2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

[MadDogMurdock]

sadly based on some comment here : yes
because "my time is precious you know "

they even "dare" say that elite dangerous, a space sim, who is all about how big space is: have "needless travel grind" ...

also

is Sandro Sammarco the same guy who made kinect star wars ? or if the one on frontier dev team a different one ?

I honestly don't want to get banned so we'd best not comment on individuals.

I don't follow outside the game closely enough to know exactly who is responsible for what but there does seem to be a large disconnect between the design of certain gameplay elements and what I perceive to be the core 'ethos' of Elite.

Features seem to be developed in total isolation with no thought about what is already in place or what impact they will have leading to many contradictions and jarring collapses of a coherent universe.

ED is still the best game out there, but needs a bit more design coherence to achieve greatness.

 

[Metharius]

i think its sandro and here is his argument ....

"Now, I know some people might think, well that's ya know, it's a bit gamey, but it is a game, and I think the pros of having un-interrupted gameplay outweigh the cons of getting the transport there straight-away." Sandro Sammarco

 

[Privata]

Well, maybe tens of thousands of others spent tens of euro to have it watered down.

BTW, it seems that large majority of your problems with ship transfer can be easily solved. Simply stop playing this PowerPlay non-sense and go to Solo. Voila - problem solved.

And what about lore (fanfic does not count)
I like powerplay , yeah its simple... but I like it.

Just remembered does anyone have info on EG union changing what EG stands for in game? because a faction called EG is nearly as silly as ship transfer

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Same crowd that want supercruise to be shorter, jump ranges to be massively increased and NPCs to be static fodder to be wiped out by trade ships. It's seriously threatening the longevity of the game when FD begin catering so heavily to the arcade casuals.

Ozram, please don't keep laying the blame at the feet of the casuals. As I said, I am definitely a casual (lucky if I even get 3 hours on any given night....and usually only 1-2 hours), & I was perfectly happy with the overall pace of the game (as it reminded me of the good old days of Elite 1-3, & other Open World Sandbox Games).

From some of the posts I read here, the people that seek Instant Gratification are also usually those who seem to be able to put more than 40 hours a week into the game-equivalent to a full time job-but who believe themselves entitled to much more rapid progression as a result.

For my part, I would probably be able to bring myself around to the idea of making ship transfer instantaneous *if* there were other significant limits-beyond cost-placed on it. A cool down period after each transfer *and* a max range limit, based on the max range of the ship being transferred, would suffice.

 

[Don Alvarez]

Try arriving late for a flight and see if the plane waits for you...

I was thinking more of cruise ships. They wait. For a bit, anyway, and then you'll find yourself floating home.

You just cannot be serious! How can you think so bloody small??? This isn't about the one player waiting around for nothing! Here is what is will cause:

Oh I'm dead serious. You view having to traipse all through Leroy Rui's ports looking for that elusive 7A distributor as a good thing. Me, I'd rather spend more time doing other things than jumping around looking for modules. That's not small thinking, its truth. For every implementation, one camp will love it, the other hates it and thinks its stupid. Gaming breaks immersion, but too much immersion breaks games.

 

[Boomer Kay]

Excellently argued. No disputing your well reasoned refutations. I imagine you want a game where just as much thought is put into it as was just put into your post.

Maybe you put a bit more effort into your posts first.
There was nothing to argue, just to clarify and the clarification is a triple "no".

 

[Eymerich]

Say me who has all my ships in alioth wanted to prevent the spread of federal goverments into a boder system in a remot alliance system.

Today I would have to look at my assets and work out witch one do I use for this mission.
Do get there slow , but with a good combat ship? or get there faster with a decent ship? or very fast with a ''bad'' ship?

Based on what I picked I would have a different advantage or handicap on the field.

Ships like the DBS and ASP scout are made for this situation.
Now they are just cheap exploration ships.

It made everyone have a different loadout and think about what they are doing to an extent.

Now this will not be the case , beyond having a tiny price to pay.

