I'm just going to stop arguing with you. I bad taste in my mouth reading all your points.
2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?
- Thread starter Kintch
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I'm just going to stop arguing with you. I bad taste in my mouth reading all your points.
Well..... In todays youtube gamescon video Sandro answered that exact question........They will be working on that, but not for 2.2.Well, you already can 3D print missiles. It is called Synthesis. Also, you can 3D print SRV fuel, Ammo, AFMU ammo etc. The only thing which is not clear to me is - why the hell this 3D printer is not able to print the heatsink ammo.
Flimley
The history of 3D printing
https://3dprintingindustry.com/3d-pr...guide/history/
Now imagine it's the year 3302 and mankind has achieved everything that is Elite Dangerous. Think terraforming planets, think of the god knows how many space stations mankind has built, think where do they store all the ships that are for sale in shipyards. I think us humans would be able to do pretty amazing things on the most expensive cutting edge giant industrial 3D printer of the year 3302. I'll just imagine that my ships design blueprints are encrypted, and my character is the one who loads said blueprints into said 3D printer and presses print. Also engineered mods that are installed on your ship are just that, they are engineered so in theory could be replicated.
Also I doubt Jacques Station would be a place you could transfer to and from. I would quiet like to see it available at ONLY high tech stations.
There's my thoughts
https://3dprintingindustry.com/3d-pr...guide/history/
Now imagine it's the year 3302 and mankind has achieved everything that is Elite Dangerous. Think terraforming planets, think of the god knows how many space stations mankind has built, think where do they store all the ships that are for sale in shipyards. I think us humans would be able to do pretty amazing things on the most expensive cutting edge giant industrial 3D printer of the year 3302. I'll just imagine that my ships design blueprints are encrypted, and my character is the one who loads said blueprints into said 3D printer and presses print. Also engineered mods that are installed on your ship are just that, they are engineered so in theory could be replicated.
Also I doubt Jacques Station would be a place you could transfer to and from. I would quiet like to see it available at ONLY high tech stations.
There's my thoughts
I choose to lump the small fraction together with the instant crowd for a reason. Of course, you can group the different votes however you want. My conculsion was based off my chosen grouping, and i think its one that FD might also apply.
Why?
Because those voting a small % are effectively voting for instant!
Why?
How long does it take to travel from A to B in the galaxy? It depends on ship and loadout and cargo etc right? But most of the action is around the core systems. Even a combat fitted FdL can make that in... oh, let's be pessemistic and say 30 mins. What is a small fraction of that time (as per voting options)... 10%? 20%? So, they are voting for a max of 10 mins delay for most scenarios. Meh.... land, call your ship, brew a cup of tea, and your ship has arrived. It might as well be instant.
That's why i grouped them.
Now, if you want to examime the situation with, for example, people calling their combat fitted FdLs to Jacques, after having flown there in their Asps. Well, this one might be more up for grabs. This one is more heavily dependent on how much it costs and whether the cost is linear or exponential, and how much the ship cost is.
You might think, hey, those nasty griefers will call their optimized FdLs to Jacques! Indeed, they might! It might cost them a million? Hmm... cheap. 10 million? Ouch,... but hey, they are PvPers, 10 million is pretty usual cost of death. 100 million? Wow... erm.. not sure its worth it. 1 billion!!! No way, forget that, i'll fly it there myself!
Until we see the final figures FD set, its hard to say if long range transfer will be a show stopper or not. Depending on the cost, even local (bubble) travel could be expensive.
Anyway, back to the main point, people really need to consider more closely what they think is the problem. At a very minumum, do some number crunching in their heads.
"Oh, woe is me! That nasty PvPer can summon their FdL from a few systems over! If ship teleport wasn't there, it would never happen!"... yeah, right. Ok, they wouldn't have the option to downgrade their FSD to a 1E (and why i personally hope FD ensure the ship is capable of actually making the journey), but really, if a PvPer is so into optimization, they probably already have rank 5 upgrades on everything, and you will already be toasted before you can say "But I also support Aisling!!!"
It's a good point, but I don't see gameplay decisions as right or wrong. There's too much personal preference involved. It's like the "you either like bacon or you're wrong" meme.
They're practical or not. (And much of the engineers stuff was just plain unpractical).
Maybe an option between a cheaper but delayed and a faster but more expensive could be added.
They most certainly can calculate the median/average hourly gains and balance time with money.
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Right , but why then are games like elite , Xwing and all that called ''simulations''
Its a simulation of a science fiction universe.
By your logic , beyond a few games no space game was ever a simulation...
Because even those with realistic physics have a lot unrealistic features.
Its a simulation , its called that officialy , the devs call it that , the press call it that , the users call it that way as well.
And space emulation does not thave the same ring to it...
I would love elite to be the space version of VBS3 but... never going to happen.
Do you mind lasers , space windows , nearly no change in human evolution , no changes in language , stars that dont blind you (yes I know there is a lore reason for that) and so on?
I would at least like the ability to sell ships that I have stored elsewhere.
