2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

[mossfoot]

I can see this introducing a new meta as well. Combat ships with 2D class FSDs to increase available power and reduce weight for better optimal mass for thrusters.

Those who don't use the taxis to get around to CGs or other PVP areas will find themselves at a distinct disadvantage.

Hmmm thinking about my own complaint... Maybe when transferring the computer has to calculate whether or not it CAN reach your location first. A 2D FSD is highly limited on most ships as to where it can go, and would return with a result. "Ship cannot be transferred. Insufficient FSD range"

that could help.

 

[wavelover]

Hi new to the forum. I am not sure if this has been suggested or not. On the subject of ship transfer perhaps the devs could implement transfer by having the ship's AI nav locked thus following you to predetermined destinations. Since there will already be a npc crew member you can hire why not have a Ship AI? This could be in real time where you can see your ship flying with you or abstractly on the galaxy map. There is always the problem of the transferred ship getting interdicted by unfriendlies. A way to get around this is the ship that is nav locked could have unnecessary ship systems shut down and run silent. Your ship would then be able make it to your destination unnoticed. I think the ship would have to have a fuel scoop to do this depending on said ship range. This method seem more realistic and would not undermine the traveling aspect of the game.

 

[Wolfechu]

We'll just have to make for a really good thought-out bit of reasoning, which I see we've already got in this thread, as to why ship-transport should not be instantaneous.

Which page was that on? I must have missed it in amongst all the really badly thought out bits of reasoning

 

[Verax]

Fair point.

But Elite is a game, a fictional universe whose rules can be altered.

Amazon is in the Universe we belong.

With a different set of rules.

Otherwise we shouldn't have neither the fsd, laser torpedo shields and so on.

Havin said that, instant trasfer sound like a gameplay balance: fun against waiting a timer.

Still can't understand why a so reasonable decision is so contested by people.

They could reach the same effect by using wormhole inside the universe: maybe this solution was better but would have taken devolpment time.

The reason it's contested is because most of the players that frequent this specific forum despise PvP players-- and they see this feature as one that PvP players could directly benefit enjoyment from.

That's why these people are here struggling to manufacture a viable argument about imposing a wait time on a feature that doesn't affect them at all if they choose not to use it.

There is not one point that they've made against this feature that can stand up to a logical analysis. They're just spiteful, that's all.

 

[Weps]

People could already do that and refit when it was time to travel.

Moot argument.

Not if the availability of the original FSD prevents it. Not with engineered FSDs.

The argument is very much not moot.

 

[Lobstris]

What about logic , immersion and ballance

Privita! No! if you go down that route, you'll just get a list of other areas where Elite is inconsistent (and it's a long list. ) and told 'well if you accepted those compromises...'

Save yourself!

 

[Wyaston Hypatia]

Unfortunately, looking at the chorus of applause 'InstaShip™ brought to you by 'SpaceMagic™ (just add water!) has received on Reddit and certain Facebook groups, we may really just be a vocal minority. :/

That may be so - but we are quite a disparate minority. There are many here who don't usually post on this type of thread. There are white knights and black ones. Mods. The breadth of those raising concerns should at least make FD have a good second think about this instant mechanism.

 

[Deadspin]

i really hope your just trolling ...
refueling isn t instant if you aren t in a station ... far from it.
and why would you want to wait for repares/rearming ? its not like it will shrink anything from the game... unlike magic teleportation or wormhole speed delivery

I'm not trolling at all. I'm just sick and tired of the player base thinking it gets to pick and choose which elements of realism they'd like incorporated into the game. Scooping fuel may not be instantaneous but I can refill all 20 tons of fuel on my Anaconda in a single click. I can rearm all 5000+ rounds of MC ammo in a single click, all 100+ missiles in a single click for an operation that, logically, would take almost an hour to accomplish in real life analogies.

Theoretically, the ships could be on station already and through a middleman you have effectively sold the ship in whatever station you left it in and established ownership of a new ship in the current station. Who cares? Why anyone cares is beyond me. This is a video game, not a real life simulation or even an accurate space simulation (Beyond the galaxy map at least, which is probably the best attempt at accurate portrayal of the stars in quite some time).

I mean, hell, if you want realism. You should be burned to a crisp while you sit in the coronal ejection of a sun, sipping hydrogen. Any arguments for more realism are daft.