Got your point.

While I can't share your vision, at least I can understand why for you the new instant effect is not a good feature.

 

[VerticalBlank]

If Braben knew what his underlings were doing to his game he'd be spinning in his.... luxurious office chair.

This is a serious point actually. I touched on it a bit back, but it got lost in this firehose of a thread. I am seriously beginning to doubt whether Braben realises what damage is being done to his vision here. It's like he and Sandro are on totally different pages.

 

[Lobstris]

If you all want it to be realistic it should take hours to refuel and days to repair

Again, see: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...r-Nay/page39?p=4384274&viewfull=1#post4384274

 

[ThatFuzzyTiger]

So 'complex' missions, chained/branching missions and missions with persistence are all more than a little tricky to do...

The only ones in that list that matter are persistent ones which would be the CG's, and they're put in by the devs as and when required. "Complex" missions are a case of IF>THEN, ditto for chained and branching (presuming they don't bug spectacularly), all of those are merely a matter of incrementing the mission lookup server-side that's attached to the pilot if they "pass" the conditions

 

[MadDogMurdock]

It adds no real gameplay value. That entire "immersion" argument is like the "kill all real points" point. My commander hasn't clipped his toenails for 9 month now.. how immersion breaking.

It's either time or money and they took the easier convertible currency.

If you want a delay: http://www.online-stopwatch.com/countdown-timer/
Just set a timer and don't use the ship til it's run out.

The gameplay values it adds are called strategy, planning, and tactics.
These are the things that generally separate great games with longevity from the rest.

Choice of ship is the most important aspect of the game. Removing any need to ever compromise on that removes a lot of gameplay.

The 'don't use it' argument is weak.

 

[Metharius]

I honestly don't want to get banned so we'd best not comment on Sandro.
Isn't Powerplay his baby as well?

i dont know, but i really liked powerplay ....until i found out you could do it even in solo mode ...(that s cheating for me but nevermind ....)

 

[Privata]

i think its sandro and here is his argument ....

(does he know the game is marketed as space sim ? [uhh]

Oh dear... that does look bad...

But , in his defence he is credited as Front-End Design
So he did not lead the project... I mean its a bad game (sw kinect) but at least it did not have the vong in it lol

 

[c00ky1970]

Based on how the menu system is realised everyone wanting a delay be it 5 min or 30 min will be stuck at that menu option for 5 mins or 30 mins watching the lovely spinning triangles of doom whilst they wait for the "realistic" delay in having a shop transported.

thats really immersive isn't it?

If it is really that important to you, buy an egg timer and set it off as you click the transfer ship and don't do anything for that 5 mins. Or if you are even more hard core flip it a further 5 times to give you 30 mins of apparent delay.

regardless of this apparent need by some to experience a delay how does it affect gameplay? In my opinion it allows you to consolidate multiple ships to one location so you can then specialise ship load outs. It means that some dedicated person who has put in the hours flying to Jacques can then call up his mining T9 and do something else in that location. Note it will cost a bucketload of money so you won't be flipping all ships to such a far flung location unless you are stupidly rich. If you are it will give you something to spend your money on.

the argument over flying a Sidey to X and then importing you top of the range A rated FDL is a so what, in either event you pay money and then use it, or pay money, do nothing for the transfer time and then use it.

People seem to be under this mis-apprehension that whilst you wait you can exit the menu, launch and do other things. You have no capability to do that at the moment, and I don't see this game ever offering you that.

this is a quality gaming time feature which is brilliant, and a minor enhancement in comparison to the juicy bits about ship launched fighters and NPC crew.

 

[Cmdr Cheese Wedge]

Guess I'll be forever exploring in solo if this is implemented as is.

It's just plain dumb.

 

[Kled7]

So one thing i see argued in this thread is the concept of "well that person that has the FDL will be able to instantly get their FDL out at jaques, it will create a whole new meta!!" Realize this is not an argument against INSTANT ship transfer, this is an argument against ship transfer in general. Realize that if ship transfer took as long as it takes to reasonably jump, if i got out to Jaques in my super anaconda, then called an FDL out, lets say it takes 20 hours. I log off for the night, when i log back in the next day i have my FDL.

