2.2 Why introduce restricted or niche features that will have low overall use?

[Cmdr Esteban]

How can you disagree with a question.

Lol. Reminds me of poorly written corporate surveys.

How well do your daily duties align with the strategic objectives of the organisation?

Strongly agree
Agree
Not sure
Disagree
Strongly disagree

Wwwwhat?

I see this all the time. Drives me nuts.

Sorry, strayed from the topic a bit there...

 

[Fasty]

An idea to make the passenger missions slightly more engaging would be to have "tours" instead of single destinations. You have to visit the locations in the order on the itinerary, which give you places to visit on the way there and on the way back, that don't deviate too far off course.

 

[Siranui]

How can you disagree with a question.

The classic example would be:

"How often do you beat your wife?"

Sometimes when a question is so heavily slanted or inapplicable to the reader, any answer to it can be 'wrong'.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

In terms of niche value...2.2 caters fer those with, while those without face even more grind. This update is all but meaningless in that respect...to those of us with one small ship, and just a few credits. If there are those who can't see the issues, then prove me wrong and do a wipe and start from scratch in the current game.

What a bull. Passengers are accessible to Cobra MkIII with 30 - 40k investment, heck even Hauler can do them. Please stop.

 

[Siranui]

An idea to make the passenger missions slightly more engaging would be to have "tours" instead of single destinations. You have to visit the locations in the order on the itinerary, which give you places to visit on the way there and on the way back, that don't deviate too far off course.

I haven't actually done any passenger missions yet, due to spending most of my time flying at low altitude over a ball of dirt looking for aliens, but I was under the impression multi-stop routes were already implemented, albeit without any preference for order of visitation. Is that not correct?

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I haven't actually done any passenger missions yet, due to spending most of my time flying at low altitude over a ball of dirt looking for aliens, but I was under the impression multi-stop routes were already implemented, albeit without any preference for order of visitation. Is that not correct?

There are wrinkles for specific passengers, which says where you have to go. But it happens during missions, not stated before you take them.

 

[Conflictus]

Why does this game attract people who have no desire to build themselves up in the game. I have a hard time wrapping my head around a game where there are no upgrades, no levelling, no modifying, no money. Would it be different if you say had to be level 60 or something before you could outfit fighters for example. Or would there still be social justice warriors crying foul, how do you have a game that can be competitive and varied when no one can have a single item, feature or credit beyond what others have in a get an award for participating world. If this ideology was how games have been in the past or god forbid we're founded on we would have a lot of bland, vanilla boring games to play. But hey you would get a fully engineered vet or conda dumped in your lap after the training missions just for logging in and saying hi....

 

[askavir]

An idea to make the passenger missions slightly more engaging would be to have "tours" instead of single destinations. You have to visit the locations in the order on the itinerary, which give you places to visit on the way there and on the way back, that don't deviate too far off course.

Wish granted!

There already ARE tours with multiple destinations. The order you travel to each one is up to the player though, honestly I prefer it that way.

 

[TKensington]

My general premise is that these features will not see as much use as they could of because of restrictions and prohibitive cost making them being used less frequently. The Passenger missions are niche because I'm pretty sure after the novelty has worn off not many people will do them for reasons I described. But note I did put a suggestion at the end of each feature to say how they could be improved for more general and frequent consumption.

I also love the passenger missions. I'm planning to do a lot of the explorations missions and fitted Bite My Shiny Metal Asp with a size 6 passenger module. There are some things I'd like them to change but I'm sure others wouldn't (Federation slave smuggling missions...Really???) I think the additions of the fighters, especially with the Keelback which doesn't fly too poorly (tried it for a day) is a good thing. Passenger missions, I love them as I love exploration. I'm happy to get missions that will make me credits while I explore. If two of us on the post feel the same way, I'm sure there are many others who do also.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Why does this game attract people who have no desire to build themselves up in the game. I have a hard time wrapping my head around a game where there are no upgrades, no levelling, no modifying, no money. Would it be different if you say had to be level 60 or something before you could outfit fighters for example. Or would there still be social justice warriors crying foul, how do you have a game that can be competitive and varied when no one can have a single item, feature or credit beyond what others have in a get an award for participating world. If this ideology was how games have been in the past or god forbid we're founded on we would have a lot of bland, vanilla boring games to play. But hey you would get a fully engineered vet or conda dumped in your lap after the training missions just for logging in and saying hi....

