I think there are more reasons than that, but I don't want to derail this lovely and informative thread by going into them
2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?
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I think there are more reasons than that, but I don't want to derail this lovely and informative thread by going into them
Yup. This is why we must take a stand right now. This truly is a decision point for the future of the game.
Can't rep more but strongly agree here. This is very frustrating that it is even being suggested on the back of interviews with DB about his interest and defence of realism within fantasy.
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As others point out though, the worst part is it will shatter the balance mechanics of the game. In one fell swoop this goes arcade. [sour][sad]
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thank god music can t be heard in space
right ?
Picture as the canopy shatters and your powerplant shuts down, suddenly your speakers blip with the sound of the radio crackling into life... and then...
https://youtu.be/YJVmu6yttiw?t=26 - This. This is the last thing you hear before you're confronted by the insurance rebuy screen...
Yeah... I hate how there are only like 20 NPCs in supercruise and 60 or so in RESs...
Why not make the NPCs more smart , but have less of them. and make the police very good in high sec systems?
Oh yes indeed are they overpowered...which is why the decision from on high to nerf the original 2.1 NPC's is so baffling; at least those guys had a chance against me
Seriously, the decision to nerf them back to darn near 2.0 levels is rooted in exactly the same logic that is bringing us to insta travel, and the primary reason I always chuckle whenever I hear about the logical fallacy of the slippery slope argument; NPC's were nerfed because they were too hard for the average player to cope with. Travel will be nerfed because its a problem for the average player. Other features in the future will be nerfed for exactly the same reason, to appeal to those whose interest in playing this game is only casual.
it kind of remind of WoW's history, nerf everything, make everything accessible to everyone and here is the result:
http://imgur.com/a/NnkFG in their forum there are still person asking to lower the difficulty of raids, give more reward etc...
exept that ED is a space sim game. so i thought juts like in EvE online (who even after over 10 year: he is still "casual free"²²) it would not really happend because who would buy a space sim game if they don t like the genre in the 1st place?
but yet again, if by adding this feature they are hoping it will bring more player, they are barking up the wrong tree.
It will be as relevant as if CCP said: "ok no more loss of the ship once destroyed" ...
it will just kill the game, nothing more. sure some player may like it ("my multi billion ship will not disapear ! hurray!") but in the long run ... everything will be destroyed for thee sake of convenience.
and in the forum some would come and say: "but you can still destroy it yourself if you want to stay in the old way[wacky]" just like here, where some are saying your aren t force to use it or give you a self timer.
(this is an online multiplayer game, this argument is invalid because it only work in single player game just like the fact that you can t give yourself 1 billion cr even if you could if it was 100% solo experience.)
edit:²²i have friend playign the game verry "casualy".here i m refering to the casual mindset who ask for everything to be affordable for him, the narcissic casual. the one saying "my time is precious", "i can t do this it require to much time and i have other thing to do therefore do something so that i can fit into my game schedule" etc ...
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What in oblivion is that?!
Is that the thargoid war cry?
Indeed, I am beginning to wonder if Braben and Sandro are in fact speaking to each other, the disconnect between their pronouncements this week has been so huge.
Braben really needs to wake up and realise what is going on. Then give certain people the old heave-ho.
2.3 will give players credits on death
Agree, not sure what's going to happen, or if I'll be around to see it reach the final arcade solution. It was fun while it lasted though.
Agree, not sure what's going to happen, or if I'll be around to see it reach the final arcade solution. It was fun while it lasted though.
Whatever they end up doing, I just hope they will find a way to make it make sense! Even how we respawn after death at the moment doesn't really make sense. I'm glad we do, though! If instant transfers are part of the same logic-chain, whatever they end up doing I hope they take it to the full extent and make sure it fits in the game universe.
Right now it looks a bit scary.
SThe best.Agree, not sure what's going to happen, or if I'll be around to see it reach the final arcade solution. It was fun while it lasted though.
I mentioned elsewhere, that I get the impression something has changed within Frontier regarding Elite. No idea why or what, but there have been quite a few little tells...just not enough to add up to anything concrete or useful.
Yup. MMO's and most of us presumably have been around long enough now to know that promises that we'll love the more accessible gameplay, we'll love the convenience options, lead to the same thing over and over again. Destroying the soul of the game. It's not really hyperbole to warn against this as a general trend when gaming is now littered with examples of MMO's this has happened to.
In fairness, they have limited that issue to some degree. It's again that problem between giving people something which has a lot of plus-sides (a Python that can now outrun a Cobra is not something I'd have ever imagined) there has to be significant reins there. I still think the problem is the Engineers requires a particular type of gaming which doesn't suit everyone but everyone naturally wants the rewards. If you take it slow, plan it out and don't over-focus, it isn't too bad on its current set up. But yes, like I said, I would not pretend for a moment it's perfect.
