying that someone who bought a Panther Clipper will have gained an advantage over someone who didn't. But the only thing it will help you do is make more credits faster, which is entirely meaningless when credits are so easy to come by. The advantage you get when trying to reach top 75% is so small as to be inconsequential. It's literally one extra load if you have to use a Cutter.

The general thrust of the opposing argument seems to be that FD are trying to entice people to buy the new ship and that this is somehow bad. But as far as I see it, A, encouraging sales is a perfectly reasonable thing for a company to be doing, and B, you can just ... not buy one and continue on your merry way. It will make no difference to your game whatsoever. You can still get the extra cargo racks and still make billions from this CG. You'll make a bit less, sure, but so what? Go do any one of the myriad of other things that have huge payouts.

 

[evanevery]

Longterm players may not look so kindly on making all their old ships fully obsolete that took a lot of time engineering and then having to do it all again on the new ships. That already happened when engineering V2 came in, and it wasn't pretty.

...and it pretty much happens with automobiles every couple of years as well. Your old cars (ships) simply become classics.

Maybe the best course of action is to stop selling the "old" ships (just like old cars) so folks who have them can have something "classic" that new players can't acquire. At least then the older ships would be sorta special in their own way.