 

[Privata]

Things that are instantaneous in this game:

-Refueling
-Repairing
-Rearming
-Getting out of and into new ships on pads hundreds of meters apart.

Stop crying for immersion when it's already lost.

Immersion has been core , and is in 2.1 and every update.

Repairing , refueling , rearming are minor things that could be done in 10mins real time.
Getting in and out of pads however... thats a placeholder for until we can walk.

This transfer of ships is not a stretch , its outright impossible.
Why not do it when the panther clipper gets added and have panther clippers randomly spawn at stations to simulate ship transfer?

We dont need full realism , we need immersion.
Just pay lip service to the idea its real , thats all we need.

This is not a jump of 1KM , or 2LY this is a multiple tone titan being transfered over thousands of thousands of LYs with no fiction justification...

the engineers had an inuniverse reason , everything else does... but this is stupid.
Its like the wierd boxes we find on planets that are present for no reason , only... gameplay and ballance ruining

 

[Verax]

=Yaffle;4384158]But they did need to think, plan, and work out where to refit. Now it's just push a button, done. This reduces game strategy. Heading out to Jaques in the hope of refitting every A class module could be a challenge.

That's really all this is about. Your lot is afraid this feature will eliminate your little safe haven at Jacques.

I wouldn't even be opposed to them blocking ship transfers to Jacques if it would be the pacifier you all need for now. Of course, I don't really think that should happen.

 

[Yaffle]

The reason it's contested is because most of the players that frequent this specific forum despise PvP players-- and they see this feature as one that PvP players could directly benefit enjoyment from.

That's why these people are here struggling to manufacture a viable argument about imposing a wait time on a feature that doesn't affect them at all if they choose not to use it.

There is not one point that they've made against this feature that can stand up to a logical analysis. They're just spiteful, that's all.

No, there is plenty of logical reasons here. My main gripe is that this breaks the very laws of the Elite Universe, the fact it can be used as a tool for griefing or exploiting is just a sideshow.

There has been no logical lore related argument to explain how it could work.

3-D print it - nope, or every station should be able to sell every ship it could berth
Teleport it - nope, or why do we need to move cargo
Hire one - why can't I just hire one without owning one already?

Taking time to get from A to B sits with the logic and rules of the Elite Universe. I can even make a case for low range ships to be transported using a capital ship or something, that all sits within the lore of the game and how it all works.

At a basic level, how will Drew be able to factor this into his new novel? Our hero is stuck at an outpost with an un-repairable FSD. He wails, as he can't chase the villain who has made off with his true love. Or maybe he could just teleport in his spare ship.

 

[mossfoot]

If we get Instant transfer and its explained that it's a 3d printing thing then all station need to be like Jameson Memorial to have all the parts necessary... that to would be a time saver, no need to travel to get ships and parts... ( I don't want Insta transfer )

It won't be explained that way, because it sounds dumb if nothing else (rule of cool).

its no different than ejecting and instantly appearing in your ship in dock. Sure, only seconds have passed on the clock, but the in game assumption is that you were rescued, taken to the station, checked out by a doctor to make sure your RemLok worked properly, signed off on your insurance forms, had a beer at the bar, and then got in your ship. (Beer optional)

yes, in practice you have players dying and rushing back into the same combat zone over and over, but game mechanics and game world lore do not and cannot mesh up 100%.

Look at Mass Effect, books vs games. They have shields and medigel in the books but they do NOT work the same as you see in game. The books would have been really dumb if they made those game mechanics work exactly the same as the game.

 

[WR3ND]

Privita! No! if you go down that route, you'll just get a list of other areas where Elite is inconsistent (and it's a long list. ) and told 'well if you accepted those compromises...'

Save yourself!

Let's see... where did I leave it...

Ever heard of the straw that broke the camels back? What about two wrongs not making a right? If Billy jumped off a bridge? How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?

I'd prefer much fewer immersion breaking "conveniences" in general as well. I understand I'm not the only one playing this game though and that it isn't made just for me. That doesn't mean I want the rug pulled out from under me either though.

...

—https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...by-2-2/page8?p=4380537&viewfull=1#post4380537

 

[Verax]

Immersion has been core , and is in 2.1 and every update.

Repairing , refueling , rearming are minor things that could be done in 10mins real time.
Getting in and out of pads however... thats a placeholder for until we can walk.