I really don't agree with that. For me, the whole idea of ship transportation as I saw it before the announcement was a long term strategy. You have 2 or more ships. Without a sidewinder, or selling one ship, moving your bases becomes difficult. I was in Sol, I'm now stationed near Farseer in Decait for obvious reasons. I did the old selling my smaller ship, moving to a new station and building up a new one there. To me, the point of this was so you could make occasional moves of your stored ship(s) so it doesn't limit players to one area. Being Elite I ALWAYS thought there would be a tag to this - not cash, realism. I expected if I wanted the luxury of moving my second, third, forth ship around the universe, that wouldn't be cheap and it wouldn't be fast as it's a non-essential factor. Moving two ships would be fine if it didn't feel a bit of a game-shunt to have to buy a sidewinder to do it. It felt it needed something to make that a little slicker.
My point is this was never an essential game element. It's a bonus to move a second ship really, but a good bonus for the game and player. You can ferry move an unused ship. Now if this meant you couldn't do anything while it was being shipped, that would be a game changer. But you're not stranded. You still exist. With a ship - the ship you felt best suited you while you made your move. So you're not left twiddling your thumbs. And if you DON'T want to be left twiddling your thumbs, in most cases, move it yourself!
Yes, not all cases, but you aren't being delimited, because it's a bonus feature, not a key one. You can exist in Elite, as many do, if nearly everyone does for a certain period of time, with one ship. Taking time for that ship to move creates a cost to the player, means they have to consider their own strategy in world (do I wait at the station it's going to? Do I pop to Sol for some fun while that's being shipped? Do I do an upgrade in this ship or get what I need to upgrade the other?) The consequences to making the move has benefits to the player as it forces him to consider his role in Elite while it's moving. It adds to the game, it adds to the game spirit, it adds to the universe.
Personally, if it was me, I'd have planned it the other way round. You SEND the ship on from the station it was parked in. So it travels while you do. In that sense you could even insta-ship without it damaging the immersion. It would take as long as it takes you to get there!
You have to face that SOMEONE is going to be imposed here. If you're not imposed by this move, then I am imposed. Someone loses out. You lost out (so far on the Engineers). The mechanic is imposed on you. That's life. I would rather we were all happy, but someone will have to.
But the human condition is constant. We fight for what we can't get, we take for granted what we can. You can bet the person who has had to graft for his Corvette will appreciate it more than the person who has Robigo'd his money as fast as he can. Give people insta-teleport, something which makes things simple for expansion but makes no sense to a game that has always made sure it was honest to the simulator, you actually take something away from the game.
Elite has people literally spending months to get the center lol. It's not a game that gifts for simplicity. It has an edge. Whether your hardcore or not, you don't have it easy.
The question of casuals/hardcore is a murky one too. I suspect (and this is VERY broad untested assumptions) that many casuals operate with one ship, maybe a back up now and then, not a range of A-rated ships. I could be very wrong. You could argue that ship moving is a mechanic for those who run fleets or more than one ship, which could be argued is the more hardcore crowd. That's not to say that makes this a "hardcore" mechanic and must cater to "hardcore". I'm not actually sure what hardcore is. Am I hardcore? I potter around in Solo mostly, with a Python and a Viper. I'm a Master combat, reasonable trader. I don't play it every night, nor do I really participate in CG. Am I hardcore just because I have an interest in the game? Personally I don't think this casual/hardcore distinction is relevant. The bottomline is ensuring that FDev don't make changes to the mechanic that dilute the game for all that they'll be hardpushed to wind back.
Just some thoughts to consider. I don't expect to change your mind, I'm just offering everyone really some ideas to mull over.
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The statement is at odds with most of the recent development. I believe Braben is looking at the game through rose tinted glasses. I cannot blame him. I do to. I really like elite. But the current ship transport model is entirely at odds with this. Much of RNGineers is at odds with it. I don't actually mind it that much? But the multiplicative nature of RNG on RNG on RNG is very much at odds.
The game has a vision, that much is obvious. I cannot tell however if the game is actually being built to that vision. Or someone else's.
Ship transport is sorely needed. Instant is fine if that doesn't really invalidate or settle at odds with the depth and life he really wants to see. Right now? It stands in stark contrast. It's like the team has two masters. It is confusing.
On the one hand, I don't want to wait eleventy hours for a ship to turn up 300ly, on the other? Instant is just so cheesy and makes a mockery of distance. Is there even a middle ground? Maybe that's why it's instant. Because it always had to be, even though it probably shouldn't (because this just invalidates Brabens own comments).
I get how instant is really valuable. I also realise this has very very big and game breaking connotations.
It'd be a pity if Stellar Forge became the most sophisticated game lobby ever developed.
Just got home, where I could vote. ( Poll doesn't work on mobile ).
Voted a simple, flat out NO btw. I wish this announcement came very early in April. Then this guy at least could breathe a sigh of relief and say " Good one! " after realizing this is all a big joke.
Make a stand how? Whinge and kvetch on this forum? Haven't you noticed FD doesn't really pay attention here? Didn't you notice the sh*tshow after the last beta when overwhelming feedback was completely ignored? It went live anyway. And so will this.
Only one thing to do boys and girls. Abuse the hell out of it when it drops; everyone else will. PP, CG's, PVP blockades.. the possibilities are endless. Forget this is probably the most confusing fumble FD has made yet. Pick it up, run with it, and after spiking it in the $$$ zone, beat it like a red headed stepchild. Enjoy! FD knows what we want.
Only way to take any meaningful stand is to close your wallet btw. We'll see..
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