It is related to overall arch of some gamers wanting to have "game of everything" - where everything is accessable, they can do everything they desire, and it looks spectacular, they don't have to pay much for it, etc. It's a bit tied with 'gamers entitlement', but is exposure of much more complex psychological features of human mind.

 

[evoelise]

The headline features I kind of agree with the OP

• Ship Launched Fighters, I tried it out. It was OK. But the cost of hiring pilots and the reduced cargo space means I won't be using them again. They're not effective enough for the cost.
• Passenger Missions. I got an A-rated Beluga with some engineering mods and spent the last 2 days running passenger missions. I've found them to be less lucrative than A-B hauling and a lot more hassle (frustrating hassle rather than fun hassle). So as of now I'm back in my Cutter.

But the "lesser" features added, the QOL additions are welcome and make the upgrade for me.

• Ship transport is OK, module transport is great.
• The new engineers are something I'll use for sure.
• The tiny change to add the map route filtering option is one of the best feature of 2.2.

 

[DaveB]

Why does this game attract people who have no desire to build themselves up in the game. I have a hard time wrapping my head around a game where there are no upgrades, no levelling, no modifying, no money. Would it be different if you say had to be level 60 or something before you could outfit fighters for example. Or would there still be social justice warriors crying foul, how do you have a game that can be competitive and varied when no one can have a single item, feature or credit beyond what others have in a get an award for participating world. If this ideology was how games have been in the past or god forbid we're founded on we would have a lot of bland, vanilla boring games to play. But hey you would get a fully engineered vet or conda dumped in your lap after the training missions just for logging in and saying hi....

Short answer, because that wouldn't be "Elite".

Longer answer: "Levelling" is something that annoys me, it's an artificial device that is overlayed on a game to reward player time. It then becomes a goal in itself and takes over the whole game "feel". I think it's a good thing that ED doesn't have that. The game offers "things to do" and to be sure not every player wants to do all of them. So long as there is "something" in the game folks want to do, they'll keep playing it and doing those things. Back in '84 they said Elite would fail because it wasn't "3 lives and multiple play levels", now there are folks saying ED is a bad game because it doesn't have all these tropes from other current games. That's bull, it's Elite, it's not those other games. There's no requirement on folks to like or play this game, and indeed many wont. But those of us that do like playing Elite will continue to play it and enjoy it. The player coming in to this game seeking to "win" by having the biggest baddest ship, the most gargantuan credit balance and all three elite decals plastered on the side of his pimped-out ride is going to see it as a grind-fest, is going to be ultimately dissatisfied with even achieving those goals. They are not Elite's target market and they will come and go, complete with their complaints about the content. It's about making your own way in an uncaring universe as an independent entrepreneur, not about being some kind of gamer-god ruling the galaxy. It's "niche" because it isn't all those other things. That's also what makes it "Elite".

 

[Alien]

I like the 2.2 update, but I'm trying to figure out the strategy of producing exciting and interesting features that then have limited player use because they are niche or have too many restrictions to use. Does it make sense to spend all that development time on main features that are designed for low frequency use.

Examples:

2.2 Fighters

A great idea but most of the ships that you can fit a hanger in are the ones most people don't want to fly, can't afford, or don't have the rank for them. So this becomes a niche feature for a minority of players, unless you want to downgrade your ship to use them. I think once the novelty has worn off few people will use them.

List of ships that can use fighter:

Anaconda - Nice if you already own, otherwise base ship cost is 146.9 mil (grade E).

Type 9 - Personally only flew one once, and that was enough for me/most others. Ship cost 76.5 mil (grade E).