Little off thread - I think FD will come to regret using the 3D printer analogy. Taken to it's logical conclusion the only thing that should be in demand is raw (elements) materials - we should all be mining - and possibly food. My ship should have one and I can make what I need when I need it - if we follow their logic. Not a good state for a game that requires moving things around.Well, you already can 3D print missiles. It is called Synthesis. Also, you can 3D print SRV fuel, Ammo, AFMU ammo etc. The only thing which is not clear to me is - why the hell this 3D printer is not able to print the heatsink ammo.
omg..
1. Why do people bother transporting anything other than raw materials anywhere?
2. Why are there famines and supply crises?
3. Why do stations have a stock limit, and some outright don't have certain ships.
4. Why are ships printed with chipped paint, dirty windows, old chairs and stains on the leather?
It just doesn't add up.
I stupidly started my own thread about this, which of course got shut down. Here's me arguing with myself about this:
Elite Dangerous is a much thought-through game where the science fiction elements invoked have consequences: the galaxy is based on the real Milky Way and the politics and economics are embedded in the Background Simulation.
Some things seem to stop a bit short of being completely work through, though. One of these features are the respawn ability of our player characters and of our ships: As an argument in favour of instant ship transfer: We already have it. It has already been mentioned elsewhere that upon death we are conveniently respawning on the last station or outpost we visited. It logically follows that we and our ships are stored as some sort of pattern which is then printed at the last update point. If I understand correctly, our ships have the same ability if we die in an SRV, although not with the ability to print a new SRV in its current form.
If FD decides to flesh out the logic behind player (and ship) respawn, this can lead to a few interesting additions: One might be a Sick Bay module that we might respawn in if the ship loses life support. Maybe such module has limited ship control features and we can bring the ship home that way. We could also have more advanced SRV hangers that similar to the fighter hangers can print new SRVS. Just ideas.
The suggested ability to instantly transfer ships and modules from station to station is already causing some commotion here on the forum. There is no reason we shouldn't be able to do this if our own ability to respawn is accepted as a game world feature and not just as an MMO convenience. The pattern of each of our ships must be known and stored somewhere, so printing a copy elsewhere should be simple enough. All it would take would be the right facilities and materials.
Maybe the snag is in facilities and materials. Our ability to do so upon death/ship destruction is a deal between the Pilots Federation and the rest of humankind it seems. The PF must be running the necessary facilities and paying the locals for the procedure while asking us for a cut through our insurance. But also having us be able to transfer our ships around on our own may be too much: We would have to pay the difference between a completely new ship with the modules and modifications included, and the cost of the raw materials left behind at the original location. The original ship would have to be destroyed, or we would just be able to duplicate the best configurations. Unless we accept teleportation, and then the question is why we would bother flying through space in the first place.
Maybe only a certain type of stations and a certain size and type of economy can handle the costs of running ship fabrication facilities? One could then argue that this should also be the case for "spawn points": Smaller outposts and stations might not have the facilities and materials available, so death would mean refabrication from patterns at the last well-equipped station. That would lead to "iron man zones" possibly in low security areas.
I am not against instant ship transfer if it comes with a cost and the procedure is extended to how our deaths are dealt with. It's fine to keep respawning of ourselves as near-instant, as that may be the highest priority print jobs on dedicated Pilots Federation facilities. But the ship transfers might be added to a queue and take a little while, if not necessarily as long as travelling from A to B manually. And it should cost, as I'd assume that PF is not paying for our whims and conveniences, and the locals are not willing to part with the necessary materials for free.
In short: Instant transfer is fine, as long as it is logically inserted into the game world. And while you are at it, dear FD, you could revamp the death-system a bit so it looks less like an MMO convenience and more like science fiction concept? The model I propose here will allow for "iron man zones", which will be a nice hybrid substitute for the true Iron Man Mode that the game still doesn't have. And that I'd like to see, have long hoped for an iron man mode that is just not a self-imposed one.
S
Elite Dangerous is a much thought-through game where the science fiction elements invoked have consequences: the galaxy is based on the real Milky Way and the politics and economics are embedded in the Background Simulation.
Some things seem to stop a bit short of being completely work through, though. One of these features are the respawn ability of our player characters and of our ships: As an argument in favour of instant ship transfer: We already have it. It has already been mentioned elsewhere that upon death we are conveniently respawning on the last station or outpost we visited. It logically follows that we and our ships are stored as some sort of pattern which is then printed at the last update point. If I understand correctly, our ships have the same ability if we die in an SRV, although not with the ability to print a new SRV in its current form.
If FD decides to flesh out the logic behind player (and ship) respawn, this can lead to a few interesting additions: One might be a Sick Bay module that we might respawn in if the ship loses life support. Maybe such module has limited ship control features and we can bring the ship home that way. We could also have more advanced SRV hangers that similar to the fighter hangers can print new SRVS. Just ideas.