This transfer of ships is not a stretch , its outright impossible.
Why not do it when the panther clipper gets added and have panther clippers randomly spawn at stations to simulate ship transfer?

We dont need full realism , we need immersion.
Just pay lip service to the idea its real , thats all we need.

This is not a jump of 1KM , or 2LY this is a multiple tone titan being transfered over thousands of thousands of LYs with no fiction justification...

the engineers had an inuniverse reason , everything else does... but this is stupid.
Its like the wierd boxes we find on planets that are present for no reason , only... gameplay and ballance ruining

Immersion is subjective.

What you really need probably is to go outside sometimes.

 

[Parmo]

If one flies to the core, that is a long way, without getting to repair facility, what happens?
Doesn't your ship suffer hull integrity loss? And more? How much loss occurs going to Jaques Station?
So the instant ship transfer. Does the 'transported' ship arrive in pristine condition as you left it at its last storage location?

 

[Yaffle]

That's really all this is about. Your lot is afraid this feature will eliminate your little safe haven at Jacques.

I wouldn't even be opposed to them blocking ship transfers to Jacques if it would be the pacifier you all need for now. Of course, I don't really think that should happen.

I'm not there, but anyone who made that trip in a 10LY FdL to shoot other players would get my respect for the sheer effort and willpower needed to do it. Hopping there in a super Anaconda to magic an uber FdL, not so much.

 

[askavir]

Like others have said, wouldn't the "timer" simply be one extra field with a timestamp? Transfer the asset instantly. Lock the asset from use until server time > timestamp. This is only checked when you enter the shipyard UI. I really have a hard time believing this would break the servers.

Of course it wouldn't break the servers.

FD's devs aren't high school students doing some project for fun in Microsoft Access.

The amount of data were talking about is completely trivial in this scope. There are things as database indexes and replication which makes fetching a user's stuff completely trivial in such low quantities (and I honestly doubt FD is using relational databases in the first place for user inventory), and several very fast in-memory cache solutions such as memcache, redis and varnish to prevent the databases from having to be queried in the first place. Also, running timers aren't updated between server and client every second, that would be stupid, the client would fetch the ships with the "release" timestamps and its the client that shows the decreasing timers, only contacting the server in the end to validate the timestamp before releasing the ship to prevent tampering.

Trying to make this a "server load issue" is very far fetched, to say the least.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

I'm not trolling at all. I'm just sick and tired of the player base thinking it gets to pick and choose which elements of realism they'd like incorporated into the game. Scooping fuel may not be instantaneous but I can refill all 20 tons of fuel on my Anaconda in a single click. I can rearm all 5000+ rounds of MC ammo in a single click, all 100+ missiles in a single click for an operation that, logically, would take almost an hour to accomplish in real life analogies.

Theoretically, the ships could be on station already and through a middleman you have effectively sold the ship in whatever station you left it in and established ownership of a new ship in the current station. Who cares? Why anyone cares is beyond me. This is a video game, not a real life simulation or even an accurate space simulation (Beyond the galaxy map at least, which is probably the best attempt at accurate portrayal of the stars in quite some time).

I mean, hell, if you want realism. You should be burned to a crisp while you sit in the coronal ejection of a sun, sipping hydrogen. Any arguments for more realism are daft.

Its more about beliavablity then realism, a hard and very subjectiv to track down thing. So I can understand your point, tough it shouldn't be hard to understand that some think a Corvette with 1Ly jumprange making 22'000 LY in one second is maybe a bit too far to be put in a kind of believable construct. Surley it cant be hard to understand why refueling and that isn't quite the same for some, no?

 

[Barking_Mad]

The Reddit poll is not as nuanced as this but FWIW:

http://www.         .me/11043565/r

 

[Verax]

To be fair, they aren't going to say 'oh yeah! we've got major dissent going on in our playerbase' at a press event? And that's even if the people reading these forums represent the playerbase, which they don't. People like me, I've got a lifetime pass, Frontier have got their money, therefore I'm not really relevant. What they need is all the people put off by the 'grind' of Elite to come back for instant gratification, and start buying ship skins, and having the confidence to pre-order season 3 again, hence the move to make the entire galaxy CQC.

(Yes, yes, at least two of my opposition forum warriors are now reaching forward to make a post about hyperbole. )

Lol, I want what you're smoking.