Federal Corvette - Requires 12th Fed rank (Rear Admiral). Ship cost 187.9 mil (grade E).

Imperial Cutter - Requires 12th Empire rank (Duke). Ship cost 208.9 mil (grade E).

Beluga - Role specific - refer to Passengers comments below. Ship cost 78.9 mil (grade E).

Federal Gunship - Requires 7th Fed rank (Ensign). Relatively cheap though at 35.8 mil (grade E). Personally I find this the worst medium combat ship to fly on par with the Dropship.

Keelback - Nice starter trading ship at the base bargain price of 3.1 mil (grade E). You get what you pay for.

What can be done about this (suggestion):

Add hangers to a larger range of medium and large ships so this feature is used and enjoyed by more people.

2.2 Ship transfers:

A great QoL feature that everyone wanted and loves, but for some reason it has both a high time sink and a high credit sink attached to it. Why do we need two sinks on this feature? People voted for the time sink, but we have a high price to pay as well especially on large ships. The effect being another feature that has limited use and hence an unnecessary limited QoL improvement.

What can be done about this (suggestion):

Kill two birds with one stone (note: no birds were actually harmed in the production of this thread). Significantly lower the cost of ship transfers, and add an option to pay the vanilla price if you want faster (express) ship transfers.

2.2 Passenger Missions:

I guess technically this is not a feature, but content, however it is featured content. Another niche addition that that most people may try a few times before giving up on it, except for dedicated travel agents. Some of the first missions I saw that were worth 3-4 million for a 1300 Lyrs journey, presumably you will then want to go back to your turf afterwards which is a return journey of another 1300 Lyrs. This is not taking into account that you will be stacking missions, i.e. that means detours on the way.

I did a 5000 Lyr journey for an engineering unlock in a fully engineered D-rated Explorer Asp and that took a very very long time. In a Beluga (even modded) long journeys would just be even more painful. The payouts are just not worth that level of boredom. Sure some people will love it, but it will ultimately be a niche group, i.e. not many people doing them.

What can be done about this (suggestion):

Not much you can you do with this without adding more content really. Maybe increase the the payout substantially, add multiple very rare mats like MEF to the payout and reduce the distance needed to travel...and even then.

Conclusion:

It would be nice if less niche/restrictive features are added in future, and features that have been added are less prohibitive to use.

To answer the OP ... Some of the features may be "niche" and of limited use now, but they lay the groundwork for expanding on those features further into development.

Many on this forum have been here since the kickstarter, and have seen this game develop almost from nothing. The general pattern Frontier had shown is:
Put a feature in with limited features and use.
Bug fix and get that feature working smoothly
Expand on that feature with more features and use and variety
Bug fix on the feature and get it working even more smoothly
Expand again and bug fix ... unless feature is considered done or complete or complete until other features are at a sufficient stage.

YOU might think X is limited now, but you and I are not privvy to Frontier's development meetings and what their roadmap / list is.
Have faith, and trust that Frontier know what they are doing

 

[Kaybe]

1) Fighters are meant to be niche. Ships with fighter bays are balanced with those in mind. Call them 'pet classes' if you will. They are the only ships that will have them. Deal with it. Personally, I'm very much in love with my Keelback and have tweaked her like mad in 2.1. And on top of that, they even buffed her in 2.2. Very pleased. Still waiting on paint jobs, mind you.

2) Passenger missions are NOT niche. While only the Orca and Beluga can slot luxury cabins, all other cabins are available to all ships. Plus if I'm already planning on doing some exploration and someone is offering me 60 million to bring them along to the core, why would I say no? I don't know what stations you land at, but my home port is a high tech station in a boom state and there are TONS of high paying passenger missions available.

3) Instant ship transfers have been discussed over and over and over already. Let it go. You're not going to be able to use your Asp as an anchor for your Corvette. Ship transfers are not meant to circumvent travel times.

 

[Privata]

To answer the OP ... Some of the features may be "niche" and of limited use now, but they lay the groundwork for expanding on those features further into development.