The suggested ability to instantly transfer ships and modules from station to station is already causing some commotion here on the forum. There is no reason we shouldn't be able to do this if our own ability to respawn is accepted as a game world feature and not just as an MMO convenience. The pattern of each of our ships must be known and stored somewhere, so printing a copy elsewhere should be simple enough. All it would take would be the right facilities and materials.
Maybe the snag is in facilities and materials. Our ability to do so upon death/ship destruction is a deal between the Pilots Federation and the rest of humankind it seems. The PF must be running the necessary facilities and paying the locals for the procedure while asking us for a cut through our insurance. But also having us be able to transfer our ships around on our own may be too much: We would have to pay the difference between a completely new ship with the modules and modifications included, and the cost of the raw materials left behind at the original location. The original ship would have to be destroyed, or we would just be able to duplicate the best configurations. Unless we accept teleportation, and then the question is why we would bother flying through space in the first place.
Maybe only a certain type of stations and a certain size and type of economy can handle the costs of running ship fabrication facilities? One could then argue that this should also be the case for "spawn points": Smaller outposts and stations might not have the facilities and materials available, so death would mean refabrication from patterns at the last well-equipped station. That would lead to "iron man zones" possibly in low security areas.
I am not against instant ship transfer if it comes with a cost and the procedure is extended to how our deaths are dealt with. It's fine to keep respawning of ourselves as near-instant, as that may be the highest priority print jobs on dedicated Pilots Federation facilities. But the ship transfers might be added to a queue and take a little while, if not necessarily as long as travelling from A to B manually. And it should cost, as I'd assume that PF is not paying for our whims and conveniences, and the locals are not willing to part with the necessary materials for free.
In short: Instant transfer is fine, as long as it is logically inserted into the game world. And while you are at it, dear FD, you could revamp the death-system a bit so it looks less like an MMO convenience and more like science fiction concept? The model I propose here will allow for "iron man zones", which will be a nice hybrid substitute for the true Iron Man Mode that the game still doesn't have. And that I'd like to see, have long hoped for an iron man mode that is just not a self-imposed one.
S
WOW. It must be helluva work to add something like "1 x Iron + 2 x Nickel + 1 x Chromium = 1 x Heatsink Ammo" to the synthesis table.
There are days when I wonder if FD is joking or if they really are such a bunch of crazy lunatics on dope.
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![[VR] Marrs](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/79/79007.jpg?1634042868){kind=avatar}
The only answer to that would be to not have ship transfer at all, which wouldn't really bother me but it seems unlikely that's going to happen. I think my solution is a good compromise and tbh saying that no one else could ever fly your ship somewhere on your behalf is also an arbitrary rule that has no real basis in in-game logic other than we haven't been able to do it before.
It is quite a nice shade of lipstick
If a ship is not capable of getting there, it can't get there with an AI pilot.
If you want to buy a barn find [insert your (Jaguar XKSS) here], and ship it across the pond then you can.
But it's gonna take TIME, a whole lot of precious time,
It's gonna take MONEY, a whole lot of spending money...
Surely the simplest and most elegant solution?
If you want to buy a barn find [insert your (Jaguar XKSS) here], and ship it across the pond then you can.
But it's gonna take TIME, a whole lot of precious time,
It's gonna take MONEY, a whole lot of spending money...
Surely the simplest and most elegant solution?
Sorry, TLDR but just nope anyway.
Here are just two things that instant ship transportation make completely pointless:
- Shipyards and Outfitting: we no longer need any shipyards or outfitting except the good ones. Location is no longer a factor. Any shipyard that doesn't stock everything or offer a discount is now completely irrelevant.
- FSD jump range: in fact just scrap FSDs altogether on any ship apart from the entry level Hauler, the Asp, DBX, and Anaconda. No one needs to ever travel anywhere in any other ship except these.
It's dumb, it'll always be dumb, and there's no justification for it other than dumbing down the game.
Slopey
Volunteer Moderator
That is confirmed for 2.2. Along with the new fixer contact who can collect/pay off bounties from anywhere.
No sense in half measures.
Everything else happens at the speed of click - refuel, rearm, repair, new outfitting, so why bother trying to institute some delay for the sake of immersion. Click the transfer button, and go get a donut. There's your delay.
You want immersion? Every passenger mission should have a chance for the one who doesn't know how to make it to the ship on time and you need to sit around and wait for his tardy carcass to show up so you can leave.
Everything else happens at the speed of click - refuel, rearm, repair, new outfitting, so why bother trying to institute some delay for the sake of immersion. Click the transfer button, and go get a donut. There's your delay.
You want immersion? Every passenger mission should have a chance for the one who doesn't know how to make it to the ship on time and you need to sit around and wait for his tardy carcass to show up so you can leave.
To 3D instant printing of ships? Not many Yaffle.... 2. ... No 1 Flimley point !
Frontier must retain believability where and when possible in such a game as Elite Dangerous.
Flimley
You just cannot be serious! How can you think so bloody small??? This isn't about the one player waiting around for nothing! Here is what is will cause:
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