The only argument that stands up is that it just doesn't make sense. From a simulation perspective, i agree, it make very little sense.

From a game play perspective, it is fantastic. Think of that person who logs in 3 or 4 times a week. This totally helps that person out. They can sit down on Friday night and just go do what they want.

Keeping that in mind, here is my argument and suggestion.

For every hour that you are logged out of the game you get a "ship transfer time" credit. Every hour you play in the game removes some of that credit. So those people who are logged in often don't get instant transfer, but some lower time frame. Those people that log in a few times a week have that big jump on there first night back playing where they can call there ship.

The idea i am thinking about is is similar to "rested XP" for those people that play a lot, ship transfer will never be instant, so those that play a little, they will have a day or two a week of instant ship transfer. Its a good balance between what i think FD was trying to accomplish and the "it just doesn't make sense" argument.

 

[Wolfechu]

Based on how the menu system is realised everyone wanting a delay be it 5 min or 30 min will be stuck at that menu option for 5 mins or 30 mins watching the lovely spinning triangles of doom whilst they wait for the "realistic" delay in having a shop transported.

I don't think, even in the darkest, craziest depths of this thread, anyone ever suggested this. The whole point of transferring ships, with or without a delay, is it's not the ship you're in that you're transferring.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

i think its sandro and here is his argument ....

(does he know the game is marketed as space sim ? [uhh]

It is marketed as game, in fact massive multiplayer online game. None of Elite games have been "space sims".

 

[Boomer Kay]

The gameplay values it adds are called strategy, planning, and tactics.
These are the things that generally separate great games with longevity from the rest.

Choice of ship is the most important aspect of the game. Removing any need to ever compromise on that removes a lot of gameplay.

The 'don't use it' argument is weak.

That's "color sorting your socks" level strategy.
And it's not even removed, since you have to pay a price, which does require the same level of planning as a time delay does.

To be more precise.. at the moment it's a bit more strategic but any form of ship transfer will simplify that quite a bit. Not past the point of me never flying another ship than the corvette, though.

I've explained how to play the "immersion" game already: call ship at end of gaming session, log out, use next day -> problem solved, so yea, I'm getting a bit tired of being confronted with the same non-issues all over.

 

[Cmdr Cheese Wedge]

Based on how the menu system is realised everyone wanting a delay be it 5 min or 30 min will be stuck at that menu option for 5 mins or 30 mins watching the lovely spinning triangles of doom whilst they wait for the "realistic" delay in having a shop transported.

thats really immersive isn't it?

If it is really that important to you, buy an egg timer and set it off as you click the transfer ship and don't do anything for that 5 mins. Or if you are even more hard core flip it a further 5 times to give you 30 mins of apparent delay.

regardless of this apparent need by some to experience a delay how does it affect gameplay? In my opinion it allows you to consolidate multiple ships to one location so you can then specialise ship load outs. It means that some dedicated person who has put in the hours flying to Jacques can then call up his mining T9 and do something else in that location. Note it will cost a bucketload of money so you won't be flipping all ships to such a far flung location unless you are stupidly rich. If you are it will give you something to spend your money on.

the argument over flying a Sidey to X and then importing you top of the range A rated FDL is a so what, in either event you pay money and then use it, or pay money, do nothing for the transfer time and then use it.

People seem to be under this mis-apprehension that whilst you wait you can exit the menu, launch and do other things. You have no capability to do that at the moment, and I don't see this game ever offering you that.

this is a quality gaming time feature which is brilliant, and a minor enhancement in comparison to the juicy bits about ship launched fighters and NPC crew.

No you would access ship transfer through the UI and it would be timer based, once accepted you'd go about your business is usual.
You receive an e-mail message to confirm your ship has arrived at the starport you requested your transfer from.