Many on this forum have been here since the kickstarter, and have seen this game develop almost from nothing. The general pattern Frontier had shown is:
Put a feature in with limited features and use.
Bug fix and get that feature working smoothly
Expand on that feature with more features and use and variety
Bug fix on the feature and get it working even more smoothly
Expand again and bug fix ... unless feature is considered done or complete or complete until other features are at a sufficient stage.

YOU might think X is limited now, but you and I are not privvy to Frontier's development meetings and what their roadmap / list is.
Have faith, and trust that Frontier know what they are doing

In a way its the best way to do something.

With every update FD's updates are getting bigger and bigger and we are getting closer and closer to the ''big'' stuff.

 

[Mark Lock]

Fighters: this feature is designed for big but weaker ships to have a chance to fight back, if you have a combat ship, you need no fighters to protect your ship, I have the impression however by the time you drop the fighter you could jump instead , unless you are attacked by a ship of similar size, in this case shields will be gone before you even start to fight back, I would suggest far stronger shields on all those ships

Ship Transfer: is good in my opinion, I suggest to keep it like this

Passenger missions: they pay well enough

 

[V'larr]

It's the cost that's being reduced.The time remains the same.

Michael

Regarding that cost, have you seen the graph(s) made by this user? Here's the link:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=4683240&viewfull=1#post4683240

I think the figures shown there are just about perfect, personally.

 

[milligna]

I absolutely love ship-launched fighters. It makes perfect sense to put them in the game in 2.2 so they can work out the gameplay AND have it available to make multicrew vastly more fun in 2.3 than just manning a turret.

Even if it isn't your normal playstyle, I definitely suggest taking out the previously useless Keelback or somesuch with a crewmember and messing with the new fighters. They are a real joy planetside! Definitely one of my favorite updates even tho 2.3 is the one i'm really jonesing for.

 

[Oktusha]

All I like everything they added to be honest. However, I will also be honest in saying that I will NEVER, EVER, run a passenger mission as far as they want to go for the amount offered in some cases... I'm not even remotely close to doing that. I don't care if you could get lucky enough to stack 5 of those going to the same place and end up with 200-300 million credits. That long of a trip is not even close to being worth it if you look at the time involved vs payout. Not in my book....

 

[SentineI]

A great idea but most of the ships that you can fit a hanger in are the ones most people don't want to fly, can't afford, or don't have the rank for them. So this becomes a niche feature for a minority of players, unless you want to downgrade your ship to use them. I think once the novelty has worn off few people will use them.

I think Ship Launched Fighters is one answer to the question many people have posed: "What do you DO once you've grinded for that hugely expensive ship?" One answer now being "Have more fun by using Ship Launched Fighters"... And once they add Multi-Crew for 2.3, the answer will be even more compelling, because you'll be able to get other people to fly in your big spaceship, and use your fighter(s) when they want. (Kinda like a cut-down Star Citizen thing, which lots of people are excited about the idea of.)

Another issue with big ships is that they're also slower, and not always as fun as the smaller nible ships. Until now some people might have found a big ship to be a downgrade in terms of enjoyment. Now it's not such a compromise.

Basically Ship Launched Fighters fixes some problems with Elite Dangerous's "late game" experience, and so will hopefully mean people play ED for longer. They're more likely to stick-around & so buy the next major Expansion (i.e. 3.0), which is good for FDev's bottom line, and so good for the game in the long run (as it can keep being developed).

Also, imagine if they'd put Multi-Crew for 2.2, and left Ship Launched Fighters for 2.3 . People would be like "What's the POINT for Multi-Crew? There's hardly anything to do, and you're trapped on the ship until it docks." But now, with Ship Launched Fighters already available, Multi-Crew won't be nearly so frustrating, because you can always leave the ship... I'm still NOT convinced Multi-Crew is going to be fantastic (we'll have to see what things FDev allow you to do), but at least it won't be a completely useless feature (which will give FDev some breathing space to develop it further, e.g. walking around inside your ship).